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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2015 2:36:16 GMT -5
Honestly I hope to never see another year long run again. I think in the age of having like eight hours of WWE TV a week keeping something to a status quo for an entire year is just wasting everyone's time.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2015 2:44:55 GMT -5
It really is and honestly the only reason Punk was a champion for that long is because all the other major stars were tied up with other storylines. He wasn't even the focus. We also look at the fact that Punk turned heel midway to keep his reign fresh so it's special circumstances.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2015 2:47:56 GMT -5
It really is and honestly the only reason Punk was a champion for that long is because all the other major stars were tied up with other storylines. He wasn't even the focus. We also look at the fact that Punk turned heel midway to keep his reign fresh so it's special circumstances. It probably would have been a 9 or so month reign if they weren't going to do Punk/Rock at the Rumble.
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Post by cabbageboy on Jan 2, 2015 9:32:38 GMT -5
WWE can't be that stupid though, can they? They can't seriously think that bringing Bryan back and having him in the Rumble won't mean that fans will crap on anyone else who wins? Ziggler is really the only other guy right now that wouldn't get trashed.
This has the potential to be a far bigger train wreck than last year. Batista getting trashed by fans in the end meant very little. He was in and out of the company in 6 months. Roman Reigns is a younger guy that is supposed to be the Future of the Company and all that. In a way WWE has already played this wrong. Why not just hold off Reigns' return until the Rumble, ensuring him a big pop for winning? Hold off Bryan until Feb. and then put him in whatever you want.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2015 11:22:07 GMT -5
I brought this up in another thread, but WWE's in a pretty tricky situation right now, and they have no one but themselves to blame. They desperately need new lifeblood in the main event, and a Rumble win and subsequent victory over Lesnar would absolutely make Reigns. A Bryan/Lesnar match would undoubtedly be good, but Bryan wouldn't benefit from the win nearly as much, since he already had his star-making moment at last year's Mania. However, Bryan is absolutely the most over guy in the company, and Reigns winning the Rumble over him definitely risks a backlash from the crowd. If WWE is insistent on Reigns winning, I don't know why they didn't just go with the obvious solution of holding off on Bryan's return until after the Rumble.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Jan 2, 2015 11:23:18 GMT -5
I brought this up in another thread, but WWE's in a pretty tricky situation right now, and they have no one but themselves to blame. They desperately need new lifeblood in the main event, and a Rumble win and subsequent victory over Lesnar would absolutely make Reigns. A Bryan/Lesnar match would undoubtedly be good, but Bryan wouldn't benefit from the win nearly as much, since he already had his star-making moment at last year's Mania. However, Bryan is absolutely the most over guy in the company, and Reigns winning the Rumble over him definitely risks a backlash from the crowd. If WWE is insistent on Reigns winning, I don't know why they didn't just go with the obvious solution of holding off on Bryan's return until after the Rumble. the problem is Reigns isn't ready to be the guy and pushing him out before he's ready WILL ruin him.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2015 11:45:51 GMT -5
the problem is Reigns isn't ready to be the guy and pushing him out before he's ready WILL ruin him. I...don't really agree with the latter part. Batista wasn't ready when he got his major push either, and he ended up doing fine for the most part. Shitty booking is much more likely to sink Reigns' run than a lack of workrate, as WWE has never and will never be a workrate-oriented company.
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Allie Kitsune
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Jan 2, 2015 11:46:52 GMT -5
But once Bryan beats Lesnar, what odds will he have to overcome? He overcomes a possible career ending injury to dethrone the most unstoppable guy in the WWE in years, it's hard to top those odds. Not to mention as you said, he's already beaten Triple H, Orton, Batista, Big Show, Cena, etc. clean as a whistle. Who else does he need to beat before he has no real other odds to overcome? That's an interesting point. He HAS beaten the majority of the top names already. His in-ring credibility shouldn't be in question. My theory is that it's just because he doesn't get the lip service on commentary that guys like Cena and Reigns get. That's what a LOT of things boil down to, in my opinion. Like, Ambrose and Rollins are in PPV and TV main events looking great (wonky finishes aside, in Ambrose's case), but apparently they're not being pushed as hard as Reigns, the guy who was going back and forth with Fandango a few weeks ago. Some of it is not getting the ass-kissing from WWE brass, but it's also that he (and this is actually to WWE's credit, because let's face it, Bryan _would_ start losing his appeal if it WAS to happen) is never portrayed in any way as dominant or dismissive. Bryan's biggest asset, when it comes to being someone people can get behind, is that everybody knows that he is NOT the sort of person that Vince, Dunn, or hell, even Hunter would consider a social kindred spirit. Fans, especially ones on the nerd/geek side of the spectrum can identify with him because he's not from Vince and Hunter's macho "Bull of the Woods, Lord of the Schoolyard" world. He tried to be a vegan (until it became too impractical for his lifestyle on the road and his body developed allergies that wouldn't allow it anymore), he presents himself as something of a hippie, something of a nerd, something of being against Vince's love of Big Business and the Ol' Mighty Dollar. With Punk and his "I am the revolution and I'll burn everyone who gets in my way!" message gone from the company, Bryan is basically the last remaining avatar of the crowd being able to tell Vince : "This isn't your company! This is ours and you're going to do what WE want, and you're going to accept OUR mindset from now on!" It's, and I don't mean this in an offensive way, Revenge of the Nerds, with Bryan playing the part of Lewis Skolnick, Vince as Coach Harris, and Cena, Roman, and any other "chosen one" as Ogre.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Jan 2, 2015 11:48:54 GMT -5
I didn't mention his work-rate.
I meant overall he is not ready.
His promo work when doing anything other than quick bits tends to fall apart and promo work as the top guy is probably the most important thing in the WWE.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2015 11:57:00 GMT -5
I didn't mention his work-rate. I meant overall he is not ready. His promo work when doing anything other than quick bits tends to fall apart and promo work as the top guy is probably the most important thing in the WWE. Well, "overall" implicitly includes his ring-work. Reigns isn't the best promo dude and isn't a ring general, but in a competently-booked company he wouldn't need to be. Just let the dude say a sentence or two and job out guys with power moves. Worked for Goldberg, worked for Batista, worked for Ryback; no reason it couldn't work with Reigns. Just because WWE supposedly wants him to be the next Cena doesn't mean they need to force him into the Cena mold of working long, heel-dominated matches and cutting long, overly-scripted promos. That's what I meant by WWE's shitty booking.
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Post by mizerable on Jan 2, 2015 12:46:03 GMT -5
There is no need to pass CM Punks record because it is a worthless record. I will be surprised if Punk even cares about it. I completely disagree that it is a worthless record. It is a far more impressive record than winning a title 10 to 20 times since there's no basis of time for said record. It's damn near impossible for a wrestler to be champion long term in this age out of fear that they'll not keep people engaged, and while Punk did get a bit stale while champ, he still did more in 14 months in terms of interest than most people do in 4. That said, Bryan doesn't need to be a long term champion. He definitely deserves a longer reign, possibly 100 days or so, but he's also a guy who does a great job of chasing. In fact, I wouldn't even have him win at Mania. Have him face Lesnar, then after about 5 minutes of keeping up, Rollins decides to cash in, thus making the match a triple threat. This also makes it more reasonable in the sense of Lesnar losing, have Bryan hit his knee on Lesnar, Rollins in turn throws Bryan out of the ring, hits the curb stomp on Lesnar and pins him. Let the Bryan/Rollins feud go onward. And let's say that earlier in the night, Rollins lost a match to Orton, so Orton claims he's the number one contender, but Lesnar also wants a rematch (if they can keep him until Extreme Rules), have a number one contender match between Orton and Lesnar with Orton pulling out all stops to finally end Lesnar. Bryan can eventually win the title at Money in the Bank or something.
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Post by wcc2 on Jan 2, 2015 12:55:15 GMT -5
I didn't mention his work-rate. I meant overall he is not ready. His promo work when doing anything other than quick bits tends to fall apart and promo work as the top guy is probably the most important thing in the WWE. Well, "overall" implicitly includes his ring-work. Reigns isn't the best promo dude and isn't a ring general, but in a competently-booked company he wouldn't need to be. Just let the dude say a sentence or two and job out guys with power moves. Worked for Goldberg, worked for Batista, worked for Ryback; no reason it couldn't work with Reigns. Just because WWE supposedly wants him to be the next Cena doesn't mean they need to force him into the Cena mold of working long, heel-dominated matches and cutting long, overly-scripted promos. That's what I meant by WWE's shitty booking. That's exactly how they do book him. If he's going to be a main eventer he has to work longer matches, because he will be facing other main eventers, and they can't just lose to Reigns in 5 minutes if they are going to have credibility facing anyone else on the roster.
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Post by BigWill on Jan 2, 2015 13:10:26 GMT -5
I didn't mention his work-rate. I meant overall he is not ready. His promo work when doing anything other than quick bits tends to fall apart and promo work as the top guy is probably the most important thing in the WWE. Well, "overall" implicitly includes his ring-work. Reigns isn't the best promo dude and isn't a ring general, but in a competently-booked company he wouldn't need to be. Just let the dude say a sentence or two and job out guys with power moves. Worked for Goldberg, worked for Batista, worked for Ryback; no reason it couldn't work with Reigns. Just because WWE supposedly wants him to be the next Cena doesn't mean they need to force him into the Cena mold of working long, heel-dominated matches and cutting long, overly-scripted promos. That's what I meant by WWE's shitty booking. No one in the WWE gets booked like Goldberg did in the main event, and no one wants to see a under 5 minute squash as a main event either. The WWE may have shitty booking at times, but they at least know better than to do that. And even guys like Batista had to work longer matches and improve their mic skills once they got to the main event, which are both things Reigns hasn't done yet. No reason why a guy needs to be rushed to the top when he isn't even 30 yet, and hasn't even been a singles wrestler for a year. If a superstar needs such a huge push so early in his career just to stay relevant, that likely means they aren't worthy of the push in the first place.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2015 15:07:11 GMT -5
That's exactly how they do book him. If he's going to be a main eventer he has to work longer matches, because he will be facing other main eventers, and they can't just lose to Reigns in 5 minutes if they are going to have credibility facing anyone else on the roster. No one in the WWE gets booked like Goldberg did in the main event, and no one wants to see a under 5 minute squash as a main event either. The WWE may have shitty booking at times, but they at least know better than to do that. And even guys like Batista had to work longer matches and improve their mic skills once they got to the main event, which are both things Reigns hasn't done yet. No reason why a guy needs to be rushed to the top when he isn't even 30 yet, and hasn't even been a singles wrestler for a year. If a superstar needs such a huge push so early in his career just to stay relevant, that likely means they aren't worthy of the push in the first place. Good points, but there's a happy medium between "5 minute squash" and "25 minute main event, half of which are restholds." Reigns' PPV matches should be booked like Goldberg's circa 2003: 10-15 minute affairs that are largely built around his signature spots and his opponents avoiding them. Those matches weren't classics but they certainly weren't unwatchable. You book to a wrestler's strengths, you don't try to force them to fit a particular style. Reigns shouldn't be selling for Fandango on random Smackdown episodes, and he certainly shouldn't be involved in an awful, parity-booked feud with Big Show.
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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Jan 2, 2015 15:11:32 GMT -5
the problem is Reigns isn't ready to be the guy and pushing him out before he's ready WILL ruin him. No, it won't. They have a contingency plan for exactly this circumstance: Turn him corporate heel. I'm of the mind that this has been the plan all along, but even if it hasn't, they know perfectly well that this is a plan B that's always gangbusters.
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wcc2
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Post by wcc2 on Jan 2, 2015 16:40:02 GMT -5
That's exactly how they do book him. If he's going to be a main eventer he has to work longer matches, because he will be facing other main eventers, and they can't just lose to Reigns in 5 minutes if they are going to have credibility facing anyone else on the roster. No one in the WWE gets booked like Goldberg did in the main event, and no one wants to see a under 5 minute squash as a main event either. The WWE may have shitty booking at times, but they at least know better than to do that. And even guys like Batista had to work longer matches and improve their mic skills once they got to the main event, which are both things Reigns hasn't done yet. No reason why a guy needs to be rushed to the top when he isn't even 30 yet, and hasn't even been a singles wrestler for a year. If a superstar needs such a huge push so early in his career just to stay relevant, that likely means they aren't worthy of the push in the first place. Good points, but there's a happy medium between "5 minute squash" and "25 minute main event, half of which are restholds." Reigns' PPV matches should be booked like Goldberg's circa 2003: 10-15 minute affairs that are largely built around his signature spots and his opponents avoiding them. Those matches weren't classics but they certainly weren't unwatchable. You book to a wrestler's strengths, you don't try to force them to fit a particular style. Reigns shouldn't be selling for Fandango on random Smackdown episodes, and he certainly shouldn't be involved in an awful, parity-booked feud with Big Show. Who else should be be feuding with if not Big Show, bearing in mind the time of year and the fact it's likely just a placeholder until his main feud can begin on the road to Wrestlemania?
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Post by Mid-Carder on Jan 2, 2015 16:44:41 GMT -5
Punk was able to have a year-long title reign because they had "two world titles" and Cena was still the top guy anyway. With one world title again, as there should be, I doubt we'll ever see a reign that long again
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2015 17:28:05 GMT -5
the problem is Reigns isn't ready to be the guy and pushing him out before he's ready WILL ruin him. I...don't really agree with the latter part. Batista wasn't ready when he got his major push either, and he ended up doing fine for the most part. Shitty booking is much more likely to sink Reigns' run than a lack of workrate, as WWE has never and will never be a workrate-oriented company. That was pre-Cena megapush though. Fans are pretty hip to "you're not ready for this and WWE is trying to make me think you are" now. There's also been so many people the fans got behind that WWE killed off, which adds to the fans' hostility and cynicism in the event that WWE decides to "make a star". Sheamus knows all about this. Also, WWE is absolutely workrate oriented right now. You can't only be good in the ring and totally suck at everything else, but it's gotten to the point where you're counted on to have a great match if you want to main event. This shift started when CM Punk won the WWE title and raised the bar in terms of match quality at the main event level.
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Jan 2, 2015 17:59:07 GMT -5
the problem is Reigns isn't ready to be the guy and pushing him out before he's ready WILL ruin him. I...don't really agree with the latter part. Batista wasn't ready when he got his major push either, and he ended up doing fine for the most part. Shitty booking is much more likely to sink Reigns' run than a lack of workrate, as WWE has never and will never be a workrate-oriented company. Batista's "major push" wasn't that much of a major push. They ended up sending him to SmackDown and ultimately chose Cena to be the guy. There is no B-Show where It can be "Roman Reigns and everyone else" anymore. Also Batista was a big hoss who wasn't expected to "wrestle" anyone. WWE just likes to pretend Reigns is a hoss. He should be held to a higher standard. WWE has never been a workrate oriented company; but those types of guys are the ones who are becoming rising stars. And even the guys who aren't known for workrate are stepping up and improving their in-ring game while Reigns only does his big spots
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Post by cabbageboy on Jan 2, 2015 18:21:56 GMT -5
The problem with Reigns turning is that Rollins is already the corporate heel and is better at the role than Reigns would be. I thought initially Reigns might have made for a better corporate heel, but Rollins has excelled in a role that some did not find him well suited.
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