|
Post by bluemeii on Aug 14, 2014 0:03:50 GMT -5
Saw that at a joint practice between the Raiders and the Cowboys, after a scuffle, a Raiders' fan swung and hit a Cowboys player with a souvenir helmet. The player then went after the fan before security stepped in. Raider's fans....showing more fight than the team since 2002.
|
|
nate5054
Hank Scorpio
Lucky to be alive in the Chris Jericho Era
Posts: 7,016
|
Post by nate5054 on Aug 14, 2014 2:46:28 GMT -5
The Washington Post reports the NFL is considering toughening up its penalties against players who commit domestic violence, including a potential one-year ban for a second offense. Way to take a stand NFL. So beating a woman twice is like getting caught smoking weed 3 times. Lovely. Perhaps they should treat it like drunk driving. I remember this one guy who drove drunk and killed a woman. Got a whole 8 game suspension for that. But he did make a Superbowl saving tackle, so yay. Then he got another DUI. Got a whopping 0 game suspension for that. The NFL is awesome when it comes to logic and discipline.
|
|
nate5054
Hank Scorpio
Lucky to be alive in the Chris Jericho Era
Posts: 7,016
|
Post by nate5054 on Aug 14, 2014 2:48:05 GMT -5
Per the report, a first offense would mean a 4-6 game suspension and a season-long ban for a second-time offender. Wow, what a tough stand the NFL is taking. So the first time you knock a woman unconscious it's now just going to potentially be the same penalty as smoking weed once, and not less.
|
|
|
Post by Kevin Hamilton on Aug 14, 2014 3:29:47 GMT -5
Exactly. Plus, why do we have to have to have 'baby steps' for this? Seems pretty simple, zero tolerance. There's no rationale to not have an immediate one year ban.
|
|
|
Post by Error on Aug 14, 2014 9:12:30 GMT -5
Wouldn't the new punishment for domestic abuse need to be collectively bargained and thus the NFL taking baby steps an easier way to get it in than just jumping straight to a long term ban that the PA would fight tooth and nail?
|
|
|
Post by bluemeii on Aug 14, 2014 10:15:57 GMT -5
Wouldn't the new punishment for domestic abuse need to be collectively bargained and thus the NFL taking baby steps an easier way to get it in than just jumping straight to a long term ban that the PA would fight tooth and nail? Yep. As it is now it's just kinda lumped into "conduct detrimental to league" and the commish only has so much leeway with that one. No way the NFLPA would let their guys get suspended without pay for a year for one offense. As it is now they can't get the HGH testing through because of the penalty structure, this would just be another thing sitting in limbo if they went to them with a one year/first offense structure.
|
|
BRV
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Wants him some Taco Flavored Kisses.
Posts: 17,080
|
Post by BRV on Aug 14, 2014 10:36:31 GMT -5
Wouldn't the new punishment for domestic abuse need to be collectively bargained and thus the NFL taking baby steps an easier way to get it in than just jumping straight to a long term ban that the PA would fight tooth and nail? Yep. As it is now it's just kinda lumped into "conduct detrimental to league" and the commish only has so much leeway with that one. No way the NFLPA would let their guys get suspended without pay for a year for one offense. As it is now they can't get the HGH testing through because of the penalty structure, this would just be another thing sitting in limbo if they went to them with a one year/first offense structure. As great as it would look for the NFL to take a zero tolerance stance against domestic violence and as much as fans would approve of a season-long ban for anyone charged with domestic abuse, there is absolutely no way the Players' Association would ever let that happen. Taking "baby steps" is better than taking no steps at all, and it is essentially the best the NFL can do. The ugly and sad truth about the NFL is that there is a segment of its players who believe in their own aura of invincibility off the field, and believe they can hit their wives/girlfriends with no repercussions. Since 2000, approximately 100 active NFL players have been charged with domestic violence. So while we can sit here and be universal in our agreement that banning a player for an extended period of time for domestic violence is the right thing to do, the Players' Association will likely fight it, because the union, unfortunately, knows there is a portion of its members who partake in such heinous crimes.
|
|
nate5054
Hank Scorpio
Lucky to be alive in the Chris Jericho Era
Posts: 7,016
|
Post by nate5054 on Aug 14, 2014 14:11:42 GMT -5
Let the NFLPA take the bad press then. At least the NFL could say they tried to punish these guys.
|
|
|
Post by Kevin Hamilton on Aug 14, 2014 14:15:35 GMT -5
Let the NFLPA take the bad press then. At least the NFL could say they tried to punish these guys. Pretty much. Make it know that PA is fighting you on this, and watch em change their tune pretty quickly. Plus, if they know X amount of guys do this (and I'm sure you are correct there), they should WANT those f***ers outta the league.
|
|
BRV
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Wants him some Taco Flavored Kisses.
Posts: 17,080
|
Post by BRV on Aug 14, 2014 14:22:56 GMT -5
Let the NFLPA take the bad press then. At least the NFL could say they tried to punish these guys. Pretty much. Make it know that PA is fighting you on this, and watch em change their tune pretty quickly. Plus, if they know X amount of guys do this (and I'm sure you are correct there), they should WANT those f***ers outta the league. That's the thing, though. These guys are teammates. Notice how there hasn't been a single Baltimore Raven who has said one cross word about Ray Rice since the incident in Atlantic City? Notice how since training camp started, he's received nothing but glowing praise? The players, in addition to the Players' Association, would fight a season-long ban for domestic abuse because they wouldn't want to see their teammates go down in flames.
|
|
|
Post by bluemeii on Aug 14, 2014 14:58:15 GMT -5
Pretty much. Make it know that PA is fighting you on this, and watch em change their tune pretty quickly. Plus, if they know X amount of guys do this (and I'm sure you are correct there), they should WANT those f***ers outta the league. That's the thing, though. These guys are teammates. Notice how there hasn't been a single Baltimore Raven who has said one cross word about Ray Rice since the incident in Atlantic City? Notice how since training camp started, he's received nothing but glowing praise? The players, in addition to the Players' Association, would fight a season-long ban for domestic abuse because they wouldn't want to see their teammates go down in flames. On top of that if you put the PR backlash on the NFLPA, it's going to make everything else they are trying to get done (HGH testing) a ton more difficult to get bargained on. Union is going to do everything in their power to protect their members (as they should).
|
|
BRV
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Wants him some Taco Flavored Kisses.
Posts: 17,080
|
Post by BRV on Aug 14, 2014 15:05:25 GMT -5
That's the thing, though. These guys are teammates. Notice how there hasn't been a single Baltimore Raven who has said one cross word about Ray Rice since the incident in Atlantic City? Notice how since training camp started, he's received nothing but glowing praise? The players, in addition to the Players' Association, would fight a season-long ban for domestic abuse because they wouldn't want to see their teammates go down in flames. On top of that if you put the PR backlash on the NFLPA, it's going to make everything else they are trying to get done (HGH testing) a ton more difficult to get bargained on. Union is going to do everything in their power to protect their members (as they should). Exactly. That's what the NFLPA's job is, to protect the best interest of its members. It appears unseemly to the general public, but this is the same organization that last October filed a grievance against the Patriots on behalf of Aaron Hernandez for Hernandez's 2013 base salary and 2014 salary, as well as workout bonuses and signing bonuses. The exact quote in the NFLPA's statement was: "On behalf of all players, it is our responsibility to protect the rights in the collective bargaining agreement ... We are not tone-deaf to what the allegations are in this case, but for the benefit of all players, there are important precedents here we must protect." So if anyone thinks for one second that the NFLPA will roll over and gladly accept season-long bans for a first domestic abuse charge, they are sorely mistaken. Again, it looks gross and uncaring to the public, but it is what the union is there to do.
|
|
andrew8798
FANatic
on 24/7 this month
Posts: 106,084
|
Post by andrew8798 on Aug 14, 2014 15:53:15 GMT -5
NFL.com's Ian Rapoport reports the Browns will start Brian Hoyer in their second preseason game against the Redskins on Monday.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2014 19:09:17 GMT -5
Jacksonville's uniforms look like an NFL Europe team
|
|
|
Post by Crusty Ruffles on Aug 14, 2014 20:08:45 GMT -5
Jacksonville's uniforms look like an NFL Europe team Those freaking helmets, maaaaaaaaaan. The Bears offense looks good. Offensive line really gave Cutler a lot of time to make some tough throws. Everything else? Shit.
|
|
nate5054
Hank Scorpio
Lucky to be alive in the Chris Jericho Era
Posts: 7,016
|
Post by nate5054 on Aug 15, 2014 5:16:49 GMT -5
That's the thing, though. These guys are teammates. Notice how there hasn't been a single Baltimore Raven who has said one cross word about Ray Rice since the incident in Atlantic City? Notice how since training camp started, he's received nothing but glowing praise? The players, in addition to the Players' Association, would fight a season-long ban for domestic abuse because they wouldn't want to see their teammates go down in flames. On top of that if you put the PR backlash on the NFLPA, it's going to make everything else they are trying to get done (HGH testing) a ton more difficult to get bargained on. Union is going to do everything in their power to protect their members (as they should). Who cares if it makes HGH testing more difficult. If the NFLPA wants to be known as the union that protects wife beaters, they can be. Typically when public outcry is against a party they tend to cave to it. During a lockout public opinion actually matters. I was on the players side during the last lockout. I will not be if they are the defenders of woman beating, and will tolerate a longer lockout if the owners get to hammer them at the end of it. From the NFL's perspective they are the one taking the hit on this, and they should be. A 2 game suspension for knocking a woman unconscious is an absolute travesty. If they want to divert the hit to the NFLPA they should.
|
|
|
Post by bluemeii on Aug 15, 2014 13:36:25 GMT -5
On top of that if you put the PR backlash on the NFLPA, it's going to make everything else they are trying to get done (HGH testing) a ton more difficult to get bargained on. Union is going to do everything in their power to protect their members (as they should). Who cares if it makes HGH testing more difficult. If the NFLPA wants to be known as the union that protects wife beaters, they can be. Typically when public outcry is against a party they tend to cave to it. During a lockout public opinion actually matters. I was on the players side during the last lockout. I will not be if they are the defenders of woman beating, and will tolerate a longer lockout if the owners get to hammer them at the end of it. From the NFL's perspective they are the one taking the hit on this, and they should be. A 2 game suspension for knocking a woman unconscious is an absolute travesty. If they want to divert the hit to the NFLPA they should. They don't want to divert the hit to the NFLPA. That is the most powerful union in the United States. By the time the season starts up, unless Baltimore is coming to your town, it will be a general non issue. Owners have already come out and said they want to change policy and they are actually going to try to sneak some changes in by a loophole in the personal conduct policy, due to their not being anything on the books concerning domestic abuse. Now it's on the NFLPA. They can try to stick their noses in, or just sit back and let it happen. Who knows what will happen on that front. Here's my problem with this whole thing. You got everyone scrambling to make themselves look good after the fact on this. Great you put the penalties in place. Do you really think that's gonna stop Joe Blow Lineman from going home and smacking his wife around if he was going to before. Nope. Getting busted for drugs isn't stopping everyone from lighting up and getting suspended that way. These guys just don't care, they are going to do what they want when they want. The deterrent means nothing to a good majority of them. This wont change the domestic abuse cases involving NFL players one bit. That is the point of all these policies isn't it?
|
|
BRV
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Wants him some Taco Flavored Kisses.
Posts: 17,080
|
Post by BRV on Aug 15, 2014 14:07:15 GMT -5
]Who cares if it makes HGH testing more difficult. If the NFLPA wants to be known as the union that protects wife beaters, they can be. Typically when public outcry is against a party they tend to cave to it. During a lockout public opinion actually matters. I was on the players side during the last lockout. I will not be if they are the defenders of woman beating, and will tolerate a longer lockout if the owners get to hammer them at the end of it. From the NFL's perspective they are the one taking the hit on this, and they should be. A 2 game suspension for knocking a woman unconscious is an absolute travesty. If they want to divert the hit to the NFLPA they should. The NFLPA isn't there to obtain good publicity. The union exists to protect its members. As I've said earlier, they filed grievances on behalf of Aaron Hernandez while he was sitting in a jail cell on murder charges. If they did that, without a care about how it would be viewed publicly, then they would fight a season-long suspension for domestic abuse. They aren't defending beating women, just as their grievance on behalf of Hernandez wasn't defending murder. It was protecting the rights of the members of the union, which is precisely what the NFLPA is there to do. Nobody disagrees that Ray Rice got off light, but that's the problem with the current collective bargaining agreement; it has parameters in place for drug use (performance-enhancing or recreational) but it has nothing set in stone about domestic violence. It's not the league saying, "Smoke and lose a season, but go ahead and hit your wife." It's the league and union agreeing to a CBA and abiding by that agreement.
|
|
nate5054
Hank Scorpio
Lucky to be alive in the Chris Jericho Era
Posts: 7,016
|
Post by nate5054 on Aug 15, 2014 14:30:05 GMT -5
Who cares if it makes HGH testing more difficult. If the NFLPA wants to be known as the union that protects wife beaters, they can be. Typically when public outcry is against a party they tend to cave to it. During a lockout public opinion actually matters. I was on the players side during the last lockout. I will not be if they are the defenders of woman beating, and will tolerate a longer lockout if the owners get to hammer them at the end of it. From the NFL's perspective they are the one taking the hit on this, and they should be. A 2 game suspension for knocking a woman unconscious is an absolute travesty. If they want to divert the hit to the NFLPA they should. They don't want to divert the hit to the NFLPA. That is the most powerful union in the United States. By the time the season starts up, unless Baltimore is coming to your town, it will be a general non issue. Owners have already come out and said they want to change policy and they are actually going to try to sneak some changes in by a loophole in the personal conduct policy, due to their not being anything on the books concerning domestic abuse. Now it's on the NFLPA. They can try to stick their noses in, or just sit back and let it happen. Who knows what will happen on that front. Here's my problem with this whole thing. You got everyone scrambling to make themselves look good after the fact on this. Great you put the penalties in place. Do you really think that's gonna stop Joe Blow Lineman from going home and smacking his wife around if he was going to before. Nope. Getting busted for drugs isn't stopping everyone from lighting up and getting suspended that way. These guys just don't care, they are going to do what they want when they want. The deterrent means nothing to a good majority of them. This wont change the domestic abuse cases involving NFL players one bit. That is the point of all these policies isn't it? If their strategy is just to hope it all goes away that's a dumb one. Ray Rice won't be the last guy to be charged with this, and every time it happens after him it looks real bad for the NFL. Putting penalties in place is all they can do. It won't stop all instances of domestic violence, but it may make joe blow lineman think about it more if he knows he'll lose a whole year's salary instead of 1/8ths year. Draconian measures work all the time in society. If speeding in your car put you in jail for a year instead of a $100 fine you can bet everyone would be watching their speed. Of course in that case the punishment far outweighs the crime, but the principle is the same.
|
|
nate5054
Hank Scorpio
Lucky to be alive in the Chris Jericho Era
Posts: 7,016
|
Post by nate5054 on Aug 15, 2014 14:39:17 GMT -5
]Who cares if it makes HGH testing more difficult. If the NFLPA wants to be known as the union that protects wife beaters, they can be. Typically when public outcry is against a party they tend to cave to it. During a lockout public opinion actually matters. I was on the players side during the last lockout. I will not be if they are the defenders of woman beating, and will tolerate a longer lockout if the owners get to hammer them at the end of it. From the NFL's perspective they are the one taking the hit on this, and they should be. A 2 game suspension for knocking a woman unconscious is an absolute travesty. If they want to divert the hit to the NFLPA they should. The NFLPA isn't there to obtain good publicity. The union exists to protect its members. As I've said earlier, they filed grievances on behalf of Aaron Hernandez while he was sitting in a jail cell on murder charges. If they did that, without a care about how it would be viewed publicly, then they would fight a season-long suspension for domestic abuse. They aren't defending beating women, just as their grievance on behalf of Hernandez wasn't defending murder. It was protecting the rights of the members of the union, which is precisely what the NFLPA is there to do. Nobody disagrees that Ray Rice got off light, but that's the problem with the current collective bargaining agreement; it has parameters in place for drug use (performance-enhancing or recreational) but it has nothing set in stone about domestic violence. It's not the league saying, "Smoke and lose a season, but go ahead and hit your wife." It's the league and union agreeing to a CBA and abiding by that agreement. They aren't out there to get good publicity? They really seem to try to cater to the public during lockouts. That's harder to do when you are known as a bad organization. If they take this route during the next lockout, if I were the NFL I would bring up this issue every day (saying something to the effect of "we just want just punishment for players who have violently assaulted women but the NFLPA is against it"). And it would work. Though the first thing they would cave on is this if they had any brains. And they absolutely are defending beating women if they are favoring minor punishments for the crime. Punishment is the major way society shows its disapproval towards something. There is no other way to spin it if they are opposed to harsher punishments for domestic violence. It's one thing to fight in terms of what the CBA is at this moment. It's another thing to fight against changes to it to protect wife beaters. And it is the NFL saying "smoke and lose a season, but go ahead and beat your wife." Because that's the punishment in place now. If they gave a damn about domestic violence this would have been in the CBA before this. It wasn't. The NFL now has a chance to remedy this, or at least try. The NFLPA can go against it, but if they do they are the ones who look bad. If they don't care about looking bad fine. I don't believe that is the case though. This is far different from the Hernandez case. That was seen as a technicality for a guy who will never play in the NFL again. With Ray Rice he'll be playing in Week 3 and there's video evidence of him dragging his current wife while she's unconscious. Actually though studying the issue more this seems like a moot issue. Goddell still has total control on punishments for player conduct, and the NFLPA caved on that during the last rounds of the CBA (they tried not to, but they did). So he could have suspended Rice for a year if he wanted to. Sure, the NFLPA could appeal but at least at that point the NFL would be seen as an organization trying to do the right thing.
|
|