Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2013 18:53:02 GMT -5
Yes.
What sealed it for me was the botchamania where someone did a plancha into people outside the ring.
Everyone gets knocked down, Sin Cara notices a solid 2 seconds later then slowly falls over. "Yep he got me too guys!"
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Crappler El 0 M
Dalek
Never Forgets an Octagon
I'm a good R-Truth.
Posts: 58,479
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Post by Crappler El 0 M on Dec 5, 2013 19:01:37 GMT -5
He hasn't lived up to the hype. It's hard to make a big impact when you're on the sidelines. Maybe Hunico will have better luck with the gimmick. Give up the mood lighting.
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Post by JTG Fan on Dec 5, 2013 19:04:28 GMT -5
Yes. At first people overreacted to the small things, like the slight grazing of the rope in his first entrance and his minor slip on the ropes against Primo, but he quickly showed these weren't just one time incidents and the botches and matches just got worse and worse.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2013 19:09:45 GMT -5
Yes. At first people overreacted to the small things, like the slight grazing of the rope in his first entrance and his minor slip on the ropes against Primo, but he quickly showed these weren't just one time incidents and the botches and matches just got worse and worse. The grazing the ropes on the intro was nothing. Little scary, but not HA HA THIS GUY SUCKS. The slipping on the ropes for the finish, could've been Primo's fault, okay things happen. But then, Sin Cara dove to the floor and just got right the f*** up and got in the ring and went back to the rope like nothing happened. The fact that he didn't even bother selling falling to the floor, or maybe try to improvise something, that was really, really bad. He showed zero poise.
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Post by celticjobber on Dec 5, 2013 20:07:16 GMT -5
To me the gimmick is dead now and I don't see the point in them trying to continue it with another guy. I mean if they feel the gimmick has been such a flop why are they bothering? The gimmick wasn't a flop, Mistico himself was. They still sell tons of Sin Cara merch, and he's a favorite of the kiddies. And since kids most likely won't notice the difference, they can just replace the guy under the mask with someone who fits in more with WWE. Mistico supposedly has a huge ego, he's too injury prone, and can't work WWE-style. Hunico can.
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Post by Germansuplex on Dec 6, 2013 3:58:07 GMT -5
To me, the breaking point was his PPV match against Chavo Guerrero. I was really looking forward to it and it was horrible (which was, of course, also Chavo's fault).
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nate5054
Hank Scorpio
Lucky to be alive in the Chris Jericho Era
Posts: 7,016
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Post by nate5054 on Dec 6, 2013 4:37:04 GMT -5
Stopping a match because he hurt his finger was utterly pathetic. But that was his pointing finger!
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Dec 6, 2013 6:48:09 GMT -5
Yes. At first people overreacted to the small things, like the slight grazing of the rope in his first entrance and his minor slip on the ropes against Primo, but he quickly showed these weren't just one time incidents and the botches and matches just got worse and worse. The grazing the ropes on the intro was nothing. Little scary, but not HA HA THIS GUY SUCKS. The slipping on the ropes for the finish, could've been Primo's fault, okay things happen. But then, Sin Cara dove to the floor and just got right the f*** up and got in the ring and went back to the rope like nothing happened. The fact that he didn't even bother selling falling to the floor, or maybe try to improvise something, that was really, really bad. He showed zero poise. Luchadores don't sell. It's just another example of him not being used to the WWE/North American style, which is not his fault but it means he was either made to sink or swim. Basically, Sin Cara may as well have been a WCW for how they just dropped him into the middle of everything and expected him to flourish.
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Dec 6, 2013 7:29:51 GMT -5
Luchadores don't sell. It's just another example of him not being used to the WWE/North American style, which is not his fault but it means he was either made to sink or swim. Basically, Sin Cara may as well have been a WCW for how they just dropped him into the middle of everything and expected him to flourish. In WCW, he would have had people around who could work his style and could help him make the transition, Sin Cara's debut is more along the lines of a WWF Light Heavyweight division debut, where they hype him, put him on TV and expect him to be amazing but sour quickly when it turns out he can't work amazing matches with guys with little to no lucha experience and needs time to acclimatise to the WWF ring and style. They should have given him a month in developmental, a mask with eyeholes and have his first few matches on the main roster be with a heel Chavo who can work both the WWE style and Lucha, speak Spanish and is a good hand in the ring.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Dec 6, 2013 7:37:21 GMT -5
Luchadores don't sell. It's just another example of him not being used to the WWE/North American style, which is not his fault but it means he was either made to sink or swim. Basically, Sin Cara may as well have been a WCW for how they just dropped him into the middle of everything and expected him to flourish. In WCW, he would have had people around who could work his style and could help him make the transition, Sin Cara's debut is more along the lines of a WWF Light Heavyweight division debut, where they hype him, put him on TV and expect him to be amazing but sour quickly when it turns out he can't work amazing matches with guys with little to no lucha experience and needs time to acclimatise to the WWF ring and style. They should have given him a month in developmental, a mask with eyeholes and have his first few matches on the main roster be with a heel Chavo who can work both the WWE style and Lucha, speak Spanish and is a good hand in the ring. I meant he may as well have been a WCW guy brought in WWE, the way they would just expect WCW guys to immediately get it and not give them a chance. Jericho mentioned in his book how even the way heels sell is different between the two, and those are both North American promotions, never mind the difference between the US and Mexico.
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Gummydavidson
Dennis Stamp
Johnny Davidson for Prime Minister!
Posts: 3,933
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Post by Gummydavidson on Dec 6, 2013 7:53:38 GMT -5
It's a huge disappointment that we will never see Mistico vs Rey Mysterio.
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Dec 6, 2013 8:01:24 GMT -5
I meant he may as well have been a WCW guy brought in WWE, the way they would just expect WCW guys to immediately get it and not give them a chance. Jericho mentioned in his book how even the way heels sell is different between the two, and those are both North American promotions, never mind the difference between the US and Mexico. True enough, I think 95% of workers they've signed over the past 20 years would have had issues had they debuted with no time on house shows or developmental to acclimatise... But people think that it's a problem with Sin Cara because Hunico, with years of WWE developmental experience can work a lucha-ish style in a WWE ring.
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Post by kingoftheindies on Dec 6, 2013 8:46:33 GMT -5
He was fine, as long as he had an opponent that was used to his style. I think it's a bit unfair how people seemed to put all the blame on him, when his opponents could keep up. That's got nothing to do with it. Rey Mysterio, in 1997 before all the injuries, could still have a great match with anyone. Kevin Nash had good matches with Rey. Do you think Nash was fluent in Lucha Libre? Sin Cara's problem was the fact that he didn't communicate well with his opponents and botched all the time. On top of that, there's the dislocated finger incident from a few months back. In a job where guys have finished matches with torn quads, torn abdomens, broken arms, broken necks, etc., calling off your match due to a dislocated finger makes you look like you can't cut it. Yeah not speaking English (which is a bit on both parties) handicapped him quite a bit. But even Rey had been able to built up some comfort with guys in WCW before he made the move via wrestling against them in Japan and ECW. Nothing about Mistico coming in was handled right, and you combine that with him reportedly having a poor attitude and you've got a bad combo
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Post by Dave the Dave on Dec 6, 2013 8:58:54 GMT -5
Yeah. Guys have risked being able to walk for wrestling. How dare you stop wrestling because you got hurt. WE WANT TO BE ENTERTIANED! f*** YOUR WELL BEING!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2013 9:03:31 GMT -5
One thing that seems to get looked over a lot is that Sin Cara has been on the roster for well over two years at this point. Yes, skipping FCW put him at a disadvantage coming in when it came to blending in and working a more American style, but he's had plenty of time to adjust and just plain hasn't. Besides, it's not like his matches with people perfectly versed in facing luchadors, like del Rio or Hunico, are that much better than the stuff he was doing with Swagger and Sheamus.
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Post by cabbageboy on Dec 6, 2013 10:22:04 GMT -5
Sin Cara has been more of a qualitative flop than a quantitative flop. As noted from a monetary standpoint Sin Cara has been a solid addition to WWE. The gimmick sells merchandise. Mistico himself was the one who didn't transition well to WWE. The sad aspect of him tanking is that now WWE won't think outside the box at all when it comes to signing international talent. As in why bother to sign guys that can't speak English or work WWE style?
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Post by ________ has left the building on Dec 6, 2013 10:37:27 GMT -5
As someone who seen Mistico's ring work in Mexico and Japan, he had a whole lot more to offer than what he has ever done in WWE. The gimmick was doomed when Sin Cara got fast tracked to the main roster and wore the mask with limited vision. His rash of injuries didn't help his cause either. Shame that Hunico is now the new Max Moon instead of being his own man. Only in Mexico can a person inherit a previous gimmick and make it a success. WWE tried it many times will disappointing results (Max Moon, Doink, Diesel, Razor Ramon).
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Rave
El Dandy
Perpetually Bored
Posts: 8,373
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Post by Rave on Dec 6, 2013 10:44:06 GMT -5
Yeah. Guys have risked being able to walk for wrestling. How dare you stop wrestling because you got hurt. WE WANT TO BE ENTERTIANED! f*** YOUR WELL BEING! He dislocated a finger. Plus Del Rio kicked the crap out of him afterward.
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Post by Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!! on Dec 6, 2013 11:38:43 GMT -5
I think in-ring it was a little overblown personally, but the fact is, he couldn't talk (and by some accounts refused to learn how), rubbed everyone backstage the wrong way, and more important than anything else, he became injury-prone. that stuff all probably did him in a lot worse than his in-ring abilities.
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Post by I've got some bad news... on Dec 6, 2013 15:04:17 GMT -5
The good news is he can point his finger like no one else. The bad news is that was pretty much his only redeeming factor.
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