Game of Thrones Season 5

[The Last Hero]

May 20, 2015 13:30:34 GMT -5 chrom said:

I gotta ask, is there something in the air that makes people in Dorne lose their IQ points?

It's just them focusing on the wrong Dornishmen.

[HMARK Center]

May 20, 2015 13:28:12 GMT -5 @mightykretzler said:

May 20, 2015 7:38:54 GMT -5 HMARK Center said:

From the other perspective, I think for some folks this is just a "last straw" moment when it comes to altering the books to include even more rape/sexual violence, as if the books didn't contain enough. This isn't to say, again, that including rape scenes are bad, but I think the main critique I'm reading is that they should accomplish something, and not be tossed in as what amounts to a narrative crutch to depict a woman in trouble. Season One had them change the Dany/Drogo scene from the book; while the book's depiction was definitely creepy, there was at least more consent shown there than in the show (Khal waiting for Dany to say "yes"). Season Four had the friggin' baffling Jaime-raping-Cersei scene, which accomplished nothing, since the whole point of Jaime's arc at that point is that we're supposed to start, y'know, liking him, and the scene in the book was totally consensual. So yeah, I can imagine this being a "strike three, you're out" thing for some people.

I know that a lot of people were upset about the Jaime/Cersei thing and rightly so, but I think that scene (or something similar) was necessary to establish the fact that no, Jaime is not a good guy. Him wandering with Brienne and hanging with Tyrion got him a great deal of sympathy from the audience, he's still the Kingslayer. He's still a turncoat. He's still incestuous. He has principles and he does believe in honor but he's still a monster.

What makes Jaime's story compelling is that he's a monster who fights back against his own nature to be a better person. Sometimes he relapses, and the audience needs to know that.

On the flip side of that, we get Ramsay. Ramsay is also a monster, but unlike Jaime, he embraces his evil nature. He takes pleasure in humiliating Sansa. There is no passion or romance, just a base lust and a desire to inflict pain and suffering. Jaime has flashes of goodness. Ramsay has flashes of appearing good. But while what Jaime does is sincere, Ramsay only wants to look good to others as a smokescreen for his true self.

The notion that Jaime can "relapse" is fine, definitely; I think the problem is that if you're going to have him move from "incest-having, child-out-of-window-tosser" to something more human, having him relapse by full on raping his sister is a hell of a way to bring him way back on the sympathy scale. Hell, the book itself was effective in this: the dude still has sex with his sister on his father's coffin, it's just in the book it's consensual. That's still pretty monstrous.

And again, I think for a lot of folks it's the feeling that rape, something a lot of people want to see depicted with care and with a clear purpose if it's going to be utilized, has begun to feel like a storytelling crutch for the TV series. Again, taking the Dany/Drogo scene, Jaime/Cersei, and now this, it just feels like "Well, we're stuck on how to depict this woman in peril, or we need a way to depict a guy being brutish and vile...it's not a rape in the book? Eh, toss it in, anyway." Obviously, I'm making light of it: I'm sure the writers/showrunners treat it with a hell of a lot more tact than that (evidenced by the way the scene was shot this week), but I can definitely sympathize with people who are out of patience with it, particularly if it feels that it's something that could've been easily avoided while still bringing the narrative to a satisfactory place.

[Confused Mark Wahlberg]

That guy the Snakes somehow killed and buried must feel like a real jerk to get taken out by those three losers

[Deleted]

May 20, 2015 13:55:37 GMT -5 HMARK Center said:

May 20, 2015 13:28:12 GMT -5 @mightykretzler said:

I know that a lot of people were upset about the Jaime/Cersei thing and rightly so, but I think that scene (or something similar) was necessary to establish the fact that no, Jaime is not a good guy. Him wandering with Brienne and hanging with Tyrion got him a great deal of sympathy from the audience, he's still the Kingslayer. He's still a turncoat. He's still incestuous. He has principles and he does believe in honor but he's still a monster.

What makes Jaime's story compelling is that he's a monster who fights back against his own nature to be a better person. Sometimes he relapses, and the audience needs to know that.

On the flip side of that, we get Ramsay. Ramsay is also a monster, but unlike Jaime, he embraces his evil nature. He takes pleasure in humiliating Sansa. There is no passion or romance, just a base lust and a desire to inflict pain and suffering. Jaime has flashes of goodness. Ramsay has flashes of appearing good. But while what Jaime does is sincere, Ramsay only wants to look good to others as a smokescreen for his true self.

The notion that Jaime can "relapse" is fine, definitely; I think the problem is that if you're going to have him move from "incest-having, child-out-of-window-tosser" to something more human, having him relapse by full on raping his sister is a hell of a way to bring him way back on the sympathy scale. Hell, the book itself was effective in this: the dude still has sex with his sister on his father's coffin, it's just in the book it's consensual. That's still pretty monstrous.

And again, I think for a lot of folks it's the feeling that rape, something a lot of people want to see depicted with care and with a clear purpose if it's going to be utilized, has begun to feel like a storytelling crutch for the TV series. Again, taking the Dany/Drogo scene, Jaime/Cersei, and now this, it just feels like "Well, we're stuck on how to depict this woman in peril, or we need a way to depict a guy being brutish and vile...it's not a rape in the book? Eh, toss it in, anyway." Obviously, I'm making light of it: I'm sure the writers/showrunners treat it with a hell of a lot more tact than that (evidenced by the way the scene was shot this week), but I can definitely sympathize with people who are out of patience with it, particularly if it feels that it's something that could've been easily avoided while still bringing the narrative to a satisfactory place.

Yeah, I don't think the did the right thing with the Jaime/Cersei scene. But I think it was them concerned that anything else wouldn't be enough. Them having consensual sex would be gross, but a great deal of people probably would've been okay with that. They needed something that absolutely would ruffle some feathers, and that scene did it. They couldn't afford to gamble with a scene that didn't emphasize what they wanted to get across with Jaime.

I feel the same way about the Sansa/Ramsay scene. Want to make Ramsay look like a monster who victimizes Sansa? They can't do to her what he did to Theon. That's just a retread. Besides, that and most other potential acts would turn into a time suck, and unless they want to shoot 90 minute episodes instead of 60 minute episodes, that probably won't happen. Ramsay is sexually violent. He's also a rapist in the books. So of anyone out there committing rape, Ramsay is the most obvious guy to do it.

The one I don't understand was that Daeny/Drogo scene. That one really didn't make sense, especially with how closely they tried to follow the books at the onset.

[Cela]

May 20, 2015 14:30:40 GMT -5 @mightykretzler said:

May 20, 2015 13:55:37 GMT -5 HMARK Center said:

The notion that Jaime can "relapse" is fine, definitely; I think the problem is that if you're going to have him move from "incest-having, child-out-of-window-tosser" to something more human, having him relapse by full on raping his sister is a hell of a way to bring him way back on the sympathy scale. Hell, the book itself was effective in this: the dude still has sex with his sister on his father's coffin, it's just in the book it's consensual. That's still pretty monstrous.

And again, I think for a lot of folks it's the feeling that rape, something a lot of people want to see depicted with care and with a clear purpose if it's going to be utilized, has begun to feel like a storytelling crutch for the TV series. Again, taking the Dany/Drogo scene, Jaime/Cersei, and now this, it just feels like "Well, we're stuck on how to depict this woman in peril, or we need a way to depict a guy being brutish and vile...it's not a rape in the book? Eh, toss it in, anyway." Obviously, I'm making light of it: I'm sure the writers/showrunners treat it with a hell of a lot more tact than that (evidenced by the way the scene was shot this week), but I can definitely sympathize with people who are out of patience with it, particularly if it feels that it's something that could've been easily avoided while still bringing the narrative to a satisfactory place.

Yeah, I don't think the did the right thing with the Jaime/Cersei scene. But I think it was them concerned that anything else wouldn't be enough. Them having consensual sex would be gross, but a great deal of people probably would've been okay with that. They needed something that absolutely would ruffle some feathers, and that scene did it. They couldn't afford to gamble with a scene that didn't emphasize what they wanted to get across with Jaime.

I feel the same way about the Sansa/Ramsay scene. Want to make Ramsay look like a monster who victimizes Sansa? They can't do to her what he did to Theon. That's just a retread. Besides, that and most other potential acts would turn into a time suck, and unless they want to shoot 90 minute episodes instead of 60 minute episodes, that probably won't happen. Ramsay is sexually violent. He's also a rapist in the books. So of anyone out there committing rape, Ramsay is the most obvious guy to do it.

The one I don't understand was that Daeny/Drogo scene. That one really didn't make sense, especially with how closely they tried to follow the books at the onset.

To be fair, Dany/Drogo wedding night in the book was terrible writing that smarked of bad harlequin romance. The show depiction was a lot more realistic of what happens when the barbarian leader of a horde of warrior rapists marries a 12 year old.

[Mochi Lone Wolf]

May 20, 2015 14:21:15 GMT -5 Confused Mark Wahlberg said:

That guy the Snakes somehow killed and buried must feel like a real jerk to get taken out by those three losers

Wasn't that guy trying to help them as well? Do these girls have any redeeming qualities?


Again, at least guys like Ramsey and Tywin were entertaining in some way along with their overall dickishness.

[Mochi Lone Wolf]

May 20, 2015 13:55:37 GMT -5 HMARK Center said:

May 20, 2015 13:28:12 GMT -5 @mightykretzler said:

I know that a lot of people were upset about the Jaime/Cersei thing and rightly so, but I think that scene (or something similar) was necessary to establish the fact that no, Jaime is not a good guy. Him wandering with Brienne and hanging with Tyrion got him a great deal of sympathy from the audience, he's still the Kingslayer. He's still a turncoat. He's still incestuous. He has principles and he does believe in honor but he's still a monster.

What makes Jaime's story compelling is that he's a monster who fights back against his own nature to be a better person. Sometimes he relapses, and the audience needs to know that.

On the flip side of that, we get Ramsay. Ramsay is also a monster, but unlike Jaime, he embraces his evil nature. He takes pleasure in humiliating Sansa. There is no passion or romance, just a base lust and a desire to inflict pain and suffering. Jaime has flashes of goodness. Ramsay has flashes of appearing good. But while what Jaime does is sincere, Ramsay only wants to look good to others as a smokescreen for his true self.

The notion that Jaime can "relapse" is fine, definitely; I think the problem is that if you're going to have him move from "incest-having, child-out-of-window-tosser" to something more human, having him relapse by full on raping his sister is a hell of a way to bring him way back on the sympathy scale. Hell, the book itself was effective in this: the dude still has sex with his sister on his father's coffin, it's just in the book it's consensual. That's still pretty monstrous.

And again, I think for a lot of folks it's the feeling that rape, something a lot of people want to see depicted with care and with a clear purpose if it's going to be utilized, has begun to feel like a storytelling crutch for the TV series. Again, taking the Dany/Drogo scene, Jaime/Cersei, and now this, it just feels like "Well, we're stuck on how to depict this woman in peril, or we need a way to depict a guy being brutish and vile...it's not a rape in the book? Eh, toss it in, anyway." Obviously, I'm making light of it: I'm sure the writers/showrunners treat it with a hell of a lot more tact than that (evidenced by the way the scene was shot this week), but I can definitely sympathize with people who are out of patience with it, particularly if it feels that it's something that could've been easily avoided while still bringing the narrative to a satisfactory place.

Did they have sex on Tywin's coffin as well? I thought it was Joffrey's body that they had sex by. Granted, it's been a while since I read A Feast For Crows.

[Seth Drakin of Monster Crap]

May 20, 2015 17:28:16 GMT -5 Mochi Lone Wolf said:

May 20, 2015 13:55:37 GMT -5 HMARK Center said:

The notion that Jaime can "relapse" is fine, definitely; I think the problem is that if you're going to have him move from "incest-having, child-out-of-window-tosser" to something more human, having him relapse by full on raping his sister is a hell of a way to bring him way back on the sympathy scale. Hell, the book itself was effective in this: the dude still has sex with his sister on his father's coffin, it's just in the book it's consensual. That's still pretty monstrous.

And again, I think for a lot of folks it's the feeling that rape, something a lot of people want to see depicted with care and with a clear purpose if it's going to be utilized, has begun to feel like a storytelling crutch for the TV series. Again, taking the Dany/Drogo scene, Jaime/Cersei, and now this, it just feels like "Well, we're stuck on how to depict this woman in peril, or we need a way to depict a guy being brutish and vile...it's not a rape in the book? Eh, toss it in, anyway." Obviously, I'm making light of it: I'm sure the writers/showrunners treat it with a hell of a lot more tact than that (evidenced by the way the scene was shot this week), but I can definitely sympathize with people who are out of patience with it, particularly if it feels that it's something that could've been easily avoided while still bringing the narrative to a satisfactory place.

Did they have sex on Tywin's coffin as well? I thought it was Joffrey's body that they had sex by. Granted, it's been a while since I read A Feast For Crows.

No, they never had sex in front of their father's body, it was just in front of Joffrey's body.

[HMARK Center]

May 20, 2015 17:28:16 GMT -5 Mochi Lone Wolf said:

May 20, 2015 13:55:37 GMT -5 HMARK Center said:

The notion that Jaime can "relapse" is fine, definitely; I think the problem is that if you're going to have him move from "incest-having, child-out-of-window-tosser" to something more human, having him relapse by full on raping his sister is a hell of a way to bring him way back on the sympathy scale. Hell, the book itself was effective in this: the dude still has sex with his sister on his father's coffin, it's just in the book it's consensual. That's still pretty monstrous.

And again, I think for a lot of folks it's the feeling that rape, something a lot of people want to see depicted with care and with a clear purpose if it's going to be utilized, has begun to feel like a storytelling crutch for the TV series. Again, taking the Dany/Drogo scene, Jaime/Cersei, and now this, it just feels like "Well, we're stuck on how to depict this woman in peril, or we need a way to depict a guy being brutish and vile...it's not a rape in the book? Eh, toss it in, anyway." Obviously, I'm making light of it: I'm sure the writers/showrunners treat it with a hell of a lot more tact than that (evidenced by the way the scene was shot this week), but I can definitely sympathize with people who are out of patience with it, particularly if it feels that it's something that could've been easily avoided while still bringing the narrative to a satisfactory place.

Did they have sex on Tywin's coffin as well? I thought it was Joffrey's body that they had sex by. Granted, it's been a while since I read A Feast For Crows.

Shit, you're right, I had it mixed up.

...Though the notion they'd have sex by Joffrey's body, THEN go and have sex by Tywin's body wouldn't shock me in the least. Those two crazy kids, eh?

[Perd]

Yeah, It was Joffrey. I think Tywin's body smelled too bad for any impromptu incest.

[Mochi Lone Wolf]

May 20, 2015 18:02:12 GMT -5 Perd said:

Yeah, It was Joffrey. I think Tywin's body smelled too bad for any impromptu incest.

Oh. I remember that now. Martin really does know how to give one last big "F*** you!" at the more despicable character's funerals.


Maybe when Walder Frey finally croaks, they'll serve pie at his funeral.

[Deleted]

May 20, 2015 14:34:18 GMT -5 Cela said:

May 20, 2015 14:30:40 GMT -5 @mightykretzler said:

Yeah, I don't think the did the right thing with the Jaime/Cersei scene. But I think it was them concerned that anything else wouldn't be enough. Them having consensual sex would be gross, but a great deal of people probably would've been okay with that. They needed something that absolutely would ruffle some feathers, and that scene did it. They couldn't afford to gamble with a scene that didn't emphasize what they wanted to get across with Jaime.

I feel the same way about the Sansa/Ramsay scene. Want to make Ramsay look like a monster who victimizes Sansa? They can't do to her what he did to Theon. That's just a retread. Besides, that and most other potential acts would turn into a time suck, and unless they want to shoot 90 minute episodes instead of 60 minute episodes, that probably won't happen. Ramsay is sexually violent. He's also a rapist in the books. So of anyone out there committing rape, Ramsay is the most obvious guy to do it.

The one I don't understand was that Daeny/Drogo scene. That one really didn't make sense, especially with how closely they tried to follow the books at the onset.

To be fair, Dany/Drogo wedding night in the book was terrible writing that smarked of bad harlequin romance. The show depiction was a lot more realistic of what happens when the barbarian leader of a horde of warrior rapists marries a 12 year old.

"A lot more realistic" in a world with purple-eyed people who are immune to fire, dragons who fly around, and shades that murder people after pouring out of people's wombs. It's not like the scene defied basic physics, or something. It was a brutish barbarian who understood "yes" and "no" with his wife.

[Hakumental]

I read a comment that said "Charles Dance was keeping the show on life support." I don't know that I'd go quite that far, but I have to say this is the first season where the loss of quality actors and strong characters has been especially noticeable. Usually the show has been good about replacing the talent it axes (heh), but this season feels like they couldn't get anyone interesting enough to fill all those empty shoes. (Poor Ciaran Hinds. He's in Charles Dance's league and he didn't even make it two episodes.)

Casting Euron and Victarion Greyjoy would solve this problem in a heartbeat and give Dany's arc a hope spot for new developments, but they're looking like remote possibilities at best.

One killer actress for Arianne Martell would have been worth any amount of Sand Xenas. Areo Hotah doesn't exactly set the screen on fire.

Sending Jaime to the Riverlands would have let them bring back Brynden and Edmure Tully (both great actors), and it would've been easy to write Walder Frey in there, subbing for Genna's husband in the books. The Red Wedding looks increasingly forgotten without them.

No Kettleblacks = a huge missed opportunity. Small parts, but meaningful and memorable in the right actors' hands. Cersei and Littlefinger are both hurting in the show without them.

Don't even get me started about what cutting Stoneheart/BWB has done.

The North stuff with Stannis/Jon/Night's Watch is still interesting, and I'm enjoying Jorah and Tyrion's wanderings, but I hope they have a game plan for the home stretch, because this season has made for really weak TV.

[The Last Hero]

May 20, 2015 18:18:28 GMT -5 Mochi Lone Wolf said:

May 20, 2015 18:02:12 GMT -5 Perd said:

Yeah, It was Joffrey. I think Tywin's body smelled too bad for any impromptu incest.

Oh. I remember that now. Martin really does know how to give one last big "F*** you!" at the more despicable character's funerals.


Maybe when Walder Frey finally croaks, they'll serve pie at his funeral.

I always thought there was something more to Tywin being very stanky at his funeral. The theory that Oberyn poisoned him has always been my favorite.

link

[Mochi Lone Wolf]

May 20, 2015 22:07:24 GMT -5 The Last Hero said:

May 20, 2015 18:18:28 GMT -5 Mochi Lone Wolf said:

Oh. I remember that now. Martin really does know how to give one last big "F*** you!" at the more despicable character's funerals.


Maybe when Walder Frey finally croaks, they'll serve pie at his funeral.

I always thought there was something more to Tywin being very stanky at his funeral. The theory that Oberyn poisoned him has always been my favorite.

link

It would explain why he was in the privy and why so much of the contents flowed out after Tyrion shot him. I'm sure Oberyn would know how to make and use Widow's blood.


I'd much rather have an axe through my head than deal with some of those poisons if I lived in that world.

[Futureraven: Beelzebruv]

May 20, 2015 21:15:57 GMT -5 Hakumental said:

I read a comment that said "Charles Dance was keeping the show on life support." I don't know that I'd go quite that far, but I have to say this is the first season where the loss of quality actors and strong characters has been especially noticeable. Usually the show has been good about replacing the talent it axes (heh), but this season feels like they couldn't get anyone interesting enough to fill all those empty shoes. (Poor Ciaran Hinds. He's in Charles Dance's league and he didn't even make it two episodes.)

Casting Euron and Victarion Greyjoy would solve this problem in a heartbeat and give Dany's arc a hope spot for new developments, but they're looking like remote possibilities at best.

One killer actress for Arianne Martell would have been worth any amount of Sand Xenas. Areo Hotah doesn't exactly set the screen on fire.

Sending Jaime to the Riverlands would have let them bring back Brynden and Edmure Tully (both great actors), and it would've been easy to write Walder Frey in there, subbing for Genna's husband in the books. The Red Wedding looks increasingly forgotten without them.

No Kettleblacks = a huge missed opportunity. Small parts, but meaningful and memorable in the right actors' hands. Cersei and Littlefinger are both hurting in the show without them.

Don't even get me started about what cutting Stoneheart/BWB has done.

The North stuff with Stannis/Jon/Night's Watch is still interesting, and I'm enjoying Jorah and Tyrion's wanderings, but I hope they have a game plan for the home stretch, because this season has made for really weak TV.

I think that it's more killing off your 2 main villains in a season and not having much to replace them with, it's removed quite a bit of the drama.

As much of a little shit he was, Joffery was a great villain, a cowardly child with power over a whole kingdom.

Then there's Tywin, the real power, a magnificent bastard who was pulling strings all over the world.

Who do we have now? Littlefinger's still more in the shadows, Cerci's pathetically small minded ad short sighted, the Boltons are only focussed in the north.

Jon and Danys stories have never really had bad guys anyway, but there needs to be a real, big threat from somewhere.

Killing those 2 guys have removed a lot of the scale and grandeur of the plot, now we have a lot of tiny conflicts tiding us over till a bigger one comes along.

[The Last Hero]

May 21, 2015 1:03:07 GMT -5 Futureraven: Beelzebruv said:

May 20, 2015 21:15:57 GMT -5 Hakumental said:

I think that it's more killing off your 2 main villains in a season and not having much to replace them with, it's removed quite a bit of the drama.

As much of a little shit he was, Joffery was a great villain, a cowardly child with power over a whole kingdom.

Then there's Tywin, the real power, a magnificent bastard who was pulling strings all over the world.

Who do we have now? Littlefinger's still more in the shadows, Cerci's pathetically small minded ad short sighted, the Boltons are only focussed in the north.

Jon and Danys stories have never really had bad guys anyway, but there needs to be a real, big threat from somewhere.

Killing those 2 guys have removed a lot of the scale and grandeur of the plot, now we have a lot of tiny conflicts tiding us over till a bigger one comes along.

I wonder if Cercei would even attempt this with Joffrey still alive, Tywin obviously not but with Joffrey still alive and kicking he would probably have ordered his kingsguard and gold cloak to kill every damn sparrow in the city.

[YAKMAN is ICHIBAN]

May 20, 2015 21:15:57 GMT -5 Hakumental said:

I read a comment that said "Charles Dance was keeping the show on life support." I don't know that I'd go quite that far, but I have to say this is the first season where the loss of quality actors and strong characters has been especially noticeable. Usually the show has been good about replacing the talent it axes (heh), but this season feels like they couldn't get anyone interesting enough to fill all those empty shoes. (Poor Ciaran Hinds. He's in Charles Dance's league and he didn't even make it two episodes.)


Casting Euron and Victarion Greyjoy would solve this problem in a heartbeat and give Dany's arc a hope spot for new developments, but they're looking like remote possibilities at best.

One killer actress for Arianne Martell would have been worth any amount of Sand Xenas. Areo Hotah doesn't exactly set the screen on fire.

Sending Jaime to the Riverlands would have let them bring back Brynden and Edmure Tully (both great actors), and it would've been easy to write Walder Frey in there, subbing for Genna's husband in the books. The Red Wedding looks increasingly forgotten without them.

No Kettleblacks = a huge missed opportunity. Small parts, but meaningful and memorable in the right actors' hands. Cersei and Littlefinger are both hurting in the show without them.

Don't even get me started about what cutting Stoneheart/BWB has done.

The North stuff with Stannis/Jon/Night's Watch is still interesting, and I'm enjoying Jorah and Tyrion's wanderings, but I hope they have a game plan for the home stretch, because this season has made for really weak TV.

Jorah Mormant has been slowly absorbing characters. He is now likely going to be playing the roles of both Jon Connington and Barristan Selmy, might as well cure his greyscale with magic and have him absorb some of Euron too. Of course that means he is also Daario and Benjen, and a secret merman.


I need to read r/asoiaf less.

[Futureraven: Beelzebruv]

May 21, 2015 7:35:32 GMT -5 The Last Hero said:

May 21, 2015 1:03:07 GMT -5 Futureraven: Beelzebruv said:

I think that it's more killing off your 2 main villains in a season and not having much to replace them with, it's removed quite a bit of the drama.

As much of a little shit he was, Joffery was a great villain, a cowardly child with power over a whole kingdom.

Then there's Tywin, the real power, a magnificent bastard who was pulling strings all over the world.

Who do we have now? Littlefinger's still more in the shadows, Cerci's pathetically small minded ad short sighted, the Boltons are only focussed in the north.

Jon and Danys stories have never really had bad guys anyway, but there needs to be a real, big threat from somewhere.

Killing those 2 guys have removed a lot of the scale and grandeur of the plot, now we have a lot of tiny conflicts tiding us over till a bigger one comes along.

I wonder if Cercei would even attempt this with Joffrey still alive, Tywin obviously not but with Joffrey still alive and kicking he would probably have ordered his kingsguard and gold cloak to kill every damn sparrow in the city.

I think she might have, getting rid of the Tyrells has taken over everything in her mind, and Joffery was already falling under Margaery's sway.

The difference is, as you say, Joffery would fight back, and there'd be a total bloodbath.

[Crimson]

May 21, 2015 9:20:30 GMT -5 Futureraven: Beelzebruv said:

May 21, 2015 7:35:32 GMT -5 The Last Hero said:

I wonder if Cercei would even attempt this with Joffrey still alive, Tywin obviously not but with Joffrey still alive and kicking he would probably have ordered his kingsguard and gold cloak to kill every damn sparrow in the city.

I think she might have, getting rid of the Tyrells has taken over everything in her mind, and Joffery was already falling under Margaery's sway.

The difference is, as you say, Joffery would fight back, and there'd be a total bloodbath.

Part of me question if Cersei would've gotten that far though. Joffrey definitely would have attended those Small Council meetings, so I doubt that Cersei would have been able to disband so many of it's members.