BRV
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
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Post by BRV on Mar 13, 2016 22:17:31 GMT -5
"Fantastic Lies" was every bit as enraging and infuriating as I expected to be. It was also one of the most powerful 30 for 30 documentaries yet produced. Although the two stories are wildly different, the most strikingly similar prior documentary for me personally might have been "Hillsborough", because both films are phenomenal but at the same time so gut-wrenching and heart-rending that you can only watch them a few times.
There were so many things said in that documentary that parallel real life and are lessons that still need to be learned. Things like the columnist saying that we (the media or the public) need to perhaps tamp out our rage regarding certain cases before the facts come out. Unfortunately, in the era of social media, in which everyone with access to an internet connection can spew their thoughts in real time 140 characters at a time, we've gone in the opposite direction. The protesters who were seen in this film have probably only had their rhetoric increase in intensity since the Duke lacrosse case. They say lies like "we'll wait until the facts come out," when in actuality all they want is to see these people they believe to be guilty to be found guilty and immediately ostracized because it fits their cozy pre-conceived notions about what the truth is supposed to be, facts be damned.
Another lesson that we should have taken away from the scandal, which was emphasized by one of the teammates, was that the real tragedy of the case, more than the demonization and destruction of three innocent men, is that people try to use it as evidence to try to dismiss real, actual rapes. When a person lies about a sexual assault or a rape, they're not just hurting the people who are being accused, they're hurting the people who are legitimate victims of rape because it diminishes the seriousness of the situation.
This was a scandal born out of the brains out two disreputable, immoral, sleazy people. Crystal Mangum and Mike Nifong did everything in their power to put three innocent people behind bars while at the same time trying to destroy a team, a university, and a community. For Nifong, he lied because this case was his ticket to becoming a celebrity and his 15 minutes of fame were more important to him than a career in law. For Mangum, we'll never know exactly why she is a liar. The film tried to portray her as some innocent victim caught up in the center of a storm but it was her lie that started this all and her commitment to that lie that gave it its legs.
An excellent, heart-breaking, emotional film. I cannot recommend it enough even though I have my reservations as to whether I'll want to watch it again.
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Post by arrogantmodel on Mar 14, 2016 2:52:09 GMT -5
I fully admit to thinking, "They probably did it." when this first hit. Not that I have anything against them or Duke or anything, but the fact that many rapes go unreported or dismissed because it's an athlete doing it.
Yes, throw in that it's some upper class white college kids allegedly assaulting a black exotic dancer, and you've heard this story before. They think nobody will believe her or they can buy their way out of trouble like the "Affluenza" kid.
But it's fantastic that the truth came out and those kids, who I am the same age as, were found completely innocent. I had no problem agreeing with them once more evidence of Nifong's tactics surfaced.
This is terrifying though, to think some rogue prosecutor could gin up charges on you for a crime they know damn well you didn't commit.
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andrew8798
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Post by andrew8798 on Mar 14, 2016 16:17:20 GMT -5
Top 5 episode. They brought up a good point if this happen to the Basketball Program it would have been a different story. Wonder how many people from the lynch mob said they was sorry to the players
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ICBM
King Koopa
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Post by ICBM on Mar 14, 2016 20:32:40 GMT -5
"Fantastic Lies" was every bit as enraging and infuriating as I expected to be. It was also one of the most powerful 30 for 30 documentaries yet produced. Although the two stories are wildly different, the most strikingly similar prior documentary for me personally might have been "Hillsborough", because both films are phenomenal but at the same time so gut-wrenching and heart-rending that you can only watch them a few times. There were so many things said in that documentary that parallel real life and are lessons that still need to be learned. Things like the columnist saying that we (the media or the public) need to perhaps tamp out our rage regarding certain cases before the facts come out. Unfortunately, in the era of social media, in which everyone with access to an internet connection can spew their thoughts in real time 140 characters at a time, we've gone in the opposite direction. The protesters who were seen in this film have probably only had their rhetoric increase in intensity since the Duke lacrosse case. They say lies like "we'll wait until the facts come out," when in actuality all they want is to see these people they believe to be guilty to be found guilty and immediately ostracized because it fits their cozy pre-conceived notions about what the truth is supposed to be, facts be damned. Another lesson that we should have taken away from the scandal, which was emphasized by one of the teammates, was that the real tragedy of the case, more than the demonization and destruction of three innocent men, is that people try to use it as evidence to try to dismiss real, actual rapes. When a person lies about a sexual assault or a rape, they're not just hurting the people who are being accused, they're hurting the people who are legitimate victims of rape because it diminishes the seriousness of the situation. This was a scandal born out of the brains out two disreputable, immoral, sleazy people. Crystal Mangum and Mike Nifong did everything in their power to put three innocent people behind bars while at the same time trying to destroy a team, a university, and a community. For Nifong, he lied because this case was his ticket to becoming a celebrity and his 15 minutes of fame were more important to him than a career in law. For Mangum, we'll never know exactly why she is a liar. The film tried to portray her as some innocent victim caught up in the center of a storm but it was her lie that started this all and her commitment to that lie that gave it its legs. An excellent, heart-breaking, emotional film. I cannot recommend it enough even though I have my reservations as to whether I'll want to watch it again. Post of the year nominee. I've been trying to caution people about not judging based on media coverage or social media spin. I learned to do so mostly thru natural maturation in my age. But a big part was because I too rushed to judgment on this case and the following year I accepted the Benoit murders as a robber or an obsessed fan and watched the Raw tribute show about hm almost in tears. Some times yu need to learn the hard way
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andrew8798
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Post by andrew8798 on Mar 14, 2016 20:40:55 GMT -5
The one on the 90's Magic teams airs on April 14th
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Post by Jedi-El of Tomorrow on Mar 14, 2016 20:44:55 GMT -5
This was a scandal born out of the brains out two disreputable, immoral, sleazy people. Crystal Mangum and Mike Nifong did everything in their power to put three innocent people behind bars while at the same time trying to destroy a team, a university, and a community. For Nifong, he lied because this case was his ticket to becoming a celebrity and his 15 minutes of fame were more important to him than a career in law. For Mangum, we'll never know exactly why she is a liar. The film tried to portray her as some innocent victim caught up in the center of a storm but it was her lie that started this all and her commitment to that lie that gave it its legs. You forgot the cop Gottleib.
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BRV
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
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Post by BRV on Mar 14, 2016 20:52:47 GMT -5
The one on the 90's Magic teams airs on April 14th At first I thought there wasn't enough material to produce a feature-length documentary on the early-1990s Orlando Magic. It struck me as something worthy of a 22-minute 30 for 30 Shorts feature, but that was about it. But watching the commercial that aired Sunday night made me realize that not only could be the story be spread out over an hour, it could be REALLY good. I easily forget how much of a comet that Magic team was. They flashed across the sky, became an incredible sports and pop culture sensation, and they were gone with little fanfare. But there were so many moments. The team going from expansion also-ran to NBA Finals contender in six years; drafting Shaquille O'Neal; winning the NBA Draft Lottery in back-to-back years and having the stones to trade Chris Webber - the consensus first-overall pick - for Anfernee Hardaway following a possible apocryphal legendary workout; challenging the Jordan-less and Jordan-led Chicago Bulls; the team's two star attractions testing their mettle in Hollywood; the departure of Shaq. As a child growing up in the early 90s, I had more Orlando Magic gear than I did Boston Celtics gear because the Magic were just so cool. They were fun, anti-establishment, bright, colorful, and exciting. And did anyone really hate the Magic? I'm sure Bulls, Knicks, or Heat fans disliked them but for all their flash and instant popularity, nobody outright hated them. They really were one of those teams we'll never see again, the sports equivalent of a one-hit wonder. As an aside, I really hope the film dedicates at least a few minutes to the rumor that Bill Simmons touched upon in "The Book of Basketball" or a Grantland post, in which the Magic front office in 1993 or 1994 apparently tried to lure Larry Bird and Magic Johnson out of retirement to play with Shaq, Penny, Nick Anderson, Horace Grant, and the bunch. I don't think it's ever been confirmed that this actually happened but it'd be a fun little moment to see them discuss.
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Lupin the Third
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Post by Lupin the Third on Mar 16, 2016 22:24:51 GMT -5
The one on the 90's Magic teams airs on April 14th At first I thought there wasn't enough material to produce a feature-length documentary on the early-1990s Orlando Magic. It struck me as something worthy of a 22-minute 30 for 30 Shorts feature, but that was about it. But watching the commercial that aired Sunday night made me realize that not only could be the story be spread out over an hour, it could be REALLY good. I easily forget how much of a comet that Magic team was. They flashed across the sky, became an incredible sports and pop culture sensation, and they were gone with little fanfare. But there were so many moments. The team going from expansion also-ran to NBA Finals contender in six years; drafting Shaquille O'Neal; winning the NBA Draft Lottery in back-to-back years and having the stones to trade Chris Webber - the consensus first-overall pick - for Anfernee Hardaway following a possible apocryphal legendary workout; challenging the Jordan-less and Jordan-led Chicago Bulls; the team's two star attractions testing their mettle in Hollywood; the departure of Shaq. As a child growing up in the early 90s, I had more Orlando Magic gear than I did Boston Celtics gear because the Magic were just so cool. They were fun, anti-establishment, bright, colorful, and exciting. And did anyone really hate the Magic? I'm sure Bulls, Knicks, or Heat fans disliked them but for all their flash and instant popularity, nobody outright hated them. They really were one of those teams we'll never see again, the sports equivalent of a one-hit wonder. As an aside, I really hope the film dedicates at least a few minutes to the rumor that Bill Simmons touched upon in "The Book of Basketball" or a Grantland post, in which the Magic front office in 1993 or 1994 apparently tried to lure Larry Bird and Magic Johnson out of retirement to play with Shaq, Penny, Nick Anderson, Horace Grant, and the bunch. I don't think it's ever been confirmed that this actually happened but it'd be a fun little moment to see them discuss. As a Bulls fan in the 90's, I really didn't hate the Magic. Shaq was just too cool to hate. And my sister had an Anfernee "Penny" Hardaway jersey that I believe I still have. I really couldn't hate the Magic. There wasn't anything that they did to make me hate them. It's more of a shame that they just fell off the way they did. They were one of the best in the East for a number of years, then Poof. They're gone.
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Renslayer
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
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Post by Renslayer on Mar 17, 2016 13:56:16 GMT -5
The one on the 90's Magic teams airs on April 14th At first I thought there wasn't enough material to produce a feature-length documentary on the early-1990s Orlando Magic. It struck me as something worthy of a 22-minute 30 for 30 Shorts feature, but that was about it. But watching the commercial that aired Sunday night made me realize that not only could be the story be spread out over an hour, it could be REALLY good. I easily forget how much of a comet that Magic team was. They flashed across the sky, became an incredible sports and pop culture sensation, and they were gone with little fanfare. But there were so many moments. The team going from expansion also-ran to NBA Finals contender in six years; drafting Shaquille O'Neal; winning the NBA Draft Lottery in back-to-back years and having the stones to trade Chris Webber - the consensus first-overall pick - for Anfernee Hardaway following a possible apocryphal legendary workout; challenging the Jordan-less and Jordan-led Chicago Bulls; the team's two star attractions testing their mettle in Hollywood; the departure of Shaq. As a child growing up in the early 90s, I had more Orlando Magic gear than I did Boston Celtics gear because the Magic were just so cool. They were fun, anti-establishment, bright, colorful, and exciting. And did anyone really hate the Magic? I'm sure Bulls, Knicks, or Heat fans disliked them but for all their flash and instant popularity, nobody outright hated them. They really were one of those teams we'll never see again, the sports equivalent of a one-hit wonder. As an aside, I really hope the film dedicates at least a few minutes to the rumor that Bill Simmons touched upon in "The Book of Basketball" or a Grantland post, in which the Magic front office in 1993 or 1994 apparently tried to lure Larry Bird and Magic Johnson out of retirement to play with Shaq, Penny, Nick Anderson, Horace Grant, and the bunch. I don't think it's ever been confirmed that this actually happened but it'd be a fun little moment to see them discuss. I've always felt that if Horace Grant was healthy in the 96 Conference Finals, the Magic would've given the Bulls a good series. He killed them the year before
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Post by Duke Cameron on Mar 18, 2016 6:28:56 GMT -5
I loved the Magic as a kid/teenager.
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Renslayer
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Post by Renslayer on Mar 20, 2016 12:53:15 GMT -5
I thought the Orlando Magic 30 for 30 was airing tonight, but instead it's on April 14. smh
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andrew8798
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Post by andrew8798 on Mar 24, 2016 12:44:28 GMT -5
Looks like they doing one on the Jail Blazers
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ICBM
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Post by ICBM on Mar 24, 2016 19:29:37 GMT -5
Looks like they doing one on the Jail Blazers Sorry I don't get th joke
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andrew8798
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Post by andrew8798 on Mar 24, 2016 19:50:10 GMT -5
A lot of the Blazer players in the early 00's used to always get in trouble with the law so they got that nickname
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ICBM
King Koopa
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Post by ICBM on Mar 25, 2016 6:29:23 GMT -5
^thnx. I didn't care much for the rest of the league (spurs fan). I'd watch the games or highlights then switch the channel. Just didn't care about the rest of it. Thank you for clearing that up
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Renslayer
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every time i come around your city...
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Post by Renslayer on Mar 25, 2016 13:54:33 GMT -5
Looks like they doing one on the Jail Blazers There's a doc coming soon, but not 30 for 30. HBO will produce it
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andrew8798
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Post by andrew8798 on Mar 29, 2016 14:54:18 GMT -5
The OJ one to air in 5 parts
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2016 11:20:49 GMT -5
They announced on Twitter that a 30 for 30 on the Houston Cougars Phi Slama Jama teams will air in October.
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andrew8798
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Post by andrew8798 on Apr 1, 2016 23:13:27 GMT -5
For Flair's 30 for 30 he actually bladed for them
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andrew8798
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Post by andrew8798 on Apr 5, 2016 14:42:57 GMT -5
The Duke one now on Netflix
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