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Post by A Platypus Rave is Correct on Feb 10, 2015 11:31:41 GMT -5
Technically there was nothing stopping Marvel from making a Jessica Drew Spider-woman movie before this.
She has no connections to Parker in the regular universe.
Though I could see Sony bitching about the name Spider-woman being used as confusing to audiences or something.
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Post by The Summer of Muskrat XVII on Feb 10, 2015 11:46:04 GMT -5
Cool. Didn't take long for the most exciting comic movie news in ages to become a soapbox for racial discussions, and thinly veiled accusations of racism. Awesome. Even when we win, we lose
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2015 11:48:14 GMT -5
It's awesome, but I'll miss Garfield as Spidey.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Feb 10, 2015 12:09:41 GMT -5
Im fine with both; I just selfishly want Pete playing with big boys (look at the adjective) first.
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Renslayer
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
every time i come around your city...
Posts: 17,201
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Post by Renslayer on Feb 10, 2015 12:39:23 GMT -5
The next question I have is who's gonna be the lead villain for the Spidey movie. I'd love to see Kraven, but he might not be the best person to lead off (maybe by a second or third movie). Mysterio & Vulture could be good starts
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Post by Some Guy on Feb 10, 2015 12:40:23 GMT -5
I firmly believe its a possibility. Just like they had Nick Fury get replaced by his before unknown black son Marcus, who lost an eye and what do you know his name ALSO was really Nick. Again, I'm pretty neutral overall since I don't really care for the movie universe to begin with, but i think both sides have fair reason to be worried or at least anxious. Peter's origin is tied into being white though, largely based on Untold Tales of Spider-Man -1 where its revealed Parker's parents actually died because they were SHIELD agents and were infiltrating the Red Skulls organization. However since movies ignore comics, Spider-Man cast in the modern era can b of any colour, just as Black Panther could. The title of Black Panther is a largely inherited one, passed from generation to generation, so with mixed marriage its not an impossible idea that Black Panther could not cast as white, or at the very least mixed race. Its not a good idea, but its not as unreasonable as it may seem. If a mixed race Spider-Man is what people want I'm sure some people would be fine with a mixed race Black Panther. Regional pride and legacy are what actually make the Black Panther, not the 'black' part. If a white cast Black Panther was to go ahead, all you'd have to do is go the way of it being a Tarzan story. Baby is found by king of Wakanda, despite immense pressures of xenophobic isolationist community, king will not allow baby to die. He adopts said baby. 'True' Wakandans are annoyed. The story proceeds in exactly the same way. It would be awful, insulting to the created character and to that characters fans, but it could be easily done with said story without, in any way, damaging said character and as Panther is meant to be isolationist rather than racist, his skin colour shouldn't matter. But it does, because he means something to his fans, in the same way that Peter or Johnny Storm do, and for that reasoning when you adapt printed medium that has a character ingrained in what they should look like and then you change that, people will always criticise and that has nothing to do with racism and everything to do with wanting to see the source material written large. When you aren't making your film look like the source material, majority of fans of that material are going to be annoyed (and even more so when, as in the case of Johnny Storm's actor, he calls superheroes corny and goes on about wanting to be all serious, in a movie with a rock monster, a stretchy man, an invisible woman and a fire dude. Super srs!) I have seen you make this argument, and it's never not unbelievably bad. Storm is not defined by his race. He is a cocky prick that skates by on his wealth and daredevilness. His race is never important. Hell, Jordan fits all of these descriptions and is the best young actor around. Black Panther is entirely different and stop with the false equivalency bullshit. You can pretend they could conceivably cast a white guy, but it would not be the same thing. There are far too few representations of anything but white dudes, so a major hero like Spidey or Johnny Storm being given to a black guy is awesome. If fans bitch and moan about "THIS ISN'T WHAT I SAW IN THE COMICS!" boo hoo, one of the 95% of white heroes got recast. You can live with every single other white hero. And as an aside, the only good part of Daredevil was Michael Clarke Duncan, who was pretty damn good as a black Kingpin.
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the2ndevil
Grimlock
Super Seducer Survivor
Where Is Your Santa, Now?
Posts: 13,637
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Post by the2ndevil on Feb 10, 2015 12:52:36 GMT -5
I find myself wishing they would do the TV/Netflix route for Spider-Man, instead of being a movie only property.
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Post by Koda, Master Crunchyroller on Feb 10, 2015 12:55:38 GMT -5
X-Men... should remain separate, however. I agree. In my honest opinion, the whole "Mutants are allegory to real-world racism/prejudice" completely falls apart when you have the general public beloving just about every other Superhero. I agree. I honestly think it needs to be separate in the comics, too. Sure, sure, you can make the arguments that everyone else that aren't mutants are mutates and that is suddenly acceptable because they were normal humans who gained powers via mutation after the fact, while the mutants were born with their powers, but really....how can you tell? Either way they'd have mutated DNA, so you'd pretty much have to take their word for it, and in a world where people opening discriminate against mutants but praised mutates, who the hell in their right mind would be, "Oh yeah, I'm totally a mutant!" instead of, "Nah man, I was a normal human, I just got my powers from being bitten by a radioactive wolverine."?
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Legion
Fry's dog Seymour
Amy Pond's #1 fan
Hail Hydra!
Posts: 23,360
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Post by Legion on Feb 10, 2015 12:58:46 GMT -5
If a white cast Black Panther was to go ahead, all you'd have to do is go the way of it being a Tarzan story. Baby is found by king of Wakanda, despite immense pressures of xenophobic isolationist community, king will not allow baby to die. He adopts said baby. 'True' Wakandans are annoyed. The story proceeds in exactly the same way. It would be awful, insulting to the created character and to that characters fans, but it could be easily done with said story without, in any way, damaging said character and as Panther is meant to be isolationist rather than racist, his skin colour shouldn't matter. But it does, because he means something to his fans, in the same way that Peter or Johnny Storm do, and for that reasoning when you adapt printed medium that has a character ingrained in what they should look like and then you change that, people will always criticise and that has nothing to do with racism and everything to do with wanting to see the source material written large. When you aren't making your film look like the source material, majority of fans of that material are going to be annoyed (and even more so when, as in the case of Johnny Storm's actor, he calls superheroes corny and goes on about wanting to be all serious, in a movie with a rock monster, a stretchy man, an invisible woman and a fire dude. Super srs!) I have seen you make this argument, and it's never not unbelievably bad. Storm is not defined by his race. He is a cocky prick that skates by on his wealth and daredevilness. His race is never important. Hell, Jordan fits all of these descriptions and is the best young actor around. Black Panther is entirely different and stop with the false equivalency bullshit. You can pretend they could conceivably cast a white guy, but it would not be the same thing. There are far too few representations of anything but white dudes, so a major hero like Spidey or Johnny Storm being given to a black guy is awesome. If fans bitch and moan about "THIS ISN'T WHAT I SAW IN THE COMICS!" boo hoo, one of the 95% of white heroes got recast. You can live with every single other white hero.And as an aside, the only good part of Daredevil was Michael Clarke Duncan, who was pretty damn good as a black Kingpin. I can understand the point about representation, I very much would like to see a gay character appear, but equally, I would want that character to be Wiccan, or Hulkling or Ms America, I would not want to see them randomly decide to make a character who isn't gay in to comics in to a gay character just to show horn in some equality. I want to see the comic I love and the characters I love on the big screen, looking like they do in the comic. It's as simple as that. Beyond that is where any debate falls apart, because you want to write off the opinion of fans of the character and source material in order to make a statement on equality. I do not accept that point of view any more than than you will accept mine. I shall go and 'boo hoo' in the corner because I want to see what I see in the comics for already stated reasons.
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Post by Big DSR Energy on Feb 10, 2015 13:17:18 GMT -5
I agree. In my honest opinion, the whole "Mutants are allegory to real-world racism/prejudice" completely falls apart when you have the general public beloving just about every other Superhero. I agree. I honestly think it needs to be separate in the comics, too. Sure, sure, you can make the arguments that everyone else that aren't mutants are mutates and that is suddenly acceptable because they were normal humans who gained powers via mutation after the fact, while the mutants were born with their powers, but really....how can you tell? Either way they'd have mutated DNA, so you'd pretty much have to take their word for it, and in a world where people opening discriminate against mutants but praised mutates, who the hell in their right mind would be, "Oh yeah, I'm totally a mutant!" instead of, "Nah man, I was a normal human, I just got my powers from being bitten by a radioactive wolverine."? I completely agree. Hell, the world seems to love Thor, and he was born a god. X-Men should be its own separate universe.
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riseofsetian1981
King Koopa
"I met him fifteen years ago. I was told there was nothing left."
Posts: 10,323
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Post by riseofsetian1981 on Feb 10, 2015 13:34:26 GMT -5
I find myself wishing they would do the TV/Netflix route for Spider-Man, instead of being a movie only property. What for? Spider-Man on Netflix/TV route would look very cheap and wouldn't be as exciting in my opinion. That route works for characters like Daredevil, Spider-Woman, Luke Cage, and Agents of Shield. Spider-Man is a big Marvel character and him being a TV property would be a downgrade from the big screen projection.
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Dukect
Don Corleone
A person who tries to make sense of the senseless
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Post by Dukect on Feb 10, 2015 14:10:54 GMT -5
I find myself wishing they would do the TV/Netflix route for Spider-Man, instead of being a movie only property. What for? Spider-Man on Netflix/TV route would look very cheap and wouldn't be as exciting in my opinion. That route works for characters like Daredevil, Spider-Woman, Luke Cage, and Agents of Shield. Spider-Man is a big Marvel character and him being a TV property would be a downgrade from the big screen projection. So in a wrestling sense he's too big for the midcard but the main event is too full right now with new and interesting talent.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2015 14:20:49 GMT -5
Do people think that if Miles gets popular and "iconic" then Marvel will stop printing stories about Parker? I firmly believe its a possibility. Just like they had Nick Fury get replaced by his before unknown black son Marcus, who lost an eye and what do you know his name ALSO was really Nick. Again, I'm pretty neutral overall since I don't really care for the movie universe to begin with, but i think both sides have fair reason to be worried or at least anxious. Thinking that Marvel is going to just throw aside one of their most popular white characters to tell stories about the black kid instead? That sounds like a very unrealistic fear to me. The fear of a popular black character being cast aside and stuck in narrative limbo for years, possibly decades? Not that I think that’s going to happen to Miles, but Marvel history proves if it’s going to happen it’s going to happen to one of the very few black characters that gets any kind of shine. Miles having at least one movie where he’s the center makes it more difficult to just put him on the shelf for ten or fifteen years. I do think it’s interesting that Parker fans might be quaking in their boots over him being treated like how DC or Marvel tends to treat their black characters. Very interesting.
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riseofsetian1981
King Koopa
"I met him fifteen years ago. I was told there was nothing left."
Posts: 10,323
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Post by riseofsetian1981 on Feb 10, 2015 14:32:21 GMT -5
What for? Spider-Man on Netflix/TV route would look very cheap and wouldn't be as exciting in my opinion. That route works for characters like Daredevil, Spider-Woman, Luke Cage, and Agents of Shield. Spider-Man is a big Marvel character and him being a TV property would be a downgrade from the big screen projection. So in a wrestling sense he's too big for the midcard but the main event is too full right now with new and interesting talent. Sadly yes. There's no point in putting him on a Netflix or TV series because characterwise he's already a trilogy that generated millions, two reboot films that brought in millions as well, and while I do understand what you're saying in regards to him having his own show I just feel it wouldn't last long. You put him in there then Marvel needs to at least have Stark, Thor, or Rogers show up in a similar capacity as well. We know that's not going to happen so it shouldn't happen with Spidey either.
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Post by G✇JI☈A on Feb 10, 2015 14:34:29 GMT -5
So how long before we see a '4 reasons why Spider-Man would actually be bad for the Marvel movies' article on Cracked?
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the2ndevil
Grimlock
Super Seducer Survivor
Where Is Your Santa, Now?
Posts: 13,637
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Post by the2ndevil on Feb 10, 2015 14:35:48 GMT -5
I find myself wishing they would do the TV/Netflix route for Spider-Man, instead of being a movie only property. What for? Spider-Man on Netflix/TV route would look very cheap and wouldn't be as exciting in my opinion. That route works for characters like Daredevil, Spider-Woman, Luke Cage, and Agents of Shield. Spider-Man is a big Marvel character and him being a TV property would be a downgrade from the big screen projection. I just think the character would work better on an episodic format that builds up to bigger event type stories.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2015 14:39:46 GMT -5
Yeah I'm done with this thread. Is it really so damn hard to talk about comic book characters and not have race show up? And here is some news for everyone Sony doesn't care what you want, now that they have the Marvel brand seal of approval they could use Spider pig and the film would still be given license to print money. So yes it sucks that women and minorities are underrepresented but bitching and moaning doesn't do anything but annoy everyone around you.
Also I don't care who they get to be spiderman(as long as it isn't Garfield) but the way some people are acting it's like they just white washed Spider-Man for no reason, 9 times out of 10 he's white so don't be upset if they continue that trend with him.
*heads for door*
Grumble grumble just wanted to talk about super hero's not race relations.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2015 14:45:32 GMT -5
Yea this was supposed to be a celebration of spidey finally going back home and instead took a wrong turn at albuquerque.
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riseofsetian1981
King Koopa
"I met him fifteen years ago. I was told there was nothing left."
Posts: 10,323
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Post by riseofsetian1981 on Feb 10, 2015 14:49:59 GMT -5
What for? Spider-Man on Netflix/TV route would look very cheap and wouldn't be as exciting in my opinion. That route works for characters like Daredevil, Spider-Woman, Luke Cage, and Agents of Shield. Spider-Man is a big Marvel character and him being a TV property would be a downgrade from the big screen projection. I just think the character would work better on an episodic format that builds up to bigger event type stories. Oh, I don't disagree. But that direction is gone since they didn't do it from the beginning. I could've sworn they said the character will appear in the upcoming Daredevil series on Netflix, so not all hope is lost in that department.
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Post by Famous Rocking Chimes on Feb 10, 2015 14:50:57 GMT -5
I'm all for diversity in movies and TV, but to say that one of the biggest superheroes of all time has been jumpstarted to the front ahead of characters like Black Panther and Captain Marvel because he happens to be white is ridiculous and just screams of needing something to complain about.
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