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Post by Sir Woodrow on Feb 8, 2014 16:23:36 GMT -5
How "unstoppable" is Juggernaut's neck?
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Goldenbane
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Post by Goldenbane on Feb 8, 2014 17:42:22 GMT -5
If we want to talk people who can take Superman in the Marvel Universe, Thor, Asgardian Destroyer, Hulk (if he can overcome the speed), and Silver Surfer are all easy top contenders. Guys like Juggernaut and Abomination...while powerful and dangerous, just don't have all the tools to get the job done. It's completely unfair to call Juggernaut a "c-list loser" as he is one of the big villains of the MU, but still, he can't get it done against the Man of Steel.
With the others I've listed, Asgardian Destroyer and Silver Surfer not only have the speed, strength, and equal invulnerability, but they also have a billion other powers like molecule control, disintegration, and gobs of energy absorption. With Thor, his hammer is basically like carrying a little Silver Surfer or Asgardian Destroyer, it can pretty much do anything. Thor's speed is always criminally underestimated by fans of these battles too...he can keep up with Superman, maybe not with running, but with flying and pure out striking ability definitely. The Hulk has more than enough strength, endurance, and invulnerability to hang with Superman, and he's always been a cunning little troll...having fought and defeated speedsters many, many times. His lack of movement powers is a huge disadvantage for sure, however.
Juggernaut, while most likely invulnerable to a lot of Superman's basic attacks has neither the cunning, or the "pull a power out of my butt ability" like the others have.
Superman win ratio (in my opinion):
Vs. the Surfer- 3/10 times (Superman is in a lot of trouble here) Vs. Asgardian Destroyer- 0/10 times (I don't think Thor himself has ever beaten it without some goofy McGuffin...even the Hulk had to resort to that) Vs. Thor- 4/10 (Extremely close bout, but I give Thor the edge) Vs. Hulk- 6/10 (Tough fight, but this time it goes in Superman's favor) Vs. Juggernaut- 9/10 (There's always a chance Jugg's invulnerability might win him the day, but I really don't like his chances)
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Post by Red Impact on Feb 8, 2014 17:53:36 GMT -5
Superman win ratio (in my opinion): Vs. the Surfer- 3/10 times (Superman is in a lot of trouble here) Vs. Asgardian Destroyer- 0/10 times (I don't think Thor himself has ever beaten it without some goofy McGuffin...even the Hulk had to resort to that) Vs. Thor- 4/10 (Extremely close bout, but I give Thor the edge) Vs. Hulk- 6/10 (Tough fight, but this time it goes in Superman's favor) Vs. Juggernaut- 9/10 (There's always a chance Jugg's invulnerability might win him the day, but I really don't like his chances) I'd put the ratio at 1/10 against Surfer. I'd go far enough to say that Surfer has a pretty easy time unless he lets Superman camp in the sun for a century or so.
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H-Virus
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Post by H-Virus on Feb 8, 2014 18:16:56 GMT -5
If we were talking about the reality-punching Trion Juggernaut, then yeah, he could win.
Normal Juggernaut? No.
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Chip
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Slam Jam Death.
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Post by Chip on Feb 8, 2014 18:19:09 GMT -5
Super-Man beat Hulk, twice, I would put my money on Super-Man
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Feb 8, 2014 18:20:26 GMT -5
The problem with a Superman vs. Luke Cage fight is what do you do in the second panel? One punch, and Luke is down, if not dead.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Feb 8, 2014 19:12:10 GMT -5
Superman, and it's not even close. It doesn't matter if you're an irresistible force if you can never hit your target, and Superman laughs at Juggernaut's max speed. The only possibility that it'd be an actual physical fight would be if Juggernaut started rampaging through a city, and then it's not really a 'pure fight'. Beyond that, Superman would easily be able to avoid anything he did since Juggernaut can't fly and is slow compared to him. I hadn't thought of that. I was all set to say 'Juggernaut, because he's magic and the boy scout can't take his magic.' But that kinda relies on Juggy catching the blue bastard.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2014 19:15:32 GMT -5
If we want to talk people who can take Superman in the Marvel Universe, Thor, Asgardian Destroyer, Hulk (if he can overcome the speed), and Silver Surfer are all easy top contenders. Guys like Juggernaut and Abomination...while powerful and dangerous, just don't have all the tools to get the job done. It's completely unfair to call Juggernaut a "c-list loser" as he is one of the big villains of the MU, but still, he can't get it done against the Man of Steel. With the others I've listed, Asgardian Destroyer and Silver Surfer not only have the speed, strength, and equal invulnerability, but they also have a billion other powers like molecule control, disintegration, and gobs of energy absorption. With Thor, his hammer is basically like carrying a little Silver Surfer or Asgardian Destroyer, it can pretty much do anything. Thor's speed is always criminally underestimated by fans of these battles too...he can keep up with Superman, maybe not with running, but with flying and pure out striking ability definitely. The Hulk has more than enough strength, endurance, and invulnerability to hang with Superman, and he's always been a cunning little troll...having fought and defeated speedsters many, many times. His lack of movement powers is a huge disadvantage for sure, however. Juggernaut, while most likely invulnerable to a lot of Superman's basic attacks has neither the cunning, or the "pull a power out of my butt ability" like the others have. Superman win ratio (in my opinion): Vs. the Surfer- 3/10 times (Superman is in a lot of trouble here) Vs. Asgardian Destroyer- 0/10 times (I don't think Thor himself has ever beaten it without some goofy McGuffin...even the Hulk had to resort to that) Vs. Thor- 4/10 (Extremely close bout, but I give Thor the edge) Vs. Hulk- 6/10 (Tough fight, but this time it goes in Superman's favor) Vs. Juggernaut- 9/10 (There's always a chance Jugg's invulnerability might win him the day, but I really don't like his chances) The problem with Thor vs. Superman is that Thor is vulnerable if he loses his hammer. He loses his hammer, you just know Superman will be able to pick it up.
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Chip
Hank Scorpio
Slam Jam Death.
Posts: 5,185
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Post by Chip on Feb 8, 2014 19:26:18 GMT -5
The problem with a Superman vs. Luke Cage fight is what do you do in the second panel? One punch, and Luke is down, if not dead. A lot of fans confuse unbreakable skin with unbreakable everything else I've noticed, just because a gunshot doesn't break the skin doesn't mean it doesn't hurt like hell. I haven't read it in a while but I recall during World War Hulk there being a really good example of this.
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Post by Mr. Emoticon Man, TF Fan on Feb 8, 2014 19:26:39 GMT -5
If we want to talk people who can take Superman in the Marvel Universe, Thor, Asgardian Destroyer, Hulk (if he can overcome the speed), and Silver Surfer are all easy top contenders. Guys like Juggernaut and Abomination...while powerful and dangerous, just don't have all the tools to get the job done. It's completely unfair to call Juggernaut a "c-list loser" as he is one of the big villains of the MU, but still, he can't get it done against the Man of Steel. With the others I've listed, Asgardian Destroyer and Silver Surfer not only have the speed, strength, and equal invulnerability, but they also have a billion other powers like molecule control, disintegration, and gobs of energy absorption. With Thor, his hammer is basically like carrying a little Silver Surfer or Asgardian Destroyer, it can pretty much do anything. Thor's speed is always criminally underestimated by fans of these battles too...he can keep up with Superman, maybe not with running, but with flying and pure out striking ability definitely. The Hulk has more than enough strength, endurance, and invulnerability to hang with Superman, and he's always been a cunning little troll...having fought and defeated speedsters many, many times. His lack of movement powers is a huge disadvantage for sure, however. Juggernaut, while most likely invulnerable to a lot of Superman's basic attacks has neither the cunning, or the "pull a power out of my butt ability" like the others have. Superman win ratio (in my opinion): Vs. the Surfer- 3/10 times (Superman is in a lot of trouble here) Vs. Asgardian Destroyer- 0/10 times (I don't think Thor himself has ever beaten it without some goofy McGuffin...even the Hulk had to resort to that) Vs. Thor- 4/10 (Extremely close bout, but I give Thor the edge) Vs. Hulk- 6/10 (Tough fight, but this time it goes in Superman's favor) Vs. Juggernaut- 9/10 (There's always a chance Jugg's invulnerability might win him the day, but I really don't like his chances) The problem with Thor vs. Superman is that Thor is vulnerable if he loses his hammer. He loses his hammer, you just know Superman will be able to pick it up. Nope. He can lift it if Thor lets him, but otherwise he can't. We saw that in the Avengers/JLA cross-over.
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Post by Koda, Master Crunchyroller on Feb 8, 2014 20:08:08 GMT -5
The problem with Thor vs. Superman is that Thor is vulnerable if he loses his hammer. He loses his hammer, you just know Superman will be able to pick it up. Nope. He can lift it if Thor lets him, but otherwise he can't. We saw that in the Avengers/JLA cross-over. Don't you just have to be worthy to pick up Mjolnir?
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Legion
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Post by Legion on Feb 8, 2014 20:14:47 GMT -5
Nope. He can lift it if Thor lets him, but otherwise he can't. We saw that in the Avengers/JLA cross-over. Don't you just have to be worthy to pick up Mjolnir? And Superman wasn't.
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Post by Red Impact on Feb 8, 2014 20:22:04 GMT -5
Nope. He can lift it if Thor lets him, but otherwise he can't. We saw that in the Avengers/JLA cross-over. Don't you just have to be worthy to pick up Mjolnir? I think the rules vary depending on who's writing. I may be wrong, but at this point, I think that as long as Thor is alive and in his Thor form (since they took that 60 second weakness from him), only those he or Odin deems worthy can lift it.
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H-Virus
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Post by H-Virus on Feb 8, 2014 20:22:05 GMT -5
The only DC character I can remember being able to hold Mjolnir (without Thor's permission) was Wonder Woman, and that was back in the old Marvel vs DC fights. If anyone else has done it, I haven't read it.
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Post by Koda, Master Crunchyroller on Feb 8, 2014 20:22:25 GMT -5
Don't you just have to be worthy to pick up Mjolnir? And Superman wasn't. Which.....well let's be honest that's bullshit. There isn't anyone in DC more worthy than Supes. He's basically Captain America with even more powers. And I'm pretty sure Cap lifted Mjolnir, didn't he?
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Johnny B. Decent
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Post by Johnny B. Decent on Feb 8, 2014 20:25:53 GMT -5
Which.....well let's be honest that's bullshit. There isn't anyone in DC more worthy than Supes. He's basically Captain America with even more powers. And I'm pretty sure Cap lifted Mjolnir, didn't he? I think it's more Superman doesn't have a warrior-like mentality while someone like Wonder Woman does.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Feb 8, 2014 20:46:19 GMT -5
Which.....well let's be honest that's bullshit. There isn't anyone in DC more worthy than Supes. He's basically Captain America with even more powers. And I'm pretty sure Cap lifted Mjolnir, didn't he? He did. Busiek did the second bit as a pretty obvious joke where Supes was like "hey wait, what?" after he'd hefted it that entire issue.
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Legion
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Post by Legion on Feb 8, 2014 20:49:00 GMT -5
Which.....well let's be honest that's bullshit. There isn't anyone in DC more worthy than Supes. He's basically Captain America with even more powers. And I'm pretty sure Cap lifted Mjolnir, didn't he? I'd suspect the idea is either a) he doesnt believe himself worthy, so his own mental block stops him or b) he isnt actually worthy because he's got that dark little voice inside that tells him he could actually conquer everything and make it better and just because he doesnt listen, doesnt mean it isnt there. I do believe the only people who've been able to pick up Mjolnir from DC is Wonder Woman, while in Marvel it's only been Thor, Thuderstrike, Rogue, Storm, Cap and randomly Air Walker plus the odd descendent or Asgardian ancestor.
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Post by Cela on Feb 8, 2014 20:55:29 GMT -5
It goes like that.
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Post by Red Impact on Feb 8, 2014 21:10:20 GMT -5
Which.....well let's be honest that's bullshit. There isn't anyone in DC more worthy than Supes. He's basically Captain America with even more powers. And I'm pretty sure Cap lifted Mjolnir, didn't he? I'd suspect the idea is either a) he doesnt believe himself worthy, so his own mental block stops him or b) he isnt actually worthy because he's got that dark little voice inside that tells him he could actually conquer everything and make it better and just because he doesnt listen, doesnt mean it isnt there. I do believe the only people who've been able to pick up Mjolnir from DC is Wonder Woman, while in Marvel it's only been Thor, Thuderstrike, Rogue, Storm, Cap and randomly Air Walker plus the odd descendent or Asgardian ancestor. Superman did lift it in the crossover. It was during a battle that he needed it to save the universe. Afterwards, he was unable to lift it to give it back, so I think the implication was, if you're not Thor, then unless you are fighting for a worthy cause you cannot lift the hammer.
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