So I was quite excited for babyface Miz...

["Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay]

But having finally seen this promo:



...I wish he was still this motivated.

[Deleted]

It's the hair. Faux hawk = motivated Miz.

[Apricots And A Pear Tree]

Dec 18, 2013 10:43:10 GMT -5 @rackzyder said:

It's the hair. Faux hawk = motivated Miz.

Add a Fedora and he's unstoppable.

[Talent Name]

Dec 18, 2013 10:52:34 GMT -5 Apricots And A Pear Tree said:

Dec 18, 2013 10:43:10 GMT -5 @rackzyder said:

It's the hair. Faux hawk = motivated Miz.

Add a Fedora and he's unstoppable.

And shorts and some gloves money in the bank right there

[onetruemisfit]

I remember that promo and that's definitely why I love heel miz. I don't think he can really use the fact that everyone hated him and no one believed in him anymore though. His wrestlemania promo entrance video thing is awesome. I've rewatched it a lot so amazing.

[CATCH_US IS the Conversation]

Dec 18, 2013 11:01:15 GMT -5 Talent Name said:

Dec 18, 2013 10:52:34 GMT -5 Apricots And A Pear Tree said:

Add a Fedora and he's unstoppable.

And shorts and some gloves money in the bank right there

Let's not get carried away now.

[Abdullah]

Dec 18, 2013 7:56:37 GMT -5 "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay said:

But having finally seen this promo:



...I wish he was still this motivated.

Do you really think it's his motivation, or lack thereof, as opposed to the management slowly but surely deciding that PR is his only use?

They screwed his face turn very early on with the abundance of MizTV.

[CATCH_US IS the Conversation]

Dec 18, 2013 11:14:58 GMT -5 Abdullah said:

Dec 18, 2013 7:56:37 GMT -5 "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay said:

But having finally seen this promo:



...I wish he was still this motivated.

Do you really think it's his motivation, or lack thereof, as opposed to the writers slowly but surely deciding that PR is his only use?

They screwed his face turn very early on with the abundance of MizTV.

I think MizTV was okay. What ruined him was lack of any proper storyline, and feeding him to the flavor of the month whenever they needed a "name" to go over.

The IC Title win at WM29 was Miz's first big moment as a face, and then they Just gave the title back to Barrett the next night.

Miz never really got to do anything substantial as a face.

["Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay]

Dec 18, 2013 11:14:58 GMT -5 Abdullah said:

Dec 18, 2013 7:56:37 GMT -5 "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay said:

But having finally seen this promo:



...I wish he was still this motivated.

Do you really think it's his motivation, or lack thereof, as opposed to the management slowly but surely deciding that PR is his only use?

They screwed his face turn very early on with the abundance of MizTV.

Oh I agree that management f***ed it up, but I think that's what led to his lack of motivation, not vice versa.

[Sumbody Gon' Get Dey Kneelift]

Dec 18, 2013 11:11:10 GMT -5 onetruemisfit said:

I remember that promo and that's definitely why I love heel miz. I don't think he can really use the fact that everyone hated him and no one believed in him anymore though. His wrestlemania promo entrance video thing is awesome. I've rewatched it a lot so amazing.

One of the best ever.

[Abdullah]

Dec 18, 2013 11:36:54 GMT -5 "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay said:

Dec 18, 2013 11:14:58 GMT -5 Abdullah said:

Do you really think it's his motivation, or lack thereof, as opposed to the management slowly but surely deciding that PR is his only use?

They screwed his face turn very early on with the abundance of MizTV.

Oh I agree that management f***ed it up, but I think that's what led to his lack of motivation, not vice versa.

People complain about Ziggler, Bryan, etc, and they should. But at least those guys are presented as wrestlers, who care about their career.

That's not the sense I get with Miz. There's something that happens on an upcoming show, admittedly minor, that stresses how little they care about Miz's character/crowd heat.

The guy looks to be done. Which is sad because his turn could have breathed new life into his career and he was very decently over at first.

["Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay]

Dec 18, 2013 11:49:46 GMT -5 Abdullah said:

Dec 18, 2013 11:36:54 GMT -5 "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay said:

Oh I agree that management f***ed it up, but I think that's what led to his lack of motivation, not vice versa.

People complain about Ziggler, Bryan, etc, and they should. But at least those guys are presented as wrestlers, who care about their career.

That's not the sense I get with Miz. There's something that happens on an upcoming show, admittedly minor, that stresses how little they care about Miz's character/crowd heat.

The guy looks to be done. Which is sad because his turn could have breathed new life into his career and he was very decently over at first.

There was a notable section of the audience that wanted him babyface and got behind him, but they wouldn't let him do what made the character popular in the first place. It was stupid.

[Kevin Hamilton]

Dec 18, 2013 11:11:10 GMT -5 onetruemisfit said:

I remember that promo and that's definitely why I love heel miz. I don't think he can really use the fact that everyone hated him and no one believed in him anymore though. His wrestlemania promo entrance video thing is awesome. I've rewatched it a lot so amazing.

That vid is better than the match that followed it. Hell, I don't even really dislike Miz, and that vid is better than anything he's ever done tbh.

[Ben Wyatt]

Dec 18, 2013 11:30:34 GMT -5 CATCH_US IS the Conversation said:

Dec 18, 2013 11:14:58 GMT -5 Abdullah said:

Do you really think it's his motivation, or lack thereof, as opposed to the writers slowly but surely deciding that PR is his only use?

They screwed his face turn very early on with the abundance of MizTV.

I think MizTV was okay. What ruined him was lack of any proper storyline, and feeding him to the flavor of the month whenever they needed a "name" to go over.

The IC Title win at WM29 was Miz's first big moment as a face, and then they Just gave the title back to Barrett the next night.

Miz never really got to do anything substantial as a face.

THIS, THIS, A MILLION TIMES THIS.

Outside of the beginning of the 'Awesome Truth' angle, they haven't booked him right since the night he won the WWE title

[Kevin Hamilton]

Having rewatched the Mania vid, kudos to the production crew again for making that look amazing. Shame Miz doesn't really live up to it; cuz if he could he'd be great.

[mizerable]

Dec 18, 2013 12:43:37 GMT -5 Ben Wyatt said:

Outside of the beginning of the 'Awesome Truth' angle, they haven't booked him right since the night he won the WWE title

To be fair, and I've said it before...but he should have never won the title. Once he did, it was nothing but downhill. It doesn't matter the amount of booking put into someone, if you just don't fit the bill, no one will accept it, especially when they *did* take some steps to protect him. I think getting to the finals of the #1 contender's tournament with an injured leg, as a heel is definitely a showing that the front office was behind him for the most part. But winning the title and being the man can overexpose someone. And it certainly did here. As a viewer, I could not in any sense fathom sustain belief that this guy should be champion. I'll admit, he had a good thing going with his original feud with Cena, where he was "winning" matches. He could have easily been a lifetime upper midcard guy, without ever needing to win the title. I think too many guys nowadays look at that as the end game, and a lot of times..it could BE the end game for your career. After Miz lost the title, there was nowhere for him to go and no one to really feud with that was built up to his "level". People complain about his feuding with Lawler and being overlooked in his Mania feud, but they forget he was allowed to cleanly beat a vast majority of the roster for months prior to that. Unless they decided to put the title right back on him, he was going to drop off the map. I could almost say the same about Alberto Del Rio right now.

[Ben Wyatt]

Dec 18, 2013 13:18:51 GMT -5 mizerable said:

Dec 18, 2013 12:43:37 GMT -5 Ben Wyatt said:

Outside of the beginning of the 'Awesome Truth' angle, they haven't booked him right since the night he won the WWE title

To be fair, and I've said it before...but he should have never won the title. Once he did, it was nothing but downhill. It doesn't matter the amount of booking put into someone, if you just don't fit the bill, no one will accept it, especially when they *did* take some steps to protect him. I think getting to the finals of the #1 contender's tournament with an injured leg, as a heel is definitely a showing that the front office was behind him for the most part. But winning the title and being the man can overexpose someone. And it certainly did here. As a viewer, I could not in any sense fathom sustain belief that this guy should be champion. I'll admit, he had a good thing going with his original feud with Cena, where he was "winning" matches. He could have easily been a lifetime upper midcard guy, without ever needing to win the title. I think too many guys nowadays look at that as the end game, and a lot of times..it could BE the end game for your career. After Miz lost the title, there was nowhere for him to go and no one to really feud with that was built up to his "level". People complain about his feuding with Lawler and being overlooked in his Mania feud, but they forget he was allowed to cleanly beat a vast majority of the roster for months prior to that. Unless they decided to put the title right back on him, he was going to drop off the map. I could almost say the same about Alberto Del Rio right now.

I'm not dismissing what you're trying to say, but the thing is, he was over. Really over. You can talk credibility and believeability til the cows come home. The fact is he was white hot as a heel and was getting reactions while a good chunk of guys simply weren't. I'm not suggesting he should have had a 1980's Flair title reign, but the way they booked him was stupid. It's just bad business to chop the legs off of a guy that was on a roll like he was. I get that they had to do the Mania screwy finsh to set up Rock/Cena 1, but did the build have to involve Miz twittling his thumbs for the majority of it?

[Andrew is Good]

When Miz won the WWE Championship, I felt that he deserved it and was a great Champion. There were some people who were like, oh, he was from the Real World, but Miz really put his working boots on and was really good.

But I guess in recent years after being beaten into powder, he hasn't been able to get back to where he was before. And then, his act started growing stale as a heel, and then he finally turned baby face, and stuff was getting worse. And then there was that deal with Kofi, and he's going to probably remain baby face like, when I feel Miz should be released, it's because he needs a fresh coat of paint, without wishing injury upon the guy. He needs to be gone for awhile, because I feel keeping him around and beating him makes being a World Champion worth a lot less. Him, Ziggler, Swagger and Khali are in that category of, "those guys were World Champions?" And it's crazy that Miz was viewed, or at least became a main event talent once he won that title, almost like when Bret Hart, Shawn Michaels or Steve Austin won their titles for the first time. They were almost there, then they made it. And that's how Miz was. And now, it's just sad.

[Bub (BLM)]

The problem with Miz as WWE Champion was always the fact that they had better options. It wasn't like 1995 when all the top guys were gone. They had better heels on the roster who could also work circles around Miz and felt more credible.

Like others have said, putting Miz in that role went to expose every last weakness he had. He'd be in a better spot now having never been Champion.

[CATCH_US IS the Conversation]

Dec 18, 2013 15:35:50 GMT -5 Bub (BLM) said:

The problem with Miz as WWE Champion was always the fact that they had better options. It wasn't like 1995 when all the top guys were gone. They had better heels on the roster who could also work circles around Miz and felt more credible.

Like others have said, putting Miz in that role went to expose every last weakness he had. He'd be in a better spot now having never been Champion.

I think Miz has more value as a "failed" main eventer than he would if he were never pushed beyond that point. Like when he first won the IC Title last year, it felt like he was elevating it, and it really helped Kofi during their feud last year.

I think if Miz were never a world champion, he'd be demoted all the way down to the C-Shows once the brand split ended and we ended up with main eventer over saturation. His PR ability might have gotten him noticed, but I don't think he'd be called on for those PR jobs if he were just a "midcarder".