Does WWE resent its fans?

[Old Jack Burton]

This question is sort of hovering in the background of a lot of threads and discussions on this board and many others, so let's just have it.

Is there a resentment in the WWE brass towards the fans wanting and liking certain things they haven't "told" them to like?

Exhibit A:



among many others.

[angryfan]

I wouldn't say resent, but it's the "you'll eat what I cook and you'll like it" logic that parents use, or at least mine did.

Outside of desperation that lead to the Attitude Era, Vince and company have always been this way. Unless they are desperate enough to go out of their comfort zone, then the answer is "I want this to happen, and I want this guy to be popular and make us money. Here are steps 1 thourh 27, have him do these exactly".

Back in the day, the guys had enough seasoning where they could work with that and use their own abilities to achieve it.

Today, most people haven't had that seasoning, so all they can do is paint by numbers. Some will go outside of the lines and it will get popular and make the company money, but they will all wind up in angles designed to remind them of where their place is.

As for the fans,I wil say that at least TNA had the decency to say out loud to a crowd that we are "cast members" and therefore have to react a certain way for the show to work. WCW would pipe in the reactions they wanted fans to have. WWE, I fully believe, thinks this way but just hasn't come out and said it. They do, ahem, "enhance" things on Smackdown, so that's out of the WCW playbook.

[Bub (BLM)]

Bryan's "NO"gimmick is proof of that. Instead of running with something the fans were enjoying, they yanked it away because it wasn't what they (WWE) wanted.

[Red Impact]

If they didn't want people to like someone, they would't put them on tv or make merchandise for them.

[Amazing Kitsune]

If they really resented the fans that much, they could have Zach Rider'd the guy. He's a two time world champion and a focal point of the show. He has been for a couple of years now.

I don't think they resent the fans. I think they resent what they believe to be a vocal minority. That's probably how they justify it in regards to some of the decisions they make. I don't think there is one person in the back, however, who thinks that Daniel Bryan really isn't over.

There are other examples, of course and sometimes it does seem like sometimes they punish guys for getting over on their own.

But the fans? They listen to them. The fans crapped on Tensai, so they demoted him. The fans supported Daniel Bryan, so they pushed him. The fans supported both Orton and Cena to be the stars of their generation, and the WWE did it. The fans pushed them to rehire Matt Hardy, and they did it. The fans pushed them to rehire DB after the tie incident, and they did it. The fans pushed them to make CM Punk a top guy and they did it. The fans pushed them to give Ryback a shot at the top, and they did it. The fans pushed them to demote Khali from his superpush way back when, and the did it. The fans were behind Edge getting a shot at the top, and the WWE did it. The fans have been behind Big E, so they WWE supported him. The fans have not been behind Curtis Axel in any real way, so they have demoted him. The list can go on and on.

There are more examples of the WWE listening to the fans than not. Does it always turn out perfect? Absolutely not. Do they try? I think so.

Just because the WWE doesn't do -exactly- what a certain segment of the fans wants doesn't mean that they're not listening. They just can't please everybody.

[kingoftheindies]

I don't think the WWE resents the fans in cases like Bryan, but I do think there is some resentment when certain things don't work how they want. I honestly believe that last year the WWE wanted to build Bo Dallas to win the IC title at Mania, and were shocked that the fans didn't give two shits about him. I also think they resented the fact that Mason Ryan couldn't get over... hell he couldn't get over in NXT either (though having him up against Big Cass and Enzo made it tough).

The big issue with both guys and girls is a lot of people still have an idea of a prototype look but don't put thought into the fact that you need a personality to go with that look. Now at least in NXT they are starting to get away from that, but there is still an old school mentality with a lot of people.

[Chip]

I think in part they do. I think they look at the talent they have and try to make top guys out of performers they perceive to have the most mainstream appeal, the guys they can put on daytime TV shows or PPV posters and have them not look out of place with movie stars. When the crowd doesn't want that it's as if we are stopping them from expanding in popularity and they resent that part.

[kevin]

No and the idea that they do is so stupid that its absurd to waste any time thinking about. Especially in regards to Daniel Bryan who has been booked as a big deal from the moment he came back from being fired. Unless your example of Daniel Bryan is something people don't want being showed down our throats then your argument is just completely wrong in a different way.

[mrbananagrabber]

Let's see, do they have John Cena and HHH go on Twitter and brag about "working the marks?"

THAT is contempt for the fans.

[angryfan]

Nov 27, 2013 13:04:57 GMT -5 Chip said:

I think in part they do. I think they look at the talent they have and try to make top guys out of performers they perceive to have the most mainstream appeal, the guys they can put on daytime TV shows or PPV posters and have them not look out of place with movie stars. When the crowd doesn't want that it's as if we are stopping them from expanding in popularity and they resent that part.

Pretty much. It's the New Coke theory, only in this case, "shut up and drink it".

Vince became successful and wealthy by micromanaging his performers. He feels that he "made" the characters that boomed and that it's his genius that drives things. Makes sense, given his purview and surroundings. No one will tell him he's wrong.

He doesn't WANT to be a wrestling company, he wants to be a global entertainment company. "We make movies" was what he said back in a 1990 interview. 23 years later, and we expect something different?

He wants "movie stars", "larger than life characters" and "spectacles". He wants his "universe" to fit into that vision.

I am not a Universe who wants to watch in ring movies that are completely self contained. Continuity matters to me because I am a fan of serial novels and stories that acknowledge relationships between characters. Actors can do a movie where they are friends, then a movie where they hate each other, followed by a buddy cop sequel to the first movie.

Continuity, and long memories that lead to Vince's plans not getting the reception he wants, those are the exception in his mind and not the rule.

[Dave the Dave]

They gave Ryback a shot at the top? He got worse treatment than Bryan!

[The Ichi]

Nov 27, 2013 12:53:17 GMT -5 angryfan said:

I wouldn't say resent, but it's the "you'll eat what I cook and you'll like it" logic that parents use, or at least mine did.

Yep, it's this, basically.

And the scary thing is, they can get away with it. WWE are the only game in town these days, and Vince can push whoever he wants to push because it's all the mainstream has (or more specifically, all they can be arsed to seek out), whilst throwing internet fans a bone every now and then to keep them desperately holding on, too.

I suppose I'm just grateful that I at least like Cena a hell of a lot more than HHH.

[Amazing Kitsune]

Nov 27, 2013 13:14:36 GMT -5 Dave the Dave said:

They gave Ryback a shot at the top? He got worse treatment than Bryan!

Wrestlers go their entire careers just wishing they could get treated as "badly" by the WWE as Ryback and Daniel Bryan.

[Deleted]

Welcome to the corporate wrestling era.


I don't think that they outright resent fans as much as they're just so behind the times when it comes to what sells and what people want to see and they don't understand why people go crazy for D-Bry and don't react to Orton vs. Cena or Alberto despite those matches/guys being huge deals if they had been around 20 years ago. As long as they're making lots of $$$$ they'll continue presenting their particular vision of wrestling. If there were another promotion with a national TV deal that had any clue what they were doing I think that they could do some damage to the E, but there's not so as long as we as fans keep watching/going to the shows and buying the merch the E doesn't really care. Basically Vince used to be the ultimate risk taker and now he's older and doesn't have much reason or incentive to risk things as they pertain to his wrestling shows.

[Dave the Dave]

Nov 27, 2013 13:16:45 GMT -5 Amazing Kitsune said:

Nov 27, 2013 13:14:36 GMT -5 Dave the Dave said:

They gave Ryback a shot at the top? He got worse treatment than Bryan!

Wrestlers go their entire careers just wishing they could get treated as "badly" by the WWE as Ryback and Daniel Bryan.

Right. That still doesn't make the booking make sense.

Just because someone has it worse doesn't mean a different situation doesn't suck. The Great Depression was worse than the US. economy now but it still isn't ideal.

[Old Jack Burton]

Are there any instances of times when a wrestler was getting de-pushed or punished for being popular when they were not supposed to be?

There are certain times when I feel like the WWE knew it had to be doing a big "f*** you" to the fans, such as when Christian lost the WHC for the first time. You may insist it was done to build heel heat upon Orton, but it just screams of a deeper motivation of saying "this guy is not the guy, guys like him are not the guy, THIS is the guy, and you better like him damnit!"

It didn't help that it was done at a time when the so-called indy darlings were all rising to prominence, and it felt like the WWE was sort of putting a lot of fans in their place for placing loyalty onto someone like Christian (who isn't indy, but fits right in among them).

[xCompackx]

Nov 27, 2013 13:18:46 GMT -5 @akeem said:

Welcome to the corporate wrestling era.


I don't think that they outright resent fans as much as they're just so behind the times when it comes to what sells and what people want to see and they don't understand why people go crazy for D-Bry and don't react to Orton vs. Cena or Alberto despite those matches/guys being huge deals if they had been around 20 years ago. As long as they're making lots of $$$$ they'll continue presenting their particular vision of wrestling. If there were another promotion with a national TV deal that had any clue what they were doing I think that they could do some damage to the E, but there's not so as long as we as fans keep watching/going to the shows and buying the merch the E doesn't really care. Basically Vince used to be the ultimate risk taker and now he's older and doesn't have much reason or incentive to risk things as they pertain to his wrestling shows.

I disagree. I don't think Daniel Bryan would've had multiple matches with The Shield, beaten John Cena clean, or be in a tagteam with CM Punk if WWE didn't understand why people go crazy for him. The booking may not always reflect it, but I don't think Vince is as out of touch as people would like to believe.

[Amazing Kitsune]

Nov 27, 2013 13:23:44 GMT -5 Dave the Dave said:

Nov 27, 2013 13:16:45 GMT -5 Amazing Kitsune said:

Wrestlers go their entire careers just wishing they could get treated as "badly" by the WWE as Ryback and Daniel Bryan.

Right. That still doesn't make the booking make sense.

Just because someone has it worse doesn't mean a different situation doesn't suck. The Great Depression was worse than the US. economy now but it still isn't ideal.

It's hard to feel sorry for one person who's been solidified as a upper tier/main eventer for years now, with multiple title reigns. They've pushed Daniel Bryan hard. You really can't argue that they didn't listen to the fans. The fans wanted a DB push and they got a DB push, several of them. Memorable ones. They had him beat John Cena clean at their second biggest show of the year. Daniel Bryan has been an established guy at either Upper midcard level to main event level for about three years now, as I recall.

Ryback went from being just a buy with an eerily familiar gimmick to an upper midcard/main level guy. He's been at that level for a year now.


Did they push either of them right? That's debatable. I'd say they messed up a few times.

Did they take the fans into consideration when they decided to give these guys opportunities? Absolutely. That's one of the main reasons they were successful.

[Been burned too many times]

Nov 27, 2013 13:26:21 GMT -5 Old Jack Burton said:

Are there any instances of times when a wrestler was getting de-pushed or punished for being popular when they were not supposed to be?

[Deleted]

I don't WWE Resents fans. I just think WWE higher up's really hate it when they are wrong. Nobody likes being wrong and especially dead wrong and I'm sure most higher ups take it personally until they start seeing money which eases the pain. Then comes the faux realization of I'm a great booker if I'm willing to put my mistakes behind me and embrace I'm wrong! Then right after the realization he books ADR's latest wheel of aggression victim Dolph Ziggler and Sweet T defeating Antonio Cescaro in a singles match.