|
Post by Kevin Hamilton on Feb 10, 2015 7:31:41 GMT -5
It's not really about not supporting the franchise, it's just the fact that Spider-man IS Peter Parker. Everything else is iterations of that.
For me, personally, there have to be four key ingredients for Spider-man:
He's named Peter Parker He has the classic suit He's a nerd who's able to let loose while in the suit Uncle Ben/GreatPowerResponsibility/Tragic Death
You have to have those four things, or it's just a reflection of Peter, and not actually the character. From there, you could make Peter anything: Black, White, Hispanic, Asian, whatever. But he's still gonna be Peter. Miles,Miguel,alternate universe Gwen, Mayday, Ben Reilly.. ALL of those are fun characters, but they only exist as a response to Peter, not full fledged characters on their own.
They're sorta like Wild Cherry Pepsi or the like. People love that soda, hell I'll have a swig now and then, but without your original Pepsi they don't even exist.
Spider-man is Peter Parker.
|
|
|
Post by sternrogers01 on Feb 10, 2015 8:00:09 GMT -5
I definitely don't dispute that everything has to bounce off of Peter Parker. I just see him in a routinely finite way, reflective of the strange mood of the times I've been raised on him, he's always had an "ending" at some point, and then they go the legacy route for a bit, then bring him back again like a revolving door. Batman and The Flash come the closest to matching that...and probably Green Lantern given the very nature of the concept
I disagree though about the other characters not being fully fledged on their own. Mayday does things differently from Peter for one thing. She had never experianced tragedy on any real level before (and no, I don't count what happens in Spider-Verse since DeFalco subtlety retconned those events as happening to an alternative double) and she often makes more friends with her enemies than her father ever managed. Recently, in the Spider-Verse event, they even revealed Ben was slightly more competent than Peter in the BND/Big Time era, to the point that the differences were enough to prevent the whole Superior storyline from not happening at all under his watch.
|
|
Crimson
Hank Scorpio
Thank you DWade
Posts: 6,511
|
Post by Crimson on Feb 10, 2015 8:14:57 GMT -5
Jaden Smith can't act. Keep him FAR away from, well any movie really. Seriously, I hate that it's become a trend whenever people fancast for a young black character people automatically go for Jaden Smith.
|
|
Crimson
Hank Scorpio
Thank you DWade
Posts: 6,511
|
Post by Crimson on Feb 10, 2015 8:16:02 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by sternrogers01 on Feb 10, 2015 8:18:39 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by Bob Schlapowitz on Feb 10, 2015 8:29:13 GMT -5
Well, shit. I really liked Andrew Garfield as Spider-Man. And to throw my 2 pennies in, making a Spider-Man film without Peter Parker as Spider-Man? What's the next dumb idea? Electric 90's Superman in a movie? Bat-Azreal in a movie?
|
|
|
Post by sternrogers01 on Feb 10, 2015 8:36:50 GMT -5
Yes. Please. Pretty please. Remember all those Batman Beyond live-action movie treatments in the 2000s too?
|
|
|
Post by Joker on Feb 10, 2015 8:52:43 GMT -5
I'd love a Spider-man movie that doesn't actually feature Peter Parker or Mile Morales, it's just Spider-man because that would be awesome!
Also Mysterio please.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2015 8:58:52 GMT -5
Meanwhile, the Fantastic Four remain doomed to concept butchery and endless reboots.
X-Men... should remain separate, however.
|
|
Crimson
Hank Scorpio
Thank you DWade
Posts: 6,511
|
Post by Crimson on Feb 10, 2015 9:03:28 GMT -5
X-Men... should remain separate, however. I agree. In my honest opinion, the whole "Mutants are allegory to real-world racism/prejudice" completely falls apart when you have the general public beloving just about every other Superhero.
|
|
|
Post by Kevin Hamilton on Feb 10, 2015 9:25:41 GMT -5
Agreed on X-men. Allegory only works if they're separate.
|
|
JDviant
Unicron
XB1 username: lil giant robot
Posts: 3,103
|
Post by JDviant on Feb 10, 2015 9:37:47 GMT -5
Do people think that if Miles gets popular and "iconic" then Marvel will stop printing stories about Parker? I firmly believe its a possibility. Just like they had Nick Fury get replaced by his before unknown black son Marcus, who lost an eye and what do you know his name ALSO was really Nick. Again, I'm pretty neutral overall since I don't really care for the movie universe to begin with, but i think both sides have fair reason to be worried or at least anxious. Here's the big difference, their is nothing intrinsically White about Peter, being white is not a core part of his being at all. The Black Panther comparison is so f***ing weak & foolish it just makes you look bad. Peter's origin is tied into being white though, largely based on Untold Tales of Spider-Man -1 where its revealed Parker's parents actually died because they were SHIELD agents and were infiltrating the Red Skulls organization. However since movies ignore comics, Spider-Man cast in the modern era can b of any colour, just as Black Panther could. The title of Black Panther is a largely inherited one, passed from generation to generation, so with mixed marriage its not an impossible idea that Black Panther could not cast as white, or at the very least mixed race. Its not a good idea, but its not as unreasonable as it may seem. If a mixed race Spider-Man is what people want I'm sure some people would be fine with a mixed race Black Panther. Regional pride and legacy are what actually make the Black Panther, not the 'black' part.
|
|
|
Post by Kevin Hamilton on Feb 10, 2015 9:48:58 GMT -5
Nick isn't as iconic as Peter, or as ingrained in pop culture. I don't think the comparisons work.
|
|
The Unconquered Sun
King Koopa
He has no pants! What a heathen!
Lord of Storms and Kittens!
Posts: 11,554
|
Post by The Unconquered Sun on Feb 10, 2015 9:55:36 GMT -5
C'mon guys, i love Spider Man and i hate racism. Can't we all agree that we want the next movie to be great, and not be a crap fest like the last 3? In the end, wouldn't we all be happier?
|
|
|
Post by kingoftheindies on Feb 10, 2015 9:56:19 GMT -5
I actually think a movie about Miles could work very well, but in order to really make it work you do need Peter Parker in there at least at the beginning.
But seriously, do we need to have a huge race debate every time a new super hero movie comes out?
|
|
Legion
Fry's dog Seymour
Amy Pond's #1 fan
Hail Hydra!
Posts: 23,357
|
Post by Legion on Feb 10, 2015 9:59:51 GMT -5
Do people think that if Miles gets popular and "iconic" then Marvel will stop printing stories about Parker? I firmly believe its a possibility. Just like they had Nick Fury get replaced by his before unknown black son Marcus, who lost an eye and what do you know his name ALSO was really Nick. Again, I'm pretty neutral overall since I don't really care for the movie universe to begin with, but i think both sides have fair reason to be worried or at least anxious. Here's the big difference, their is nothing intrinsically White about Peter, being white is not a core part of his being at all. The Black Panther comparison is so f***ing weak & foolish it just makes you look bad. Peter's origin is tied into being white though, largely based on Untold Tales of Spider-Man -1 where its revealed Parker's parents actually died because they were SHIELD agents and were infiltrating the Red Skulls organization. However since movies ignore comics, Spider-Man cast in the modern era can b of any colour, just as Black Panther could. The title of Black Panther is a largely inherited one, passed from generation to generation, so with mixed marriage its not an impossible idea that Black Panther could not cast as white, or at the very least mixed race. Its not a good idea, but its not as unreasonable as it may seem. If a mixed race Spider-Man is what people want I'm sure some people would be fine with a mixed race Black Panther. Regional pride and legacy are what actually make the Black Panther, not the 'black' part. If a white cast Black Panther was to go ahead, all you'd have to do is go the way of it being a Tarzan story. Baby is found by king of Wakanda, despite immense pressures of xenophobic isolationist community, king will not allow baby to die. He adopts said baby. 'True' Wakandans are annoyed. The story proceeds in exactly the same way. It would be awful, insulting to the created character and to that characters fans, but it could be easily done with said story without, in any way, damaging said character and as Panther is meant to be isolationist rather than racist, his skin colour shouldn't matter. But it does, because he means something to his fans, in the same way that Peter or Johnny Storm do, and for that reasoning when you adapt printed medium that has a character ingrained in what they should look like and then you change that, people will always criticise and that has nothing to do with racism and everything to do with wanting to see the source material written large. When you aren't making your film look like the source material, majority of fans of that material are going to be annoyed (and even more so when, as in the case of Johnny Storm's actor, he calls superheroes corny and goes on about wanting to be all serious, in a movie with a rock monster, a stretchy man, an invisible woman and a fire dude. Super srs!)
|
|
wisdomwizard
King Koopa
Too Salty
Watching you.
Posts: 11,087
|
Post by wisdomwizard on Feb 10, 2015 11:03:09 GMT -5
Sucks that Arad is still going to be attached. I liked Spider-Man 3, but it would have been better if he didn't mess with it. I actually think a movie about Miles could work very well, but in order to really make it work you do need Peter Parker in there at least at the beginning. But seriously, do we need to have a huge race debate every time a new super hero movie comes out?
No, because this place has a "block" feature, and thus we can ignore anyone who derails these threads.
|
|
|
Post by hotshotalex on Feb 10, 2015 11:13:44 GMT -5
Seeing how race isn't important then I take we're all for Donald Glover for Spider-Man lets go. If he's Peter? Sure. Glover's talented, and could play the role well. Cast Danny Glover as Uncle Ben and I'm in.
|
|
Crimson
Hank Scorpio
Thank you DWade
Posts: 6,511
|
Post by Crimson on Feb 10, 2015 11:21:46 GMT -5
As far as the Peter Parker vs Miles Morales stuff goes; Here's a shocker, the two can coexist on screen together. Marvel has already proven that they have a good track record of allowing two heroes shine well together (Ironman/War Machine, Captain America/Falcon).
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2015 11:22:42 GMT -5
I hope they use spiderwoman or Morales instead.
I'm so tired of Peter Parker/Bruce Wanye/Clark Kent at this point.
Its just boring now.
|
|