Emmet Russell
King Koopa
Quieter
The best wrestler on earth.
Posts: 12,526
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Post by Emmet Russell on Dec 25, 2013 5:06:36 GMT -5
His bumping is certainly beyond average.
I'm a little bit tired of him too. Maybe it's just because I find him incredibly annoying on Twitter. There are only a few wrestlers I don't follow on there because I find them unbearable: Chavo Guerrero, Zack Ryder, & Dolph Ziggler. He just acts like a teenage girl & it's incredibly annoying. Just let me like you!
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Dec 25, 2013 5:50:02 GMT -5
Maybe 'average' doesn't mean what I think it means.
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Boo!
Dennis Stamp
Posts: 4,417
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Post by Boo! on Dec 25, 2013 6:29:29 GMT -5
Man I'm sorry, but I hate like 99% of the things you post. Oh okay. Well given the level of likes you've received it may well be a popular opinion. I guess I'll leave
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Post by airraidcrash on Dec 25, 2013 6:39:05 GMT -5
Can I just say that I hate that Ziggler is viewed as the gold standard for great selling? Sure he takes some lunatic bumps but there's a lot more to selling than that.
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ASYLUMHAUSEN
Fry's dog Seymour
GIFs | Shitposts | Fun
Posts: 24,372
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Post by ASYLUMHAUSEN on Dec 25, 2013 7:22:09 GMT -5
Ziggler sold this thread like he'd been kicked in the temple by a mule...by GAWD he's dead!
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Dec 25, 2013 7:38:42 GMT -5
Ziggler is Curt Hennig, guy can make people look amazing and look amazing himself while doing so, but for whatever reason, management aren't 100% sold on him so won't commit to a full main event push. With the WHC gone, he won't get a sniff of a top belt unless they need someone to transition the belt from face to face, but when the inevitable mass talent cuts come, he'll survive because he's so useful to have on the roster, a credible bumper.
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Post by Bootista on Dec 25, 2013 8:59:31 GMT -5
I really don't care for Dolph Ziggler, he comes across too phony, a high brow and very athletic Miz. Like Miz he has quite a few fans, I just don't dig it. Dolph doesn't come across as phony to me.
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kidglov3s
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Wants her Shot
Who is Tiger Maskooo?
Posts: 15,870
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Post by kidglov3s on Dec 25, 2013 9:41:35 GMT -5
I really don't care for Dolph Ziggler, he comes across too phony, a high brow and very athletic Miz. Like Miz he has quite a few fans, I just don't dig it. Dolph doesn't come across as phony to me. Not like he's a phony person, but just like... stagey? I never feel like I'm watching him in a fight, always like too far into "lol, I'm pretending to be a wrestler, isn't that hilarious? Did you know this is fake, lol?" I think the hashtag heel phase of his career did a lot to influence my perception of him. To be fair I get the same vibes of post-post-modern meta wrestler from Dean Ambrose and the whole Wyatt thing. You got your high school drama club into my pro wrestling. And I know pro wrestling is theater, but I think it's a theater that works when you can lose yourself in it. When the performers work to build the illusion rather than contrast against the thought of one.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 25, 2013 10:28:48 GMT -5
Dolph doesn't come across as phony to me. Not like he's a phony person, but just like... stagey? I never feel like I'm watching him in a fight, always like too far into "lol, I'm pretending to be a wrestler, isn't that hilarious? Did you know this is fake, lol?" I think the hashtag heel phase of his career did a lot to influence my perception of him. To be fair I get the same vibes of post-post-modern meta wrestler from Dean Ambrose and the whole Wyatt thing. You got your high school drama club into my pro wrestling. I can kinda' understand what you mean about Ziggler, what with referring to himself as a heel and whatnot, but how do Ambrose and the Wyatts seem too fake? Ambrose is basically just a sleazier-looking Brian Pillman and stuff like Wyatt Family has been around since Kevin Sullivan in the 80s.
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kidglov3s
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Wants her Shot
Who is Tiger Maskooo?
Posts: 15,870
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Post by kidglov3s on Dec 25, 2013 11:17:34 GMT -5
Not like he's a phony person, but just like... stagey? I never feel like I'm watching him in a fight, always like too far into "lol, I'm pretending to be a wrestler, isn't that hilarious? Did you know this is fake, lol?" I think the hashtag heel phase of his career did a lot to influence my perception of him. To be fair I get the same vibes of post-post-modern meta wrestler from Dean Ambrose and the whole Wyatt thing. You got your high school drama club into my pro wrestling. I can kinda' understand what you mean about Ziggler, what with referring to himself as a heel and whatnot, but how do Ambrose and the Wyatts seem too fake? Ambrose is basically just a sleazier-looking Brian Pillman and stuff like Wyatt Family has been around since Kevin Sullivan in the 80s. To me the whole Wyatt gimmick just seems so fake. I mean that match at Survivor Series people were going crazy for these goofy like not even pretending to be fighting someone stuff, like Kabuki theater. Not my thing. Ambrose it's his like super broad exaggerated facial expression "OWW OWW CANT YOU SEE I'M DOING A REALLY GOOD JOB ACTING OWW!" Maybe it's just me. To be fair I can't recall really seeing as much of that from Ambrose since his first few matches on tv, but again it's like with hashtag heel, sometimes it can be hard for me to shake an impression of someone when I feel they're heading in this direction.
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Post by Hit Girl on Dec 25, 2013 11:25:20 GMT -5
I can't hold my interest in him. He's not bad but I've never found anything to enjoy about him, it's all rather underwhelming. Blame the booking, not the performer. Ziggler usually gets served up shit by creative.
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Post by airraidcrash on Dec 25, 2013 12:11:03 GMT -5
Bray Wyatt can overdo his schtick but Luke Harper is just great at his role. Nothing pretentious about him.
I wasn't a big fan of Ambroses indy promos which seemed like something you would read in an e-fed, but he's become a really good stooging heel in WWE and to me he doesn't look as forced as Jon Moxley was.
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Post by Sumbody Gon' Get Dey Kneelift on Dec 25, 2013 12:22:33 GMT -5
I'd change this to "everything about Ziggler is above average, but none of it is great." I'd say he's better than 99% of the roster. The problem is booking.
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Post by Mc Mc Mannequin on Dec 25, 2013 12:30:53 GMT -5
Gotta agree with the OP on this one.
I mean can anyone honestly say:
"Hey remember that unforgettable Dolph Ziggler match?"
Or
"Remember that awesome Dolph Ziggler promo?"
Or
"Remember that awesome segment? Dolph Ziggler really made that segment" (MitB cash in doesn't count since they are always pretty memorable).
And he's been in the company, what? Closing in on a decade?
Comparisons with Steve Austin are quite frankly absurd. The Billy Gunn comparison is more apt imo.
Everything about him screams midcard to me. His main attribute is making other people look good and his good looking, athletic and cocky guy gimmick has been done a million times before and better.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Dec 25, 2013 12:33:55 GMT -5
Ziggler is Curt Hennig, guy can make people look amazing and look amazing himself while doing so, but for whatever reason, management aren't 100% sold on him so won't commit to a full main event push. With the WHC gone, he won't get a sniff of a top belt unless they need someone to transition the belt from face to face, but when the inevitable mass talent cuts come, he'll survive because he's so useful to have on the roster, a credible bumper. Curt could cut a serious promo you could believe in; I can't buy anything Ziggler says. That's why they won't go all the way with Dolph.
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Lila
El Dandy
Slip N Slide World Champion 1997
Posts: 8,905
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Post by Lila on Dec 25, 2013 12:36:22 GMT -5
Except DAT ASS.
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Post by Some Guy on Dec 25, 2013 12:55:32 GMT -5
Gotta agree with the OP on this one. I mean can anyone honestly say: "Hey remember that unforgettable Dolph Ziggler match?"Or "Remember that awesome Dolph Ziggler promo?" Or "Remember that awesome segment? Dolph Ziggler really made that segment" (MitB cash in doesn't count since they are always pretty memorable). And he's been in the company, what? Closing in on a decade? Comparisons with Steve Austin are quite frankly absurd. The Billy Gunn comparison is more apt imo. Everything about him screams midcard to me. His main attribute is making other people look good and his good looking, athletic and cocky guy gimmick has been done a million times before and better. -Yep. I remember that amazing Bryan/Ziggler match from Bragging Rights 2010 that tied Shawn/Taker for WWE Match of the Year, and completely stole the show while getting the crowd involved. I also remember that string of matches from Ziggler in late 2011 on Raw, where he had top of the line matches with Orton and Punk. Finally, I'll remember the best double turn in a match since Austin/Bret, with Ziggler selling better than anyone has in a long time in the Payback match. -Yep. I remember that promo where he lit into AJ being the best segment AJ has ever had (well, with her as a face), and everything coming out perfectly. His fight with Cena was only the icing for that segment. Additionally, his promo where he tore apart Mick Foley before the Rumble in 2012 was the best promo work he's ever done, and I'll always remember it. -I'm not really sure how that's different from promo...it fits right alongside that. But considering that was the biggest pop in MITB cash-in history, I'd say it's pretty damn memorable. As for the Gunn comparisons, they look alike and use the fameasser. That's the only thing I see here. Ziggler has constantly delivered when he actually gets a big chance (see Survivor Series 2012, TLC 2012, Royal Rumble 2011, Payback 2013, his Raw matches with Cena where he was made to look like utter shit, etc) and he got himself over despite shitty booking and not ever really having a mega familiar background. Yes he sells comically sometimes, but so what? Did Shawn Michaels not do the same thing? How about Mr. Perfect? Where's the hatred for them "making wrestling look too fake" when they wrestled? Same with Hogan's opponents, generally speaking.
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Post by Mc Mc Mannequin on Dec 25, 2013 13:06:36 GMT -5
Gotta agree with the OP on this one. I mean can anyone honestly say: "Hey remember that unforgettable Dolph Ziggler match?"Or "Remember that awesome Dolph Ziggler promo?" Or "Remember that awesome segment? Dolph Ziggler really made that segment" (MitB cash in doesn't count since they are always pretty memorable). And he's been in the company, what? Closing in on a decade? Comparisons with Steve Austin are quite frankly absurd. The Billy Gunn comparison is more apt imo. Everything about him screams midcard to me. His main attribute is making other people look good and his good looking, athletic and cocky guy gimmick has been done a million times before and better. -Yep. I remember that amazing Bryan/Ziggler match from Bragging Rights 2010 that tied Shawn/Taker for WWE Match of the Year, and completely stole the show while getting the crowd involved. I also remember that string of matches from Ziggler in late 2011 on Raw, where he had top of the line matches with Orton and Punk. Finally, I'll remember the best double turn in a match since Austin/Bret, with Ziggler selling better than anyone has in a long time in the Payback match. -Yep. I remember that promo where he lit into AJ being the best segment AJ has ever had (well, with her as a face), and everything coming out perfectly. His fight with Cena was only the icing for that segment. Additionally, his promo where he tore apart Mick Foley before the Rumble in 2012 was the best promo work he's ever done, and I'll always remember it. -I'm not really sure how that's different from promo...it fits right alongside that. But considering that was the biggest pop in MITB cash-in history, I'd say it's pretty damn memorable. As for the Gunn comparisons, they look alike and use the fameasser. That's the only thing I see here. Ziggler has constantly delivered when he actually gets a big chance (see Survivor Series 2012, TLC 2012, Royal Rumble 2011, Payback 2013, his Raw matches with Cena where he was made to look like utter shit, etc) and he got himself over despite shitty booking and not ever really having a mega familiar background. Yes he sells comically sometimes, but so what? Did Shawn Michaels not do the same thing? How about Mr. Perfect? Where's the hatred for them "making wrestling look too fake" when they wrestled? Same with Hogan's opponents, generally speaking. You would have to be watching wrestling only a couple of years to consider any of those thing memorable to be honest. Either that or your overrating them because your a fan of Dolph's. As for the MitB cash in the crowd was hot that night so no doubt they would have been for a cash in. The pop would have been huge regardless.
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Post by Some Guy on Dec 25, 2013 13:22:18 GMT -5
-Yep. I remember that amazing Bryan/Ziggler match from Bragging Rights 2010 that tied Shawn/Taker for WWE Match of the Year, and completely stole the show while getting the crowd involved. I also remember that string of matches from Ziggler in late 2011 on Raw, where he had top of the line matches with Orton and Punk. Finally, I'll remember the best double turn in a match since Austin/Bret, with Ziggler selling better than anyone has in a long time in the Payback match. -Yep. I remember that promo where he lit into AJ being the best segment AJ has ever had (well, with her as a face), and everything coming out perfectly. His fight with Cena was only the icing for that segment. Additionally, his promo where he tore apart Mick Foley before the Rumble in 2012 was the best promo work he's ever done, and I'll always remember it. -I'm not really sure how that's different from promo...it fits right alongside that. But considering that was the biggest pop in MITB cash-in history, I'd say it's pretty damn memorable. As for the Gunn comparisons, they look alike and use the fameasser. That's the only thing I see here. Ziggler has constantly delivered when he actually gets a big chance (see Survivor Series 2012, TLC 2012, Royal Rumble 2011, Payback 2013, his Raw matches with Cena where he was made to look like utter shit, etc) and he got himself over despite shitty booking and not ever really having a mega familiar background. Yes he sells comically sometimes, but so what? Did Shawn Michaels not do the same thing? How about Mr. Perfect? Where's the hatred for them "making wrestling look too fake" when they wrestled? Same with Hogan's opponents, generally speaking. You would have to be watching wrestling only a couple of years to consider any of those thing memorable to be honest. Either that or your overrating them because your a fan of Dolph's. As for the MitB cash in the crowd was hot that night so no doubt they would have been for a cash in. The pop would have been huge regardless. I've been watching for 15 years, and I consider them perfectly memorable, so that's a bit insulting. And yes the crowd was hot that not, but they were specifically hottest for Ziggler. They were chanting for Ziggler throughout the ADR vs Swaggie/Coulter match, and they were chanting for him as soon as the match started. You can say "oh it would have been huge for anyone," but it wouldn't have been THAT huge for someone that isn't Ziggler.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Dec 25, 2013 13:36:24 GMT -5
Yeah Ziggler's a monster in the ring. Everything he does has so much emphasis to it, he said in an interview he tries to make the audience "feel" the match and he excels at that. It's all about what you're looking for in wrestling though. If you don't care about that stuff, you're not really going to like the guy, because that's the main thing he brings to the table.
If he gets 15 minutes or so to have a match, I am enthralled watching him. If others don't feel that way, that doesn't mean I'm incorrect or I'm excited over nothing. He's got something, it's just not what everyone wants.
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