chazraps
Wade Wilson
Better have my money when I come-a collect!
Posts: 28,055
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Post by chazraps on Dec 17, 2013 1:53:13 GMT -5
40.
R. Kelly has raped at least 40 girls.
Bafflingly disgusting. That Voice piece might be the most important piece of music journalism this year.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2013 2:17:46 GMT -5
He's done some terrible things. And instead of making people more aware of his crimes it seems all we're going to get is people using this for their soapbox about racism.
"Nobody matters less to our society than young black women. Nobody." Give me a break....
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Post by CrazySting on Dec 17, 2013 2:24:09 GMT -5
The article pointed out that he hasn't had his day in court for the rape charges still. Al I can say is, if you want something done about this, share that article on any social media you're on, and get everyone you know to share it on their social media stuff too. And if someone knows how to contact KinghtSec, put them on the case. I could be wrong, but isn't there a statute of limitations on rape charges? Even if they wanted to press charges, the window to do it might be closed. As for arruh, his skeeviness dates back to the 80s when he was picking up girls in front of his old high school. He has a ton of songs that I love, but God damn. If you believe the stories, he hasn't stopped any of his behavior, so hopefully the press could convince some girls from more recently to come forward.
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Post by CrazySting on Dec 17, 2013 2:26:22 GMT -5
He's done some terrible things. And instead of making people more aware of his crimes it seems all we're going to get is people using this for their soapbox about racism. "Nobody matters less to our society than young black women. Nobody." Give me a break.... IMO, I don't quite buy the idea that if he had assaulted one young white teenager, his whole world would have come crashing down. But, yeah, I think if he'd been assaulting Caucasian girls regularly something probably would have been done long ago. At the least, it would be a far bigger deal and certainly not the joke Chapelle and others treated it like.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2013 2:38:45 GMT -5
He's done some terrible things. And instead of making people more aware of his crimes it seems all we're going to get is people using this for their soapbox about racism. "Nobody matters less to our society than young black women. Nobody." Give me a break.... IMO, I don't quite buy the idea that if he had assaulted one young white teenager, his whole world would have come crashing down. But, yeah, I think if he'd been assaulting Caucasian girls regularly something probably would have been done long ago. At the least, it would be a far bigger deal and certainly not the joke Chapelle and others treated it like. We don't even know the extent of what R. Kelly has actually done though. He's obviously pretty shady and it has been proven that he's slept with 15-year old girls when he was in his 20s. But other than that it's people making loose allegations with no follow-up. I can't judge someone based on crimes he may or may not have committed. Obviously you can believe what you want but me personally, I'm not gonna sit here and go "R. Kelly is scum! He should be locked away immediately!" when no charges have been brought against him in recent times and the last charges that were, he was found not guilty on. I just don't appreciate people turning very serious accusations and wanting justice into saying that society is racist.
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Post by CrazySting on Dec 17, 2013 2:41:06 GMT -5
All these girls are not lying, bro.
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
Better have my money when I come-a collect!
Posts: 28,055
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Post by chazraps on Dec 17, 2013 2:56:56 GMT -5
IMO, I don't quite buy the idea that if he had assaulted one young white teenager, his whole world would have come crashing down. But, yeah, I think if he'd been assaulting Caucasian girls regularly something probably would have been done long ago. At the least, it would be a far bigger deal and certainly not the joke Chapelle and others treated it like. We don't even know the extent of what R. Kelly has actually done though. He's obviously pretty shady and it has been proven that he's slept with 15-year old girls when he was in his 20s. But other than that it's people making loose allegations with no follow-up. I can't judge someone based on crimes he may or may not have committed. Obviously you can believe what you want but me personally, I'm not gonna sit here and go "R. Kelly is scum! He should be locked away immediately!" when no charges have been brought against him in recent times and the last charges that were, he was found not guilty on. I just don't appreciate people turning very serious accusations and wanting justice into saying that society is racist. Did you read the article?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2013 3:00:04 GMT -5
We don't even know the extent of what R. Kelly has actually done though. He's obviously pretty shady and it has been proven that he's slept with 15-year old girls when he was in his 20s. But other than that it's people making loose allegations with no follow-up. I can't judge someone based on crimes he may or may not have committed. Obviously you can believe what you want but me personally, I'm not gonna sit here and go "R. Kelly is scum! He should be locked away immediately!" when no charges have been brought against him in recent times and the last charges that were, he was found not guilty on. I just don't appreciate people turning very serious accusations and wanting justice into saying that society is racist. Did you read the article? I kinda tuned out once I was called racist.
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
Better have my money when I come-a collect!
Posts: 28,055
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Post by chazraps on Dec 17, 2013 3:09:21 GMT -5
Did you read the article? I kinda tuned out once I was called racist. You should really re-read it.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2013 3:32:10 GMT -5
I kinda tuned out once I was called racist. You should really re-read it. Having re-read it....I don't feel much differently. The guy who's being interviewed's main point is that R. Kelly is a predatory rapist. Rapist to me implies that he's forced young girls to have sex with him, and correct me if I'm wrong, I didn't see him say that the girls were forced. Obviously that doesn't absolve him of having sex with underage girls and if true, he should be punished. But the idea that a 15-year old is some little girl who can't make any decisions is silly. I know damn sure when I was 15 I knew the difference between right and wrong and that if I had sex with a twenty something year old, they could be in a lot of trouble. He also talks about young black girls having to accept settlements because they felt they weren't getting anywhere but it seems to me (and evidenced by the parents who went to France that he mentions) they maybe some were only interested in making a quick buck off of R. Kelly instead of pursuing justice.
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
Better have my money when I come-a collect!
Posts: 28,055
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Post by chazraps on Dec 17, 2013 3:47:08 GMT -5
You should really re-read it. Having re-read it....I don't feel much differently. The guy who's being interviewed's main point is that R. Kelly is a predatory rapist. Rapist to me implies that he's forced young girls to have sex with him, and correct me if I'm wrong, I didn't see him say that the girls were forced. Obviously that doesn't absolve him of having sex with underage girls and if true, he should be punished. But the idea that a 15-year old is some little girl who can't make any decisions is silly. I know damn sure when I was 15 I knew the difference between right and wrong and that if I had sex with a twenty something year old, they could be in a lot of trouble. He also talks about young black girls having to accept settlements because they felt they weren't getting anywhere but it seems to me (and evidenced by the parents who went to France that he mentions) they maybe some were only interested in making a quick buck off of R. Kelly instead of pursuing justice. How old are you now? When it comes to sexuality, a 15-year-old is incapable of making those sort of decisions when dealing with a predatory adult. It's the most volatile age when one's body is changing and their hormones are all over the place, leaving them insecure and vulnerable regardless who it is. He's taking advantage of girls in this state by swindling sex out of them. There's a reason we have statutory rape laws in this country, and the fact that you're blaming a victim for being pressured into having a much older man piss in her mouth and call him "Daddy" is kind of sickening. I know looking back on it we try to put such an weird age like 15 behind us or look at it through rose-colored glasses, but speaking as someone who has taught 15-year-olds for six years now, sexuality is a bizarre and confusing territory and any adult looking to manipulate anyone is such a state is an absolute monster. Maybe you were in a fortunate enough position to grow up sheltered from a situation where an adult would coerce sex out of you, but these girls weren't. You can't just go imposing your own personal experience as some standard for absolutely everybody to live up to. Those girls didn't deserve to be raped, and if you've never been in the type of legal situation where you've had to accept a settlement because "pursuing justice" was made into an impossible obstacle, then consider yourself lucky.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Dec 17, 2013 4:47:45 GMT -5
I first heard about this in about 2005, and I've been wondering since how the hell this guy still has a career and isn't in jail.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2013 4:47:58 GMT -5
Having re-read it....I don't feel much differently. The guy who's being interviewed's main point is that R. Kelly is a predatory rapist. Rapist to me implies that he's forced young girls to have sex with him, and correct me if I'm wrong, I didn't see him say that the girls were forced. Obviously that doesn't absolve him of having sex with underage girls and if true, he should be punished. But the idea that a 15-year old is some little girl who can't make any decisions is silly. I know damn sure when I was 15 I knew the difference between right and wrong and that if I had sex with a twenty something year old, they could be in a lot of trouble. He also talks about young black girls having to accept settlements because they felt they weren't getting anywhere but it seems to me (and evidenced by the parents who went to France that he mentions) they maybe some were only interested in making a quick buck off of R. Kelly instead of pursuing justice. How old are you now? When it comes to sexuality, a 15-year-old is incapable of making those sort of decisions when dealing with a predatory adult. It's the most volatile age when one's body is changing and their hormones are all over the place, leaving them insecure and vulnerable regardless who it is. He's taking advantage of girls in this state by swindling sex out of them. There's a reason we have statutory rape laws in this country, and the fact that you're blaming a victim for being pressured into having a much older man piss in her mouth and call him "Daddy" is kind of sickening. I know looking back on it we try to put such an weird age like 15 behind us or look at it through rose-colored glasses, but speaking as someone who has taught 15-year-olds for six years now, sexuality is a bizarre and confusing territory and any adult looking to manipulate anyone is such a state is an absolute monster. Maybe you were in a fortunate enough position to grow up sheltered from a situation where an adult would coerce sex out of you, but these girls weren't. You can't just go imposing your own personal experience as some standard for absolutely everybody to live up to. Those girls didn't deserve to be raped, and if you've never been in the type of legal situation where you've had to accept a settlement because "pursuing justice" was made into an impossible obstacle, then consider yourself lucky. I'm 19. I was only 15 3 years ago, so I don't think I'm looking through rose-tinted glasses or any of that. I'm not American so sex laws here are not going to be the same. For example, the age of consent here is 16 and it's only statutory rape if they're under 13. Going by my country's laws for a minute here, having sex with a 15-year old isn't rape. And a 15-year old can't make sexual decisions but somehow when they turn 16 they magically can? And a 15-year old and an 8-year old come under the same legal definition? The whole thing is a grey area because of things like that. It's a gradual process and of course some teens are more mature than others, but there's not a world of difference between 15 and 16. Not everything in life should go by the letter of the law. You have to take things like this case by case imo. Again I'm not absolving R. Kelly of things he's done. But you yourself seem to be reading that article through rose tinted glasses. Maybe I'm just more cynical and pessimistic than you are, but you're telling me you can't possibly imagine a teenage girl throwing themselves at a famous musician and then trying to score some money out of it? Of course, I'm not suggesting that's the case with many, if any, of the girls. But you don't seem to be considering it at all.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Dec 17, 2013 4:49:39 GMT -5
You should really re-read it. Having re-read it....I don't feel much differently. The guy who's being interviewed's main point is that R. Kelly is a predatory rapist. Rapist to me implies that he's forced young girls to have sex with him, and correct me if I'm wrong, I didn't see him say that the girls were forced. Obviously that doesn't absolve him of having sex with underage girls and if true, he should be punished. But the idea that a 15-year old is some little girl who can't make any decisions is silly. I know damn sure when I was 15 I knew the difference between right and wrong and that if I had sex with a twenty something year old, they could be in a lot of trouble. He also talks about young black girls having to accept settlements because they felt they weren't getting anywhere but it seems to me (and evidenced by the parents who went to France that he mentions) they maybe some were only interested in making a quick buck off of R. Kelly instead of pursuing justice. Ever heard of statutory rape?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2013 4:52:47 GMT -5
Having re-read it....I don't feel much differently. The guy who's being interviewed's main point is that R. Kelly is a predatory rapist. Rapist to me implies that he's forced young girls to have sex with him, and correct me if I'm wrong, I didn't see him say that the girls were forced. Obviously that doesn't absolve him of having sex with underage girls and if true, he should be punished. But the idea that a 15-year old is some little girl who can't make any decisions is silly. I know damn sure when I was 15 I knew the difference between right and wrong and that if I had sex with a twenty something year old, they could be in a lot of trouble. He also talks about young black girls having to accept settlements because they felt they weren't getting anywhere but it seems to me (and evidenced by the parents who went to France that he mentions) they maybe some were only interested in making a quick buck off of R. Kelly instead of pursuing justice. Ever heard of statutory rape? Read the post above yours. It's not black and white like people in this thread are making out. It'd also be statutory rape if a 14-year old lied about her age and propositioned you. That doesn't mean the man who had sex with her was some kind of monster.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Dec 17, 2013 4:58:53 GMT -5
Ever heard of statutory rape? Read the post above yours. It's not black and white like people in this thread are making out. It'd also be statutory rape if a 14-year old lied about her age and propositioned you. That doesn't mean the man who had sex with her was some kind of monster. The post above mine went up while I was still writing mine. I agree with you about there being grey areas as far as consent is concerned, but the thing is we're not talking about a one-off here, we're talking about a guy over a prolonged period of time sleeping with dozens of underage girls. Sure, they may well have hit on him first in some cases, but have you never done something you regret? You never done something you wanted to do and then got halfway through and not known how to stop, but wishing you hadn't done it? I know multiple women who have felt so scared during a situation that they didn't feel like they could get out, and R Kelly is obviously physically stronger than a 15 year old girl - never mind the fact that he will doubtless have bodyguards. It's the sheer numbers which are making me basically consider this open and shut. I'm not saying there is zero room for doubt whatsoever, but given how little national or international coverage this story really got, I can't imagine there being dozens of girls all 'taking advantage' of R Kelly just to get some money out of him. And how many times would that have to happen to you before you start thinking 'hey, maybe I should stop banging minors'?
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67 more
King Koopa
He's just a Sexy Kurt
Posts: 11,548
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Post by 67 more on Dec 17, 2013 5:02:18 GMT -5
I'm sorry but I'm not taking some blog as proof of a man's perversion. I'm taking a guilty verdict.
The man was charged in 2003, in 2004 the police had been found to issue non-valid search warrants casting doubt on the matter. As soon as there's reasonable doubt, you should not be found guilty. Charges were dropped.
The man was tried in 2008, the man was acquitted in a court of law in 2008.
Might be an unpopular stance for me to take, but innocent until proven guilty.
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Post by SsnakeBite, the No1 Frenchman on Dec 17, 2013 6:04:10 GMT -5
I thought one of the saddest parts was when it was pointed out that at least part of why he's managed to get away with this for so long was because his victims were all young black women who tend to be marginalized in society. This is the sad reality we live in. Had even one of those girls been white, he would've been sent to prison. A really f***ed up situation. I don't think it's THAT clear cut. Granted, I won't deny that it's even harder for Black girls, but if the Steubenville rape case has told us anything, it's that authorities are willing to silence victims regardless of ethnic or social origin as long as the criminal can bring in even a little bit of money and publicity. Sad that this didn't get 1/3rd the attention that the allegations against MJ did. Especially since, you know, there's actual evidence in the R-Kelly case. I'm sorry but I'm not taking some blog as proof of a man's perversion. I'm taking a guilty verdict. Might be an unpopular stance for me to take, but innocent until proven guilty. So him knowingly marrying and having sex with a 15-years-old girl and video evidence of him urinating on a teenage girl aren't proof enough that he's guilty? There's reasonable scepticism and then there's blatantly disregarding the facts. Also, if you honestly believe that verdicts are actual proof of anything, I would like to welcome you to the real world, where judges and juries can be corrupted, mislead or flat-out be wrong.
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67 more
King Koopa
He's just a Sexy Kurt
Posts: 11,548
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Post by 67 more on Dec 17, 2013 7:22:34 GMT -5
I'm sorry but I'm not taking some blog as proof of a man's perversion. I'm taking a guilty verdict. Might be an unpopular stance for me to take, but innocent until proven guilty. So him knowingly marrying and having sex with a 15-years-old girl and video evidence of him urinating on a teenage girl aren't proof enough that he's guilty? There's reasonable scepticism and then there's blatantly disregarding the facts. Also, if you honestly believe that verdicts are actual proof of anything, I would like to welcome you to the real world, where judges and juries can be corrupted, mislead or flat-out be wrong.[/quote] I actually typed out a really long reply but my stupid laptop thought that me pressing backspace was a request for me to go back to the last page. I'm just going to say I am living in the real world where everything is a horribly murky grey rather than a straight right/wrong. Aaliyah was willing to her marriage and sexual congress. Had this taken place in France for example, it would be legal. As this was in America, it's illegal but not necessarily wrong. Ages of consents are arbitrary and don't look at the actual sexual maturity of the person in question. No other claims had enough proof behind them. All other claims came after the Aaliyah marriage. I can't say that all these girls are lying for exploitation (although it is known to happen), but I also can't say that Kelly is a serial rapist (although it is known to happen, Jimmy Savile, Ian Watkins etc). He hasn't been proven 100% guilty in my eyes, so I have to view him as 0% guilty by my ethical and moral codes. If he is proven without a shadow of a doubt guilty and serves prison time, then I'll happily join the rest of you. At the moment, though, it's too grey for me to slag him off.
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Post by Bootista on Dec 17, 2013 8:19:47 GMT -5
How old are you now? When it comes to sexuality, a 15-year-old is incapable of making those sort of decisions when dealing with a predatory adult. It's the most volatile age when one's body is changing and their hormones are all over the place, leaving them insecure and vulnerable regardless who it is. He's taking advantage of girls in this state by swindling sex out of them. There's a reason we have statutory rape laws in this country, and the fact that you're blaming a victim for being pressured into having a much older man piss in her mouth and call him "Daddy" is kind of sickening. I know looking back on it we try to put such an weird age like 15 behind us or look at it through rose-colored glasses, but speaking as someone who has taught 15-year-olds for six years now, sexuality is a bizarre and confusing territory and any adult looking to manipulate anyone is such a state is an absolute monster. Maybe you were in a fortunate enough position to grow up sheltered from a situation where an adult would coerce sex out of you, but these girls weren't. You can't just go imposing your own personal experience as some standard for absolutely everybody to live up to. Those girls didn't deserve to be raped, and if you've never been in the type of legal situation where you've had to accept a settlement because "pursuing justice" was made into an impossible obstacle, then consider yourself lucky. I'm 19. I was only 15 3 years ago, so I don't think I'm looking through rose-tinted glasses or any of that. I'm not American so sex laws here are not going to be the same. For example, the age of consent here is 16 and it's only statutory rape if they're under 13. Going by my country's laws for a minute here, having sex with a 15-year old isn't rape. And a 15-year old can't make sexual decisions but somehow when they turn 16 they magically can? And a 15-year old and an 8-year old come under the same legal definition? The whole thing is a grey area because of things like that. It's a gradual process and of course some teens are more mature than others, but there's not a world of difference between 15 and 16. Not everything in life should go by the letter of the law. You have to take things like this case by case imo. Again I'm not absolving R. Kelly of things he's done. But you yourself seem to be reading that article through rose tinted glasses. Maybe I'm just more cynical and pessimistic than you are, but you're telling me you can't possibly imagine a teenage girl throwing themselves at a famous musician and then trying to score some money out of it? Of course, I'm not suggesting that's the case with many, if any, of the girls. But you don't seem to be considering it at all. By Law, 15 year olds cannot consent to sex so Yes it is Statutory Rape. I cannot believe the lengths some people go to to defend scum.
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