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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Dec 15, 2014 20:36:24 GMT -5
The thing I hate most about it is also the part that makes it absolutely fascinating, and that is the concept of watching what is essentially a corporate entity's brand research and marketing departments put together new products. To use soft drinks as an analogy, we're basically watching the guys at Pepsi's labs create new drinks and then taking them out on taste-test surveys. It's a new system we really hadn't seen before to this measure. Prior developmentals were independent and had their own things going; they didn't remind the viewers constantly that they were just killing time and getting more practice in before getting called up to the one that matters. Even when WCW Saturday Night turned into the Power Plant Power Hour, it was never promoted as the trial-and-error testing ground it was. It's a new system, one I'm admittedly not entirely comfortable with. This is where jobber roles and dark matches and house shows used to play such an important role in the development of the workers. Especially in the territory days, when a change of scenery could give any worker a fresh start. Now that NXT, Prototype-Phase WWE, is so heavily marketed now, I can see a lot more early burnout of gimmicks happening. By the time they get to WWE, we've already seen them doing the same thing for months or years. Shield aside (and they're a technicality), there has been very little rebranding in NXT-WWE transitions, new arrivals aren't arriving "fresh"; we've already been exposed to them for a while. It doesn't help that they are now their own competition, at least from an aesthetics level, and a lot of people don't seem to be happy with the way big favorites in NXT translated into WWE (Woods, Emma, Rose, etc., even Bray to a large degree). I imagine a possible best case scenario for that would be some of NXT's talent and ideas bleeding more into the main shows as time passes, whereas a worst case scenario would involve people in the company taking sides and letting that competition get out of hand, thus either wrecking NXT, Raw or both. Whichever you think is more likely is up to you, but IMO those are two believable outcomes.
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Post by Starshine on Dec 15, 2014 20:53:34 GMT -5
The good point about Eve Marie could also be applied to the criticisms about commentary. Riley and co are in nxt because they are rubbish, it is the wwes wish that a decade in nxt makes at least one of them passable by the time Cole retires. My one gripe would be the backstage segments. I sometimes suspend disbelief and imagine they are in a big area. That is ruined when they show a main eventer warming up in what is unmistakably the lobby of a college campus building. Going through a learning process and making mistakes is fine. It also makes sense to do it on the developmental level. But Riley's been commentating for a long time now and he's still awful. If there's no improvement in the talent over time, why should they be kept in that role?
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Post by bootytea on Dec 15, 2014 21:01:27 GMT -5
The predictable matches really killed it for me.
I remember when they went from a contest to a developmental show, they would try and convince me that Rick Viktor had a chance of winning despite not having an entrance or despite the fact that the commentators spent 80% of the match hyping his opponent.
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Post by americanoutlaw911 on Dec 16, 2014 10:25:39 GMT -5
wrestlers waiting over the year and never get seen on tv
main roster guys getting the wins over the nxt guys
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2014 11:42:07 GMT -5
How little forward momentum it has. The roster really doesn't at all change much, and every title reign seems to just go on for ages. It never feels like an episode of NXT is can't-miss because the show just spins its wheels so much between the live shows. Having a focus and not hotshotting things is good but it could stand to have more energy and unpredictability than it does.
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Post by N E O G E O B O Y S on Dec 16, 2014 12:04:08 GMT -5
The weekly shows will be as bad as RAW if those lasted 3 hours.
Also, I know that the transition to RAW isn't as good for the obvious booking problems that they had, but also, we had to consider that the NXT public is way different from the one of the main shows. In those shows you rarely see kids on the same ratio of RAW, and that makes a big difference, and like Madison said, you already get burned out with gimmicks way before they debut on the main roster.
Like some people said, people forget that is development and not an indie, and fans who try to act rebellious supporting NXT in a way to fight the machine feels really stupid since the E has found a way to make "smark money" without hindering the main show
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MiLB Fan
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,407
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Post by MiLB Fan on Dec 18, 2014 19:38:09 GMT -5
For me, it takes away the possibility that WWE will use house shows to test out a new gimmick or wrestler. It's cool to see current stars like Brock Lesnar or The Miz and think "hey, I remember seeing him in action BEFORE he made it big." It felt like something special that only those at the show could see. Now the next crop of superstars is known to more people thanks to NXT's weekly show.
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Dec 18, 2014 19:40:18 GMT -5
For me, it takes away the possibility that WWE will use house shows to test out a new gimmick or wrestler. It's cool to see current stars like Brock Lesnar or The Miz and think "hey, I remember seeing him in action BEFORE he made it big." It felt like something special that only those at the show could see. Now the next crop of superstars is known to more people thanks to NXT's weekly show. If you watched them in the indies, or even at NXT house shows before they made it to NXT TV (provided you live in Florida), you can still "see them in action before they made it big".
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Post by Kayfabe FAN don't want none on Dec 18, 2014 20:20:48 GMT -5
Naming stuff, whether wrestlers or shows.
Also, Mojo. f*** him.
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Rave
El Dandy
Perpetually Bored
Posts: 8,154
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Post by Rave on Dec 18, 2014 20:31:43 GMT -5
Riley and Rawley. Can both of them please just fall in a hole forever?
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Dub H
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Captain Pixel: the Game Master
I ❤ Aniki
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Post by Dub H on Dec 18, 2014 20:53:23 GMT -5
Clearly more developed wrestlers get much more action and lets say training than the less developed ones.
I mean,nothing wrong with giving Sami Zayin,Neville and etc the amazing opportunities and matches.
But less some people just get no chance to prove themselves.
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Post by Just call me D.j.m. on Dec 18, 2014 21:02:07 GMT -5
Alex Riley.
Also, I love the NXT crowd.
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Post by 01010010 01101001 01100011 on Dec 18, 2014 21:04:45 GMT -5
Clearly more developed wrestlers get much more action and lets say training than the less developed ones. I mean,nothing wrong with giving Sami Zayin,Neville and etc the amazing opportunities and matches. But less some people just get no chance to prove themselves. I don't agree. They seem to have a good little system set up for the new guys (and those looking for gimmicks): Performance center and house shows until your good enough in the ring Job work while they work on a gimmick TV "debut" once they have the gimmick. There is no reason to put people who aren't ready on the shows and destroy their confidence or worse. Plus TV is the last stop before the call up, it should be reserved for the top of class.
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Dec 18, 2014 21:13:11 GMT -5
Clearly more developed wrestlers get much more action and lets say training than the less developed ones. I mean,nothing wrong with giving Sami Zayin,Neville and etc the amazing opportunities and matches. But less some people just get no chance to prove themselves. I don't agree. They seem to have a good little system set up for the new guys (and those looking for gimmicks): Performance center and house shows until your good enough in the ring Job work while they work on a gimmick TV "debut" once they have the gimmick. There is no reason to put people who aren't ready on the shows and destroy their confidence or worse. Plus TV is the last stop before the call up, it should be reserved for the top of class. I think what he's trying to say is that most of the time is spent on guys who really don't need to be in developmental at all. Zayn, Neville, etc. Are rightfully at the top of the food chain but does anyone really think that they need to "learn how to work"?
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Post by 01010010 01101001 01100011 on Dec 18, 2014 21:20:01 GMT -5
I don't agree. They seem to have a good little system set up for the new guys (and those looking for gimmicks): Performance center and house shows until your good enough in the ring Job work while they work on a gimmick TV "debut" once they have the gimmick. There is no reason to put people who aren't ready on the shows and destroy their confidence or worse. Plus TV is the last stop before the call up, it should be reserved for the top of class. I think what he's trying to say is that most of the time is spent on guys who really don't need to be in developmental at all. Zayn, Neville, etc. Are rightfully at the top of the food chain but does anyone really think that they need to "learn how to work"? Yes. They need to know how to cut WWE promos, work the right camera, take direction from the refs, directors and producers and the little things like that. This isn't to forget that they are also learning to work with a larger ring with real rope instead of cable and finding a something that will work for them on the main roster.
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Post by thelonewolf527 on Dec 18, 2014 21:30:18 GMT -5
The thing I hate most about it is also the part that makes it absolutely fascinating, and that is the concept of watching what is essentially a corporate entity's brand research and marketing departments put together new products. To use soft drinks as an analogy, we're basically watching the guys at Pepsi's labs create new drinks and then taking them out on taste-test surveys. It's a new system we really hadn't seen before to this measure. Prior developmentals were independent and had their own things going; they didn't remind the viewers constantly that they were just killing time and getting more practice in before getting called up to the one that matters. Even when WCW Saturday Night turned into the Power Plant Power Hour, it was never promoted as the trial-and-error testing ground it was. It's a new system, one I'm admittedly not entirely comfortable with. This is where jobber roles and dark matches and house shows used to play such an important role in the development of the workers. Especially in the territory days, when a change of scenery could give any worker a fresh start. Now that NXT, Prototype-Phase WWE, is so heavily marketed now, I can see a lot more early burnout of gimmicks happening. By the time they get to WWE, we've already seen them doing the same thing for months or years. Shield aside (and they're a technicality), there has been very little rebranding in NXT-WWE transitions, new arrivals aren't arriving "fresh"; we've already been exposed to them for a while. It doesn't help that they are now their own competition, at least from an aesthetics level, and a lot of people don't seem to be happy with the way big favorites in NXT translated into WWE (Woods, Emma, Rose, etc., even Bray to a large degree). This is 100% what I've been saying for a while. The biggest problem I don't think is "burnout" but that there's a conflict of interest with these characters. Someone like Emma for example when she first showed up on NXT was just some weird dancing girl, but we didn't know why. Over time, you came to understand that she's just plain weird but that's the point. You got to see the formation of The Wyatt Family. Now when they get called up to Raw, you can't really start over from scratch because that already happened in a place that many people already see. On the other hand, many people also don't watch NXT and by not having the characters start from scratch, you're bringing them in fully developed to an audience who is confused because they didn't see any of the development. Unless people go the Del Rio route and have a completely different gimmick when called up, most will continue to fail. Tyler Breeze I have no doubt will not be over whatsoever on the main roster and will go the way of Fandango. Simply because he'll be old news by the time he finally gets on Raw and the other half of the audience just won't get him.
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Post by Magic knows Black Lives Matter on Dec 18, 2014 21:43:59 GMT -5
I think what he's trying to say is that most of the time is spent on guys who really don't need to be in developmental at all. Zayn, Neville, etc. Are rightfully at the top of the food chain but does anyone really think that they need to "learn how to work"? Yes. They need to know how to cut WWE promos, work the right camera, take direction from the refs, directors and producers and the little things like that. This isn't to forget that they are also learning to work with a larger ring with real rope instead of cable and finding a something that will work for them on the main roster. Exactly. Even Daniel Bryan spent a month or two in development because he wanted to shake off ring rust and get used to working WWE style matches. If you are gonna be a full time wrestler, no one should be above development. Let's not pretend like just because they aren't being featured on TV that a ton of the people in development are getting ignored and aren't getting trained properly. That's impossible to say because we aren't following the day-to-day operations down there.
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Post by Ishmeal Loves Kaseyhausen on Dec 18, 2014 21:47:01 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2014 22:10:49 GMT -5
Alex Riley - Not bad at the pre-game stuff but horrid on commentary. Mojo Rawley - Mainly the always hyped stuff. He has potential but the always hyped stuff sucks. Bull Dempsy - Like with Rawley, there is potential, the whole gimmick sucks. They bill him as 300+lbs which is a huge part of his gimmick and he couldn't be 225. Certain crowd chants - I HATE the Peter Griffen knee chant. It really takes away from moments and drags the show down. Also, the snarky chants most recently "Marking out" for Finn's entrance. Too "Impact Zone" for my liking. Cannot agree more on the knee thing. It is annoying and sounds like a gangbang. I hope that does not stick.
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Reflecto
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The Sorceress' Knight
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Post by Reflecto on Dec 18, 2014 22:48:43 GMT -5
This is 100% what I've been saying for a while. The biggest problem I don't think is "burnout" but that there's a conflict of interest with these characters. Someone like Emma for example when she first showed up on NXT was just some weird dancing girl, but we didn't know why. Over time, you came to understand that she's just plain weird but that's the point. You got to see the formation of The Wyatt Family. Now when they get called up to Raw, you can't really start over from scratch because that already happened in a place that many people already see. On the other hand, many people also don't watch NXT and by not having the characters start from scratch, you're bringing them in fully developed to an audience who is confused because they didn't see any of the development. Unless people go the Del Rio route and have a completely different gimmick when called up, most will continue to fail. Tyler Breeze I have no doubt will not be over whatsoever on the main roster and will go the way of Fandango. Simply because he'll be old news by the time he finally gets on Raw and the other half of the audience just won't get him. Being fair, the bigger problem is less the "gimmicked" nature and more the fact that the NXT continuity gestates things that make it impossible to translate. The Wyatt Family and Rusev are gimmicks that are easy to translate, so they ended up just fine on the main roster- and people like Adam Rose (who had only had one NXT taping of gestation time before his debut vignettes started- so no one could know if it would have taken in NXT as a whole or not) or Xavier Woods (who had very little face time on NXT before his debut) had been natural failures for it. As far as the BIG NXT stars who came up in full, you ended up with three big ones- Bo Dallas, Emma, and Paige. In each case, the things that made them so effective in NXT could not really translate to a non-NXT audience because the crowd was so important to that development (Bo Dallas was known as "he's a babyface, but the NXT crowd gave him X-Pac Heat and turned him heel- and Paige and Emma were always "yeah, she's a heel, but the crowd made her a babyface because they just love her so much".) Both of those things can NEVER translate to a different audience, no matter how hot or how hated they were, simply because any roster is a fresh start.
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