Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2013 19:25:18 GMT -5
Agreed with Punk. He's a very different guy in the world of pro wrestling, could help transcend the whole meathead/redneck stigma, while still appealing to the existing fanbase as he certainly does right now. But, that stigma is very strong, and it would take a long time to break it. WWE is trying to do it in a different way, with the whole "we're entertainment and celebrities plug shit on our shows our sets look like American Idol seeeee?" approach. I think pro wrestling is very grounded in sacrifice and ritualism, and that could appeal to a more artistic asthetic over time if given a chance.
In my case, I got away from wrestling in my late teens/early 20s and got super into music and things like that, and as I came back into wrestling I realized the art behind it all. Especially things like match structure and psychology and the concept of tension and release, things like that have influenced me and made me a much better musician. I'm a much bigger fan now than I was when I was a kid for those reasons.
Pro wrestling is a really special, unique thing, I think it gets treated as stupid and lightweight too often, to the point of cheapening it to anyone who isn't already a fan. Someone like CM Punk, that does take it seriously and has that air of "cool" around him and an awareness of what people want and how to manipulate them, could help change all that. Not overnight, but it's all about changing the culture over time.
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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Dec 5, 2013 19:25:24 GMT -5
No one individual has ever hooked new fans in the TV era. Not even Austin. Maaaaaaaybe Hogan. Definitely no one else.
Rock-n-Wrestling brought in kids in the 80s, and then Attitude played to that exact same audience, just grown up. It was never about the specific person. It was always about the show, and that it was pro wrestling. No one who doesn't watch wrestling cares who the wrestlers are. The myth that individuals bring in a new audience is, at best, a holdover from territory thinking and, at worst, a deliberate way of keeping the top bookers from getting the blame they should when things stagnate.
In any case, the real lost audience is women, especially teenagers and girls. The whole show would need a makeover to bring them in, and they're not willing to do that, so nothing's going to change.
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Post by Bear Skin Rug on Dec 5, 2013 19:28:59 GMT -5
Cesaro or Ambrose
Cesaro's feats of strength have a universal appeal, combine that with his look and he has the cool factor to translate to the young male demographic. Anyone can believe that he's an ass-kicker.
Ambrose has unique charisma.
Of course, a monster push is required to get anyone over; Cena, Hogan, and Austin would have never taken off if they weren't treated as bigger than the rest of the roster.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2013 19:45:15 GMT -5
It was already written in stone pretty much.
Punk Bryan Ziggler
Those 3 were to lead this next era IMO the fans chose them and thats what was most important to who captivates new fans...but noooope so the next guy that does it is going to be chosen by WWE forceably...and after seeing the news it is gonna be that Orton cousin.
Oh and Robo Cena.
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Post by thegame415 on Dec 5, 2013 19:51:44 GMT -5
My thought as well. People seem to love guys that can just wreck shit and if they keep using him as they have with the Shield I think he'll be huge. He's got a solid look and great presence about him as well. My biggest fear is that when he breaks out and turns face, he'll become a doofus, smiling all the time. I can picture something similar to the infamous WWF Magazine cover with smiling Diesel. When the Shield splits, I'd like to see him keep the same music, look, and entrance. It would separate him from the rest. I think it'd be cool to have him cut promos from the crowd too.
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Post by thegame415 on Dec 5, 2013 19:54:16 GMT -5
It was already written in stone pretty much. Punk Bryan Ziggler Those 3 were to lead this next era IMO the fans chose them and thats what was most important to who captivates new fans...but noooope so the next guy that does it is going to be chosen by WWE forceably...and after seeing the news it is gonna be that Orton cousin. Oh and Robo Cena. I think Ryback had a lot of potential too. Maybe not as long term as those guys mentioned, but Ryback was WAY over. He definitely had something going, and I believe he couldve been a great transition from Cena to the next top face. The feed me more thing was getting crazy reactions. He now looks like a goof.
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Post by xxshoyuweeniexx on Dec 5, 2013 19:59:21 GMT -5
In any case, the real lost audience is women, especially teenagers and girls. The whole show would need a makeover to bring them in, and they're not willing to do that, so nothing's going to change. They seem to be, or at least Stephanie likes to think, that's what they're doing now with stuff like Total Divas, AJ, and Steph's on air charater. The problem with that is all the Total Divas besides Naomi, Brie, and JoJo are all unlikable whiny and shrill women, Stephanie is an unlikeable bitch, and the one girl that girls want to cheer in AJ is being portrayed as evil because she doesn't like the awful vapid reality show girls. ...yeah.
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Post by celticjobber on Dec 5, 2013 19:59:31 GMT -5
Antonio Cesaro with his swing.
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Dec 5, 2013 21:04:59 GMT -5
My thought as well. People seem to love guys that can just wreck shit and if they keep using him as they have with the Shield I think he'll be huge. He's got a solid look and great presence about him as well. My biggest fear is that when he breaks out and turns face, he'll become a doofus, smiling all the time. I can picture something similar to the infamous WWF Magazine cover with smiling Diesel. When the Shield splits, I'd like to see him keep the same music, look, and entrance. It would separate him from the rest. I think it'd be cool to have him cut promos from the crowd too. I think Ambrose will be the one to keep the music.
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Post by BayleyTiffyCodyCenaJudyHopps on Dec 5, 2013 23:11:58 GMT -5
One guy or one storyline can't do it alone. They can be the figureheads of a movement towards mainstream interest (and considering how well WWE does in today's cable enviroment, it's not like they're at a 1995 type low), but it won't mean much if WWE isn't in the middle of a major blitz themselves.
Punk got some shoutouts on ESPN. But if that was such a grand breakthrough out of this alleged publicity ghetto WWE was in, what were Cena's appearances on Today, Good Morning America and Kelly Ripa this year alone? Hulkamania and Rock 'n Wrestling weren't built on Hogan's charisma by itself, he was part of a major campaign from WWF to rack up new television deals nationwide. He captained the ship, but he wasn't the whole ship.
It wasn't the booking that prevented Punk from reaching Austin/Hogan status, he had just come up during a period where WWE was using multiple top stars to be figureheads, as opposed to one guy- being in this case, Punk, Cena and Orton (with Del Rio falling short)
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Post by Magic knows Black Lives Matter on Dec 5, 2013 23:13:09 GMT -5
You can tell he is a star by the fact that he is rubbing his hands together like Birdman.
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Post by Hit Girl on Dec 5, 2013 23:17:24 GMT -5
At this point, WWE needs to worry about hooking their existing fans.
Everytime they get close to doing so, they screw it up.
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Reflecto
Hank Scorpio
The Sorceress' Knight
Posts: 6,847
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Post by Reflecto on Dec 6, 2013 0:05:03 GMT -5
I like Titus a lot too. I think the biggest thing he has against him is that he's 36. Definite drawback in ways, but I also see a very Terry Crews-like vibe to him. He'll never be main event, but I can certainly see side projects for him going very well. Wasn't Batista about the same age as Titus when he got the push?
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Lila
El Dandy
Slip N Slide World Champion 1997
Posts: 8,905
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Post by Lila on Dec 6, 2013 0:11:20 GMT -5
You can tell he is a star by the fact that he is rubbing his hands together like Birdman. Brrrrrrrrr what happen to that Reign? ![8-)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/cool.png)
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Post by cool guy on Dec 6, 2013 0:23:51 GMT -5
Punk doesn't have much mainstream appeal. He's too tatted up and the straight edge lifestyle is a joke to a lot of people. He is not a complete loss at all, but I dont think he could be Austin or Rock. I know plenty of people who know of Punk because of his connection to certain bands or his presence in the straight-edge community. He may not have "mainstream appeal" but he can bring in certain subcultures while appealing to the people who are already fans, and that's definitely something.
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Dec 6, 2013 0:33:06 GMT -5
If WWE insists on wanting to present itself as a "variety show", it needs to go all the way with it and feature something for everyone. Yes, some people want to see big angles. Some people want to see wrestling. Some people want to see silly comedy skits. While WWE DOES try this to some extent, the way they go about it is extremely formulaic. The "variety show" needs to encompass the ENTIRE roster instead of just a select few. Bryan + Shield (and Sheamus when he's around) can't be the only ones putting on the "workrate" matches. Ryder and 3MB can't be doing 95% of the jobbing. The "regular guy" wrestlers in the midcard should be given as much opportunity (if not more) to show personality as the cartoon gimmick guys. MizTV doesn't have to always be related to the main event angle. The comedy skits don't ALWAYS have to involve Khali, Santino, Hornswoggle or 3MB. If we HAVE to have heel authority figures, they shouldn't be ONLY interacting with the top guys while neglecting everyone else. Mix it up every once in a while. Definite drawback in ways, but I also see a very Terry Crews-like vibe to him. He'll never be main event, but I can certainly see side projects for him going very well. Wasn't Batista about the same age as Titus when he got the push? Batista also had the benefit of the brand split. I'm not sure if Titus can reach that level with a unified title and with Cena, Orton, Bryan, Punk, Big Show, Henry, Kane, Christian, Del Rio, Rey, Shield, Cody and even "buried" guys like Miz, Ryback, Ziggler, and Barrett in his way
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SEAN CARLESS
Hank Scorpio
More of a B+ player, actually
I'm Necessary Evil.
Posts: 5,770
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Post by SEAN CARLESS on Dec 6, 2013 3:20:38 GMT -5
In any case, the real lost audience is women, especially teenagers and girls. The whole show would need a makeover to bring them in, and they're not willing to do that, so nothing's going to change. Thank god. Teenage girls have enough things catered to their silly, fickle preferences already. There has to be something left for men and normal women in today's sea of soulless, manufactured shallowness. That said, every wrestling boom period was built off the back of a complete change in the m.o. of how wrestling was previously presented. There will never be a breakthrough player or boom under today's current, stagnant, out-dated direction. As someone said, Vince will have to get his finger on the pulse of whatever the current cultural zeitgeist is, and forge his product around that attitude and that individual who embodies it. Today's muppet show format, white-washed for annoying white-bread parents who can feel good and safe about what Branston and Bryton are watching needs to die. It's great for advertisers, but horrible for organic growth and progression. Wrestling needs to be catered towards the needs of the fans, not the owners to thrive. (and therein, said owners will make their money).
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Dec 6, 2013 3:32:19 GMT -5
In any case, the real lost audience is women, especially teenagers and girls. The whole show would need a makeover to bring them in, and they're not willing to do that, so nothing's going to change. Thank god. Teenage girls have enough things catered to their silly, fickle preferences already. There has to be something left for men and normal women in today's sea of soulless, manufactured shallowness. That said, every wrestling boom period was built off the back of a complete change in the m.o. of how wrestling was previously presented. There will never be a breakthrough player or boom under today's current, stagnant, out-dated direction. As someone said, Vince will have to get his finger on the pulse of whatever the current cultural zeitgeist is, and forge his product around that attitude and that individual who embodies it. Today's muppet show format, white-washed for annoying white-bread parents who can feel good and safe about what Branston and Bryton are watching needs to die. It's great for advertisers, but horrible for organic growth and progression. Wrestling needs to be catered towards the needs of the fans, not the owners to thrive. (and therein, said owners will make their money). You mention the cultural zeitgeist... I'm not really that in touch with it, so I must ask the people what exactly that is right now? And whatever it is, is it something that we really want wrestling to adapt to just for the sake of being "cool"?
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Post by BV on Dec 6, 2013 3:45:12 GMT -5
Reigns is going to be over like rover once he inevitably splits from The Shield. I just really hope they change as little as possible about him.
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SEAN CARLESS
Hank Scorpio
More of a B+ player, actually
I'm Necessary Evil.
Posts: 5,770
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Post by SEAN CARLESS on Dec 6, 2013 3:48:30 GMT -5
Thank god. Teenage girls have enough things catered to their silly, fickle preferences already. There has to be something left for men and normal women in today's sea of soulless, manufactured shallowness. That said, every wrestling boom period was built off the back of a complete change in the m.o. of how wrestling was previously presented. There will never be a breakthrough player or boom under today's current, stagnant, out-dated direction. As someone said, Vince will have to get his finger on the pulse of whatever the current cultural zeitgeist is, and forge his product around that attitude and that individual who embodies it. Today's muppet show format, white-washed for annoying white-bread parents who can feel good and safe about what Branston and Bryton are watching needs to die. It's great for advertisers, but horrible for organic growth and progression. Wrestling needs to be catered towards the needs of the fans, not the owners to thrive. (and therein, said owners will make their money). You mention the cultural zeitgeist... I'm not really that in touch with it, so I must ask the people what exactly that is right now? And whatever it is, is it something that we really want wrestling to adapt to just for the sake of being "cool"? That is a good question. And to be honest, I'm not sure what it is, or if we're just a part of a transition right now. I know since 9/11 it's been mostly an ask-no-questions, safe, kid-glove, self-involved, pro-authority stance, fostered and preserved by my milquetoast generation, who ironically enough were the targets of the last zeitgeist when they were actually angsty and rebellous in the 90's, but I sense, based on a lot of distrust, economic strife and lies by the same people my generation blindly obey and defend, that the happy good-guy corporation era we've in live is slowing rotting from the root, thanks to a new generation (thankfully) seeing their corruption and finally calling it out. But that soapbox aside, I'm not sure. So, I'd stay the course and just keep my eyes open. You'll know when its here because the people being talked about and the movements being followed will cast a stern contrast to this one. And out of that, a wrestling babyface who embodies that movement will arise, and capture that generation's interest.
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