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Post by rowdy426 on Apr 25, 2014 9:50:54 GMT -5
Kane had mood lighting before Sin Cara ever did.
Survivor Series 1997
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Dragonfly
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Post by Dragonfly on Apr 25, 2014 21:59:06 GMT -5
Way back when, I was a huge Crash Holly mark. Rewatching these shows from 2000 reminded me why. He wasn't Kurt Angle or anything but damn, he was fun.
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Post by OGBoardPoster2005 on Apr 26, 2014 0:21:10 GMT -5
Nailz had a weird voice. There is no way that is his actually voice. He reminds me of Joe Kines.
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Apr 26, 2014 0:42:41 GMT -5
Nailz had a weird voice. There is no way that is his actually voice. He reminds me of Joe Kines. I wish they had someone wrestle for him, too. Did he have any moves that weren't "choke a guy. choke again. try choking him."?
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Post by OGBoardPoster2005 on Apr 26, 2014 0:44:34 GMT -5
Nailz had a weird voice. There is no way that is his actually voice. He reminds me of Joe Kines. I wish they had someone wrestle for him, too. Did he have any moves that weren't "choke a guy. choke again. try choking him."? Going by his 2 matches I've watched (Virgil at Summerslam, Bossman at Survivor Series), he's very limited.
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Post by "Evil Brood" Jackson Vanik on Apr 26, 2014 0:46:42 GMT -5
I have begun watching all WCW PPVs in order (unsure if I have the stamina for this), but one strange thing I noticed was that the first three matches in NWA PPV history were tag team matches (all won by the heels as well!).
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Post by flowercity on Apr 26, 2014 0:53:49 GMT -5
I have begun watching all WCW PPVs in order (unsure if I have the stamina for this), but one strange thing I noticed was that the first three matches in NWA PPV history were tag team matches (all won by the heels as well!). I never really closely followed WCW but man, there were so many tag team matches. Feels like there is at least 3 on every PPV from like 89-92.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2014 2:05:59 GMT -5
That it wasn't 18 seconds that "started" the "yes movement" there were already quite a few Yes signs in the crowd and fans chanting it before the match with Sheamus even started. I was able to attend that Mania, the YES thing was in full force all day before we were even let into the arena. Then once we got in the concourses were full of people Yes-hopping around, never seen anything like it. It was awesome!
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Post by Shark on Apr 26, 2014 3:04:46 GMT -5
When Kane eliminated 10 people in the 2001 Rumble, it wasn't that big a deal. Like the announcers didn't really focus on it or keep count like they did with Reigns this year.
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Post by Mozenrath on Apr 26, 2014 3:32:21 GMT -5
When Kane eliminated 10 people in the 2001 Rumble, it wasn't that big a deal. Like the announcers didn't really focus on it or keep count like they did with Reigns this year. It depends on how you look at it. It wasn't harped on as a new record, but there was some audible booing, if I remember, when Austin won. Not that fans didn't want him to, he was definitely over and well liked, but I remember Kane getting increasing fan support as the match went on, and a number of people were rooting for him. Granted, it's been more than 10 years since I saw it last, so I might be way off.
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Post by kingoftheindies on Apr 26, 2014 12:00:30 GMT -5
I have begun watching all WCW PPVs in order (unsure if I have the stamina for this), but one strange thing I noticed was that the first three matches in NWA PPV history were tag team matches (all won by the heels as well!). I never really closely followed WCW but man, there were so many tag team matches. Feels like there is at least 3 on every PPV from like 89-92. Back then WCW went out of their way to get as many people on the card as they could. . Also there were 2 tag team titles. .. The World and the US tag titles so they tried to make both mean something
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Apr 26, 2014 16:11:45 GMT -5
Chyna from Royal Rumble 1999 to SummerSlam 2000 when her head was on straight, a team player, and looked very good at times: I thought she was a terrific on-screen character. It is sometimes very obvious just how protected she could be by the company and her coworkers, hiding her weaknesses, but she was interesting when she was clicking. She achieved things no other women had ever managed in their careers, and precious few others have managed since. In fact she's still the only woman to have done a few things like be no. 1 contender for the WWF title and be an IC champion.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2014 20:45:44 GMT -5
Hulk Hogan was even more "controversial" in 1994 than Johm Cena is today. I just watched Halloween Havoc 94 for the first time and man he was DETESTED by about 50-75% of the audience.
We know how the NWO revitalized his career...the WWE should pull the trigger on a Cena heel run. Johan's legacy wasn't tarnished by being a "bad guy" for a while...
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Post by Mozenrath on Apr 26, 2014 21:23:46 GMT -5
Hulk Hogan was even more "controversial" in 1994 than Johm Cena is today. I just watched Halloween Havoc 94 for the first time and man he was DETESTED by about 50-75% of the audience. We know how the NWO revitalized his career...the WWE should pull the trigger on a Cena heel run. Johan's legacy wasn't tarnished by being a "bad guy" for a while... It's always tempting, and I'd be fine with it, but Cena sells more merch for them than anyone else, without exception, and fulfills hundreds of Make a Wish wishes for kids who absolutely love him. While it might make adults more favorable to him, crowd reaction is just part of what matters in the big picture of WWE, and turning him heel might bite WWE in the ass hard.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2014 22:37:42 GMT -5
Hulk Hogan was even more "controversial" in 1994 than Johm Cena is today. I just watched Halloween Havoc 94 for the first time and man he was DETESTED by about 50-75% of the audience. We know how the NWO revitalized his career...the WWE should pull the trigger on a Cena heel run. Johan's legacy wasn't tarnished by being a "bad guy" for a while... It's always tempting, and I'd be fine with it, but Cena sells more merch for them than anyone else, without exception, and fulfills hundreds of Make a Wish wishes for kids who absolutely love him. While it might make adults more favorable to him, crowd reaction is just part of what matters in the big picture of WWE, and turning him heel might bite WWE in the ass hard. I'm definitely on the "We Need Less SuperCena" bandwagon, but I agree that turning him would probably bite WWE in the ass. WCW had almost no choice with Hogan. He was absolutely used up. A discarded husk of what he used to be with all of the juice sucked out of him (literally). They basically had nothing to lose. While a good chunk of the WWE fanbase hates Cena, he's not quite at that point yet. Turning Cena now would end up closer to Stone Cold's heel turn than Hogan's.
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Post by The Tim Duncan Experience on Apr 27, 2014 1:08:18 GMT -5
After watching a lot of the WWF ppvs from the mid to late 80s, I realized Gorilla Moonsoon couldn't differentiate a flip from a 360 spin
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2014 1:40:04 GMT -5
It's always tempting, and I'd be fine with it, but Cena sells more merch for them than anyone else, without exception, and fulfills hundreds of Make a Wish wishes for kids who absolutely love him. While it might make adults more favorable to him, crowd reaction is just part of what matters in the big picture of WWE, and turning him heel might bite WWE in the ass hard. I'm definitely on the "We Need Less SuperCena" bandwagon, but I agree that turning him would probably bite WWE in the ass. WCW had almost no choice with Hogan. He was absolutely used up. A discarded husk of what he used to be with all of the juice sucked out of him (literally). They basically had nothing to lose. While a good chunk of the WWE fanbase hates Cena, he's not quite at that point yet. Turning Cena now would end up closer to Stone Cold's heel turn than Hogan's. Yeah, I definitely wasn't meaning to suggest that WWE absolutely HAS to turn Cena, but one of the reasons I always hear is that he is popular with the kids, does too much PR work like Make-A-Wish for the company, sells too much merchandise, etc... and a heel turn at this point in his career would tarnish his reputation. But, from what I've seen, Hogan in 1993-1995 was largely the same situation. He was beloved by children and casual fans, but his stale character was hated by older male fans and he started getting a sharply divided reaction. WCW went ahead and pulled the trigger on making him a heel, but they did it the right way with a trendy, shades of gray, character. His merchandise still sold, his character was revitalized, and he was able to carry the company through its biggest boom period almost 20 years past his prime. Today, he is back to portraying his face character and is considered one of the all-time greats. His long term legacy wasn't tarnished by the NWO in any way. I think that the same COULD be done with Cena. Yeah, a heel turn could be disastrous...but I think that, if done the right way, it could also help him recapture the magic that he had at the beginning of last decade and make him a more interesting character in this forthcoming era of Daniel Bryan possibly being the featured guy. The question, of course, is whether the current writers would be able to do a turn "the right way".
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Post by The Summer of Muskrat XVII on Apr 27, 2014 2:02:29 GMT -5
Not learned, but just remembered Miss Elizabeth is gone. Damn
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2014 2:32:59 GMT -5
I'm definitely on the "We Need Less SuperCena" bandwagon, but I agree that turning him would probably bite WWE in the ass. WCW had almost no choice with Hogan. He was absolutely used up. A discarded husk of what he used to be with all of the juice sucked out of him (literally). They basically had nothing to lose. While a good chunk of the WWE fanbase hates Cena, he's not quite at that point yet. Turning Cena now would end up closer to Stone Cold's heel turn than Hogan's. Yeah, I definitely wasn't meaning to suggest that WWE absolutely HAS to turn Cena, but one of the reasons I always hear is that he is popular with the kids, does too much PR work like Make-A-Wish for the company, sells too much merchandise, etc... and a heel turn at this point in his career would tarnish his reputation. But, from what I've seen, Hogan in 1993-1995 was largely the same situation. He was beloved by children and casual fans, but his stale character was hated by older male fans and he started getting a sharply divided reaction. WCW went ahead and pulled the trigger on making him a heel, but they did it the right way with a trendy, shades of gray, character. His merchandise still sold, his character was revitalized, and he was able to carry the company through its biggest boom period almost 20 years past his prime. Today, he is back to portraying his face character and is considered one of the all-time greats. His long term legacy wasn't tarnished by the NWO in any way. I think that the same COULD be done with Cena. Yeah, a heel turn could be disastrous...but I think that, if done the right way, it could also help him recapture the magic that he had at the beginning of last decade and make him a more interesting character in this forthcoming era of Daniel Bryan possibly being the featured guy. The question, of course, is whether the current writers would be able to do a turn "the right way". You're trying to compare the Hogan of '96 to the Cena of today and there's just no real comparison other than your excuse of "he's hated by the older fanbase". You're way off in saying that the Hogan of 93-95 was the same situation. Hogan's popularity had deteriorated immensely since joining WCW. You were right in that he was most "beloved" by children, but even his popularity with them had dwindled and, while he was still the most "known" wrestler to casual fans, he wasn't nearly "beloved" by them anymore. Hogan still offered WCW a steady stream of cash, sure, but they were paying for a rushing river. Again, with Sting, Savage, Luger, Flair etc they felt they had nothing much to lose. (And Bischoff was willing to lose it) Turning heel also helped Hogan tremendously as he had lost huge amounts of muscle mass and his in-ring skills had deteriorated drastically. He was much more suited to cowardly acts and heel brawling tactics than superman comebacks and feats of strength. John Cena today is in an entirely different situation. He's been wrestling about 5 years less than Hogan had been in 96 and say what you will about Cena's in-ring skills, he hasn't been getting any *worse*, in fact I'd honestly say he's better in-ring than he ever has been. Turning Hogan in 96 in retrospect was a mercy-killing that saved Hulkamania, putting it on ice for later. He had lost traction with every demographic, was totally stale, his heart wasn't really into it as much anymore and he seemed unwelcome among the WCW-faithful fans. Straight, adult male WWE fans just want to see less of Cena because we're sick of seeing him on top and/or think he's holding back others we would rather see more. There's a huge difference.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2014 3:43:49 GMT -5
Yeah, I definitely wasn't meaning to suggest that WWE absolutely HAS to turn Cena, but one of the reasons I always hear is that he is popular with the kids, does too much PR work like Make-A-Wish for the company, sells too much merchandise, etc... and a heel turn at this point in his career would tarnish his reputation. But, from what I've seen, Hogan in 1993-1995 was largely the same situation. He was beloved by children and casual fans, but his stale character was hated by older male fans and he started getting a sharply divided reaction. WCW went ahead and pulled the trigger on making him a heel, but they did it the right way with a trendy, shades of gray, character. His merchandise still sold, his character was revitalized, and he was able to carry the company through its biggest boom period almost 20 years past his prime. Today, he is back to portraying his face character and is considered one of the all-time greats. His long term legacy wasn't tarnished by the NWO in any way. I think that the same COULD be done with Cena. Yeah, a heel turn could be disastrous...but I think that, if done the right way, it could also help him recapture the magic that he had at the beginning of last decade and make him a more interesting character in this forthcoming era of Daniel Bryan possibly being the featured guy. The question, of course, is whether the current writers would be able to do a turn "the right way". You're trying to compare the Hogan of '96 to the Cena of today and there's just no real comparison other than your excuse of "he's hated by the older fanbase". You're way off in saying that the Hogan of 93-95 was the same situation. Hogan's popularity had deteriorated immensely since joining WCW. You were right in that he was most "beloved" by children, but even his popularity with them had dwindled and, while he was still the most "known" wrestler to casual fans, he wasn't nearly "beloved" by them anymore. Hogan still offered WCW a steady stream of cash, sure, but they were paying for a rushing river. Again, with Sting, Savage, Luger, Flair etc they felt they had nothing much to lose. (And Bischoff was willing to lose it) Turning heel also helped Hogan tremendously as he had lost huge amounts of muscle mass and his in-ring skills had deteriorated drastically. He was much more suited to cowardly acts and heel brawling tactics than superman comebacks and feats of strength. John Cena today is in an entirely different situation. He's been wrestling about 5 years less than Hogan had been in 96 and say what you will about Cena's in-ring skills, he hasn't been getting any *worse*, in fact I'd honestly say he's better in-ring than he ever has been. Turning Hogan in 96 in retrospect was a mercy-killing that saved Hulkamania, putting it on ice for later. He had lost traction with every demographic, was totally stale, his heart wasn't really into it as much anymore and he seemed unwelcome among the WCW-faithful fans. Straight, adult male WWE fans just want to see less of Cena because we're sick of seeing him on top and/or think he's holding back others we would rather see more. There's a huge difference. I mostly agree with what you are saying, but I was more comparing the Hogan of '94 to the Cena of now (particularly Hogan c. Halloween Havoc 1994, which I had just watched when I made my original post).In 1994, Hulkamania was still popular with casual wrestling fans, and certainly popular enough to main event PPVs and push merchandise, but was getting "Hogan Sucks" chants from the majority of the "straight, adult male" demographic. Early '96 Hogan is more of a worst case scenario as far as Cena is concerned, and I honestly don't ever see him getting to the level of vitriol that the WCW fans were showering Hogan with by that point. The dynamic of being perceived as a sports entertainment guy phoning it in for a huge payday in an old school rasslin' company obviously doesn't exist anymore and Cena is 10 years younger than and twice the wrestler that Hogan was at that point. But, I do think that hatred was largely the product of antiquated booking pitting Hogan against a revolving door of unbeatable odds and over the top villains, much like what has created the contempt that does exist for Cena. Granted, I was only 4-6 years old when all this was going on, and am going strictly based on what I've seen watching stuff on the network and what I've seen recently from Cena. As I said, WWE doesn't HAVE to turn Cena heel, I don't think it's imperative for the continued success of the company or to usher in the mythical new boom period, but I honestly don't think it would have the detrimental effect that a lot of people seem to think it would. With Daniel Bryan stepping up recently to the role of top babyface, Cena taking the role of paranoid, bitter, veteran (exactly like Hollywood Hogan started out) would be a nice change of pace and would offer a compelling story. Plus, if it were to bomb, he has built up enough goodwill at this point that he could give another promo saying he lost track of what was important, etc.. and go back to the status quo pretty easily, I think.
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