chazraps
Wade Wilson
Better have my money when I come-a collect!
Posts: 27,955 
|
Post by chazraps on Apr 20, 2015 19:02:25 GMT -5
There's nothing as visually compelling in MOS as Batman Return's Gotham in Winter. Incoherent as the plot may be, when style trumps substance so much, that style becomes substance.
MoS was cool, but utterly joyless and Superman really didn't save anything.
Batman Returns wins.
|
|
Chainsaw
T
A very BAD man.
It is what it is
Posts: 90,480
|
Post by Chainsaw on Apr 20, 2015 20:01:01 GMT -5
Batman Returns by so many miles.
|
|
|
|
Post by Red Impact on Apr 20, 2015 20:15:43 GMT -5
Batman Returns wasn't a masterpiece, but it didn't have me groaning about how the characters acted, I had to save that for Joel Schumacher. Man of Steel did, it made a few major characters completely unlikable and made Superman out to be a pretty terrible hero, not even taking the neck snapping into account.
And I'm not ever goingto say that Superman can't be serious, but nothing about the movie seemed bright at all. For a character like Superman, that doesn't work as well.
|
|
Crimson
Hank Scorpio
Thank you DWade
Posts: 6,511
|
Post by Crimson on Apr 20, 2015 20:22:23 GMT -5
Batman Returns, flawed as it was, was a structurally better film.
|
|
|
|
Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Apr 20, 2015 23:54:09 GMT -5
Depends. MoS had much better structure than Batman Returns as mentioned, but it tried too hard to be edgy for Superman.
IMO, the final battle for Metropolis should have ended once Superman destroyed Zod's ship (and plans in the process). Then Supes should have used some hidden mechanic flaw in their suits to subdue them so the military could take them in or something, I dunno.
Cutting out that entire bleak last punch out/building smash/execution would have instantly improved the tone of the movie, since all the prior devastation before that was unquestionably Zod's fault. Then they could have used Superman's desire to clean the city up colliding with Luthor's agenda, and they still would have a great lead-in to BvsSDoJ.
|
|
|
|
Post by A Platypus Rave on Apr 21, 2015 11:19:07 GMT -5
Depends. MoS had much better structure than Batman Returns as mentioned, but it tried too hard to be edgy for Superman. IMO, the final battle for Metropolis should have ended once Superman destroyed Zod's ship (and plans in the process). Then Supes should have used some hidden mechanic flaw in their suits to subdue them so the military could take them in or something, I dunno. Cutting out that entire bleak last punch out/building smash/execution would have instantly improved the tone of the movie, since all the prior devastation before that was unquestionably Zod's fault. Then they could have used Superman's desire to clean the city up colliding with Luthor's agenda, and they still would have a great lead-in to BvsSDoJ. While it would have helped it still leaves in things like the butchering of Pa Kent's character... For starters his death is supposed to be a lesson that not even Superman can save everyone.... which is why his death is usually a heart attack or a car accident when Clark's not around. |
|
|
|
Post by Amazing Kitsune on Apr 21, 2015 12:35:19 GMT -5
Mistletoe is deadly if you eat it...
|
|
|
|
Post by Red Impact on Apr 21, 2015 12:37:56 GMT -5
Depends. MoS had much better structure than Batman Returns as mentioned, but it tried too hard to be edgy for Superman. IMO, the final battle for Metropolis should have ended once Superman destroyed Zod's ship (and plans in the process). Then Supes should have used some hidden mechanic flaw in their suits to subdue them so the military could take them in or something, I dunno. Cutting out that entire bleak last punch out/building smash/execution would have instantly improved the tone of the movie, since all the prior devastation before that was unquestionably Zod's fault. Then they could have used Superman's desire to clean the city up colliding with Luthor's agenda, and they still would have a great lead-in to BvsSDoJ. While it would have helped it still leaves in things like the butchering of Pa Kent's character... For starters his death is supposed to be a lesson that not even Superman can save everyone.... which is why his death is usually a heart attack or a car accident when Clark's not around. Or Superman's apparent inability to take a fight away from the densely populated area, even when that densely populated area is the only one for miles. |
|
|
|
Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Apr 21, 2015 12:38:19 GMT -5
Depends. MoS had much better structure than Batman Returns as mentioned, but it tried too hard to be edgy for Superman. IMO, the final battle for Metropolis should have ended once Superman destroyed Zod's ship (and plans in the process). Then Supes should have used some hidden mechanic flaw in their suits to subdue them so the military could take them in or something, I dunno. Cutting out that entire bleak last punch out/building smash/execution would have instantly improved the tone of the movie, since all the prior devastation before that was unquestionably Zod's fault. Then they could have used Superman's desire to clean the city up colliding with Luthor's agenda, and they still would have a great lead-in to BvsSDoJ. While it would have helped it still leaves in things like the butchering of Pa Kent's character... For starters his death is supposed to be a lesson that not even Superman can save everyone.... which is why his death is usually a heart attack or a car accident when Clark's not around. 'Ey, whatever it takes. A flawed Superman film >>>> a great Batman film.  |
|
|
|
Post by OGBoardPoster2005 on Apr 21, 2015 14:43:38 GMT -5
Batman Returns easily. Its one of my favorite movies of all-time, and 3rd behind Batman and The Dark Knight.
|
|
|
|
Post by CuJ0 Will Keep Dancing on Apr 21, 2015 14:54:04 GMT -5
Batman Returns for all its flaws is still probably in the top three of my favourite Batman movies.
I thought MoS was OK. Some great scenes, some poor scenes but I think the biggest thing is I don't really have the desire to watch it again.
While if I see Batman Returns on TV, I'll give it a watch again. So my vote goes to Batman Returns.
|
|
|
|
Post by 'Foretold' Joker on Apr 21, 2015 16:43:45 GMT -5
10 years from now I will still remember far more about Batman Returns than anything from Man of Steel.
|
|
Bub (BLM)
Patti Mayonnaise
advocates duck on rodent violence
Fed. Up.
Posts: 37,742
|
Post by Bub (BLM) on Apr 21, 2015 18:34:31 GMT -5
At least Superman was actually the main character in Man of Steel. It wins by default. Batman Returns is just Tim Burton telling some goofy story about a freakshow bastardization of the Penguin because he detested the actual source material. I can't even tell if it's a decent film or not, because it's such a shitty Batman film.
|
|
|
|
Post by xCompackx on Apr 21, 2015 18:52:38 GMT -5
Considering the only "good" part of Man of Steel is Christopher Meloni's character, I'm going with Batman Returns.
|
|
StuntGranny®
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Not Actually a Granny
Posts: 16,099
|
Post by StuntGranny® on Apr 21, 2015 19:52:42 GMT -5
Batman Returns by a f***ing mile. Man of Steel is a terrible, horrible, no good movie.
Controversial Opinion: Not only is Batman Returns better than Man of Steel, it's also better than Batman Begins and Dark Knight Rises. Take Heath Ledger out of Dark Knight and it's better than that one as well. The Christopher Nolan Batman movies are painfully overrated. I said it in another thread, but we can blame Nolan for the dark and broody garbage we're constantly getting.
|
|
|
|
Post by ThereIsNoAbsurdistOnlyZuul on Apr 22, 2015 5:44:58 GMT -5
By a mile it is Batman Returns. Objectively Burton is a better filmmaker than Snyder, who ends up being more like Tarsem Singh. My biggest complaint for MoS is not the narrative arc (which... has problems, so, so many problems), but rather the way that scenes are not cohesively held together. There is no transition, just cut to new scene. It is disjointed, and disconnecting in the way it is made. It serves to alienate the viewer extensively. It's less a movie, and more just patchwork. They say they are going to go somewhere and they are there. So there is no effort to show progression. So it removes any tension, because the characters are going to be precisely where the plot needs to be, without the plot/pacing allowing for the potential gap for the audience to question if Superman will make it in time. Certainly comic books cut like that. But they aren't movies. They are two separate mediums, and should be constructed in a manner to play up to the stranges of each one according. Otherwise, give us a freaking caption box to say things like "Meanwhile..." or "In a short breathless flight later..." Plus there was a sense of place in Gotham. Even if it was 'Burtonian Earth.' There was color, even for a movie that trended towards a monochrome color palette, you had Michelle Pfeiffer's red, red lips standing as stark contrast. They drew the eye. See here:  You can even see her blue eyes. Usage of color, and the change in her costume, is visually striking. Whereas with Cavill's Superman, they drabbed up the suit. I dunno if it was digitally, but the movie has that washed out, depressing look that a lot of 'realistic' FPS have. See here:  Yeah, the S stands for hope, sure. It doesn't look hopeful. It looks the filter or color was messed with, and is even more depressing than the need by Goyer to inject 'realism' into a Comic Book movie. |
|
|
|
Post by xCompackx on Apr 22, 2015 7:28:27 GMT -5
Batman Returns by a f***ing mile. Man of Steel is a terrible, horrible, no good movie. Controversial Opinion: Not only is Batman Returns better than Man of Steel, it's also better than Batman Begins and Dark Knight Rises. Take Heath Ledger out of Dark Knight and it's better than that one as well. The Christopher Nolan Batman movies are painfully overrated. I said it in another thread, but we can blame Nolan for the dark and broody garbage we're constantly getting. While I disagree when it comes to Batman Begins (always liked that movie), there's plenty of things wrong with The Dark Knight and I still can't watch The Dark Knight Rises without either falling asleep or just turning it off. Anne Hathaway as Selina Kyle is the only saving grace from that. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2016 13:13:04 GMT -5
Having just seen Man of Steel during my first application at a plasma bank (I'll have to redo it, yay  ), I'd argue it was a real sucky film. I mean, for starters (which means we'll be going back to that part again), and I'm not gonna lie; Zod deserved to die, but the problem was that the wrong person was the one that killed him. I mean, Superman shouldn't be killing people, and even if you made Superman feel extremely guilty about it (which happened immediately afterward), you just wind up dealing with an angsty Superman, and while "Superman having doubt" is grounds for good storytelling (such as the storyline a few years back where Superman was discussing matters with other Justice League members and feeling like the world was better off without him) due to his lack of weaknesses, the movie poorly depicts it where you instead feel like Superman needs some drugs. Besides, it also felt like it was going into Michael Bay territory with all of the buildings being blown up and getting demolished with the warfare. Not to mention the fact that the military easily killed Ursa, which called into question the actual abilities of Zod's henchmen. To me, it's proof that the DC movies have severe problems because Batman's the only guy that they want to both protect and develop; all the other characters are fresh pickings for experimentation, including their original superhero. As for Returns, it's an alright movie, though Penguin's funeral scene bothers me to this day with the music they used. I actually thought we were discussing Batman Begins instead of Returns. |
|
|
|
Post by wildojinx on Jan 3, 2016 14:44:53 GMT -5
Even though i did enjoy the zod/superman fight (until the neck-snapping of course), the rest of MoS was unpleasant to me. I think it had to mainly do with the muted color tone used throughout the film (not just Superman's costume either). Batman Returns had its flaws, but at least it still felt like a Batman film, and i loved the winter setting they used as well.
|
|
|
|
Post by 1 Free Moon-Down with Burger on Jan 3, 2016 15:18:39 GMT -5
Nothing in Man of Steel is worse than Penguin humping the Batmobile quarter ride in his trailer.
Or the Bruce Wayne DJ session with a CD.
|
|
), I'd argue it was a real sucky film.
