|
Post by Rolent Tex on Jan 7, 2015 14:29:15 GMT -5
This is going to continue happening if countries continue allowing their citizens to go fight in wars like the Syrian Civil War. It's like no one gives a shit to learn the lesson of arming and training anti-Soviet freedom fighters. What, you think just because they're traibed by our countries and supplied by us that they're gonna be in love with us when it's all said and done?
Here's an idea...people that obviously have an anti-West bent that travel to other countries and there's no question why they're there...revoke their passports and tell them to peace the hell out. You provide financial support to terrorists, are tried and found guilty? Instant death penalty. You're providing financial support in other countries, no matter if you're a damn shop keeper or a Saudi prince, you're banned from ever traveling here and all of your assets in the country are seized.
|
|
|
Post by Hit Girl on Jan 7, 2015 15:04:01 GMT -5
The year is only seven days old and we've already had our first senseless massacre.
|
|
|
Post by Andrew is Good on Jan 7, 2015 15:05:39 GMT -5
For guys like these murderers, it's easier to kill a critic than to engage them in intelligent discourse. Cowards resort to violence when they are incapable of defending their beliefs and opinions through civilised debate. That's what they really strike at. They fear being exposed as frauds, as they would be if they had to articulate their thoughts, so they prefer to just silence any critical view with bullets and brute force. I get what you're saying, and I agree to a point, but there are people in this world (not these guys, specifically, but other people) who are living their lives, quietly believing what they believe, aren't forcing their beliefs on others, and just want to be left alone. However, these "intellectuals" (see also, bullies) attack them and their beliefs out of some strange superiority complex or pretty much no reason. The people being attacked might just not be good at "arguing" or don't want to start a fight or just want to be left alone. And as they are pushed and pushed and pushed and pushed by "challenges" I think they start to get angry and they push back using what they think will end the rather one sided debate quickly and decisively (such as, punching loud mouth in the jaw and knocking them out). No, I'm not saying that's right, I'm not saying that's good...but no one is standing up for quiet "don't want to argue" guy, and the guy pushing the whole thing isn't shutting up or leaving the person alone. Against someone who doesn't want to argue or push their beliefs on others, when does the challenging guy just shut up and let the dude be? It's hard to explain this without breaking the rules and getting into huge trouble. I know it's not the point you're trying to make, but it's a thought that's floating in my head. There are people in this world who may challenge people's beliefs, but why not challenge beliefs, of anything. If I'm wrong, I want to know. It's attempting to be intellectually honest. And sometimes they're not targeting individual people, but beliefs in general. The reason I'm saying holy crap no is the quote "they start to get angry and push back. Some people don't want to debate, that's fine. Going up to someone in public and debating them instantly without being asked it pretty rude and uncalled for, but that doesn't take away from the fact people can express their beliefs in general. The people who did this act, I'm almost certain they weren't sitting on the bus minding their own business. I'm not one of those free speech warriors who are like, my free speech trumps all. Sometimes free speech gets in the way of someone else's rights. But getting offended is different then getting attacked or harassed. If people are engaging though in the discussion, and they get challenged, and then resort to violence themselves, that's all on the perpetrators of violence, not the "loud mouth". And sometimes, these intellectuals aren't bullies and might even be standing up to bullies at times. And I know what territory this could go into, but I'm talking about everything. If you have a false belief, and maybe you keep to yourself, I can see, ok, whatever, just leave them be. But if you don't keep to yourself, there are people who are going to call you out on it. Conspiracy theorists, that's not against the rules there. I despise them, because that's the tactics they choose where they can say what they will, and they'll get extra defensive if they're called out on it. If a conspiracy theorist is sitting on the bus minding his or her own business, I'm not going to debate them, but if they go public with it, then someone has every right to challenge them, especially if they put it out in the ether of discussion.
|
|
|
Post by SsnakeBite, the No1 Frenchman on Jan 7, 2015 15:10:31 GMT -5
The latest reports mention 11 wounded now, and 4 are critical. The hospital where they're being treated said their injuries are akin to war wounds, so of course you don't see this kind of injuries in civilian hospitals and the surgeons aren't used to treating them.
I'm not a praying man but... I can't think of anything to say other than pray for the safety of these people.
|
|
|
Post by Andrew is Good on Jan 7, 2015 15:11:21 GMT -5
What's also sick is this is one of two terrorist attacks today. There was one in the States against the NAACP. Thankfully no one was hurt there, but geez what a bad day.
|
|
|
Post by SsnakeBite, the No1 Frenchman on Jan 7, 2015 15:14:08 GMT -5
What's also sick is this is one of two terrorist attacks today. There was one in the States against the NAACP. Thankfully no one was hurt there, but geez what a bad day. For crying out loud... Come back, 2014. We didn't mean it!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2015 15:16:36 GMT -5
What's also sick is this is one of two terrorist attacks today. There was one in the States against the NAACP. Thankfully no one was hurt there, but geez what a bad day. For crying out loud... Come back, 2014. We didn't mean it! Nope, this is fully the case of we don't know what we have
|
|
|
Post by Prince Petty on Jan 7, 2015 15:20:21 GMT -5
For guys like these murderers, it's easier to kill a critic than to engage them in intelligent discourse. Cowards resort to violence when they are incapable of defending their beliefs and opinions through civilised debate. That's what they really strike at. They fear being exposed as frauds, as they would be if they had to articulate their thoughts, so they prefer to just silence any critical view with bullets and brute force. I get what you're saying, and I agree to a point, but there are people in this world (not these guys, specifically, but other people) who are living their lives, quietly believing what they believe, aren't forcing their beliefs on others, and just want to be left alone. However, these "intellectuals" (see also, bullies) attack them and their beliefs out of some strange superiority complex or pretty much no reason. The people being attacked might just not be good at "arguing" or don't want to start a fight or just want to be left alone. And as they are pushed and pushed and pushed and pushed by "challenges" I think they start to get angry and they push back using what they think will end the rather one sided debate quickly and decisively (such as, punching loud mouth in the jaw and knocking them out). No, I'm not saying that's right, I'm not saying that's good...but no one is standing up for quiet "don't want to argue" guy, and the guy pushing the whole thing isn't shutting up or leaving the person alone. Against someone who doesn't want to argue or push their beliefs on others, when does the challenging guy just shut up and let the dude be? It's hard to explain this without breaking the rules and getting into huge trouble. I know it's not the point you're trying to make, but it's a thought that's floating in my head. The answer to that always remains the same, for me. Those people don't have to read, watch or pay any attention to creative output that is designed to offend or mock them for their beliefs. That's the great thing about freedom of expression: You're free to ignore anyone you want. As I understand it, Charlie Hebdo is not posted through the doors of the devout, it's not forced on people in the street. It's a satirical newspaper you can buy, or not buy. You want to counter their arguments, formulate your own and air it in a reasonable way. The other side of the coin is what these sub-human pieces of filth have done, which is to attempt to force their own moral code on people who want no part of their belief system. They know they'll never convince anyone who isn't a gullible, vulnerable fool, to follow their way of thinking, so they threaten instead. They intimidate, and when that doesn't work, they kill. They're not capable of intelligent discourse or debate, to counter points raised by others with their own creativity, so they resort to violence. They are primitives, unworthy of being considered rational members of the human race. For the millions of followers of Islam who are bright, articulate, who contribute to the societies they live in, and for those who are just decent people and live those quiet lives you mention, these extremists should be a source of shame and disgust. But then, extremists of any creed should be a source of shame and disgust to rationally minded people. To be rooted out, excluded and marginalised, because they would rather live in some high tech version of the Middle Ages than join the rest of us in the 21st century.
|
|
|
Post by SsnakeBite, the No1 Frenchman on Jan 7, 2015 15:33:43 GMT -5
Here's an idea...people that obviously have an anti-West bent that travel to other countries and there's no question why they're there...revoke their passports and tell them to peace the hell out. You provide financial support to terrorists, are tried and found guilty? Instant death penalty. You're providing financial support in other countries, no matter if you're a damn shop keeper or a Saudi prince, you're banned from ever travelling here and all of your assets in the country are seized. Stuff like this would only compound the problem by creating even more of a "Us vs Them" atmosphere, which exactly what terrorists strive for. They tell pissed off and misguided kids "see? These assholes are refusing you! They HATE you, so go show them who's boss!". If you close the door on them, you take away any chance for them to come back from their mistakes and change their ways and yes, that does happen, more often than you'd think. When you remove this possibility, you are actively giving them no choice but to stick with the terrorists so paradoxically, it only makes them stronger. hell, at the very least, if you let them come back you can arrest them and judge them, and you even have a chance to get them to tell you more about what terrorists groups are planning, instead of just letting them kill and die for their cause and making them martyrs, which only motivates more people to join them.
|
|
Goldenbane
Hank Scorpio
THE G.D. Goldenbane
Posts: 7,331
|
Post by Goldenbane on Jan 7, 2015 16:37:22 GMT -5
Great responses to my post guys! I honestly really do appreciate it! Makes me think a little better about stuff that's troubled me recently. I can't thank you all enough.
|
|
|
Post by "Gentleman" AJ Powell on Jan 7, 2015 17:31:52 GMT -5
f***ing disgusting. Blaming this on religious beliefs and how they've been offended is just cowardly, through and through. It's an excuse for these sick f***s to go out and kill defenceless people and try and justify it in their sick minds. Sure, those folks might have made some jokes in poor taste in their magazine, but it's f***ing satire you nit-wits. If you can't laugh at yourselves, who can you laugh at? Oh right, you just kill other folks instead. Ugh.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2015 19:08:28 GMT -5
|
|
chazraps
Wade Wilson
Better have my money when I come-a collect!
Posts: 27,955
|
Post by chazraps on Jan 7, 2015 19:25:35 GMT -5
Sad, horrific, but not totally unexpected given the people who did it. I am honestly surprised it doesn't happen more to be honest. There is a solution to this, but God forbid you suggest it here in the West. Didn't you demand the WWE not portray Tea-Partiers Zeb and Jack Swagger on their programming and ensure everyone it was going away because you didn't like it?
|
|
The Unconquered Sun
King Koopa
He has no pants! What a heathen!
Lord of Storms and Kittens!
Posts: 11,548
|
Post by The Unconquered Sun on Jan 7, 2015 19:48:37 GMT -5
Much love and respect to the French people today
|
|
|
Post by YAKMAN is ICHIBAN on Jan 7, 2015 20:50:17 GMT -5
One cartoonists response
|
|
ICBM
King Koopa
Didn't know we did status updates here now
Posts: 12,288
|
Post by ICBM on Jan 7, 2015 21:15:53 GMT -5
This one is tough man. I have literally defended freedom of speech among other liberties we sometimes take for granted. I have been up against a$$hat shithead terrorists and they don't often stick around to trade mags once we show up. They'd rather attack an easy mark like an undefended office like today, a school, a bus stop, a mall or a club. The tough part is the writers were warned by would be attackers for a long time. They took no precaution against it. When we receive a threat we make ourselves a hard target. They were brave to stand their ground and keep writing. I just wish they'd have buttoned up the front door. Making circulation control and single point of entry policy makes you a harder target and terrorist might look elsewhere for an easier mark. I hope two things come out of this: more cartoonists standing up and not stopping and those that do protect themselves. That does not have to mean armed guards. Do things to make your place safe
|
|
mizerable
Fry's dog Seymour
You're the lowest on the totem pole here, Alva. The lowest.
Posts: 23,475
|
Post by mizerable on Jan 7, 2015 21:36:29 GMT -5
In terms of what we can do to prevent this in the future, the first thing is to not give into their hope to make us live in fear. These bastards can only do so much, and anytime this happens, they're only helping lead to their visionary demise.
f*** these assholes. I can only hope this leads to more people standing up against their pathetic intolerance.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2015 22:00:32 GMT -5
Now NBC is backing off the previous report I posted and is saying that the 18 year old turned himself in but the fate of the other two are unknown.
|
|
|
Post by tigermaskxxxvii on Jan 7, 2015 22:41:51 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by Rolent Tex on Jan 8, 2015 0:19:10 GMT -5
This one is tough man. I have literally defended freedom of speech among other liberties we sometimes take for granted. I have been up against a$$hat shithead terrorists and they don't often stick around to trade mags once we show up. They'd rather attack an easy mark like an undefended office like today, a school, a bus stop, a mall or a club. The tough part is the writers were warned by would be attackers for a long time. They took no precaution against it. When we receive a threat we make ourselves a hard target. They were brave to stand their ground and keep writing. I just wish they'd have buttoned up the front door. Making circulation control and single point of entry policy makes you a harder target and terrorist might look elsewhere for an easier mark. I hope two things come out of this: more cartoonists standing up and not stopping and those that do protect themselves. That does not have to mean armed guards. Do things to make your place safe There was report earlier today they ambushed a mother and her young child (she worked there and picked up her kid from daycare, the report read) and they forced her to use her code to open the door Threatening to murder a mother and small child in order to get access to others to murder. f*** this slime.
|
|