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Post by Hit Girl on Aug 16, 2018 20:04:03 GMT -5
These Klingons in Discovery are just the shits. They are so un-Klingon like, they may as well have been an entirely different species.
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Aug 16, 2018 21:09:24 GMT -5
The only way a TOS prequel will work is if it has a 1960's aesthetic, with TOS style sets, uniforms, camerawork, hairstyles, sound effects etc...with SFX like those in TOS remastered. That's something the suits running Trek have never understood, and will never understand. That's why Enterprise, Abramstrek and Discovery end up looking as advanced or more advanced than the TNG/DS9 era. The biggest hurdle with sci-fi is real life technological advances outstripping those presented in the presentation. You couldn't make a show with TOS's aesthetic now, because it's so antiquated and quaint by 2018 standards, never mind 200 years from now. It only works for me if I pretend everything that should exist by then does exist, and it's just never shown or used. I feel the JJverse hit everything pitch perfect when it came to aesthetics. Paid homage to the gaudy uniforms in TOS and brought the technology level forward to a more time-appropriate level. My only continuity gripe with Discovery is the uniforms being so vastly different from the TOS styles; I'd have preferred to see a gradual evolution from one uniform style to another (similar to how the TNG-era uniforms evolved from those in TNG season one through to those used in later seasons of DS9 and the movies) rather than an abrupt change to something vastly different (The Motion Picture's pyjamas to the rest of the TOS-era movies).
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Post by Hit Girl on Aug 17, 2018 7:45:32 GMT -5
The only way a TOS prequel will work is if it has a 1960's aesthetic, with TOS style sets, uniforms, camerawork, hairstyles, sound effects etc...with SFX like those in TOS remastered. That's something the suits running Trek have never understood, and will never understand. That's why Enterprise, Abramstrek and Discovery end up looking as advanced or more advanced than the TNG/DS9 era. The biggest hurdle with sci-fi is real life technological advances outstripping those presented in the presentation. You couldn't make a show with TOS's aesthetic now, because it's so antiquated and quaint by 2018 standards, never mind 200 years from now. It only works for me if I pretend everything that should exist by then does exist, and it's just never shown or used. I feel the JJverse hit everything pitch perfect when it came to aesthetics. Paid homage to the gaudy uniforms in TOS and brought the technology level forward to a more time-appropriate level. My only continuity gripe with Discovery is the uniforms being so vastly different from the TOS styles; I'd have preferred to see a gradual evolution from one uniform style to another (similar to how the TNG-era uniforms evolved from those in TNG season one through to those used in later seasons of DS9 and the movies) rather than an abrupt change to something vastly different (The Motion Picture's pyjamas to the rest of the TOS-era movies). The Abramsverse is a a reboot, so visual changes are justified, But if a pre TOS series or film takes place in the prime universe, it must have the TOS aesthetic, otherwise it simply will not work. My advice for the producers is that if they are not willing to go with that aesthetic, they should avoid that time period entirely. Had Discovery been set say 100 years after the TNG/DS9 era, it may have worked much better (which admittedly is optimistic given the piss poor creative team behind it), with more rationale for the visual differences, plus having the advantage of not basing the show around an absurdly out of the blue half sister for Spock, which makes no sense at all.
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Post by BorneAgain on Aug 17, 2018 11:04:07 GMT -5
At the very least they could have tried something in the lost era between the TOS films and TNG. Its a good 60 year period that's relatively unexplored by any onscreen depiction and would probably be easier to create an aesthetic that's roughly between what we saw circa the Undiscovered Country & Encounter at Farpoint. Some of the details from the Enterprise C in Yesterday's Enterprise could be a decent starting point in fact.
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Post by Cyno on Aug 17, 2018 11:49:06 GMT -5
The only way a TOS prequel will work is if it has a 1960's aesthetic, with TOS style sets, uniforms, camerawork, hairstyles, sound effects etc...with SFX like those in TOS remastered. That's something the suits running Trek have never understood, and will never understand. That's why Enterprise, Abramstrek and Discovery end up looking as advanced or more advanced than the TNG/DS9 era. The biggest hurdle with sci-fi is real life technological advances outstripping those presented in the presentation. You couldn't make a show with TOS's aesthetic now, because it's so antiquated and quaint by 2018 standards, never mind 200 years from now. It only works for me if I pretend everything that should exist by then does exist, and it's just never shown or used. I feel the JJverse hit everything pitch perfect when it came to aesthetics. Paid homage to the gaudy uniforms in TOS and brought the technology level forward to a more time-appropriate level. My only continuity gripe with Discovery is the uniforms being so vastly different from the TOS styles; I'd have preferred to see a gradual evolution from one uniform style to another (similar to how the TNG-era uniforms evolved from those in TNG season one through to those used in later seasons of DS9 and the movies) rather than an abrupt change to something vastly different (The Motion Picture's pyjamas to the rest of the TOS-era movies). They explained it that the Discovery Uniforms are currently Federation standard while the solid color ones seen in TOS are right now used on the Constitution class ships (as we've seen glimpses of in S1 and the S2 trailer of Discovery). My guess is that in the timeframe between Discovery and TOS the solid color uniforms become the Federation standard. I do like that the Constitution class ships in Discovery's era have warp nacelles that look like the NX-01's, though. It's sort of a neat nod to the transition from ENT to TOS in terms of ship design aesthetic and warp technology.
I still thought it was interesting that the TNG-style uniforms and early DS9/Voyager-style uniforms were used at the same time, though. Like Sisko and co. would go on a Federation ship with everyone wearing the TNG style, and he even changed into the TNG style for a couple of episodes during the time he and Odo went to Earth to address the Dominion threat. And then everything became more uniform with everyone wearing the First Contact-style uniforms.
And they could go back to the TOS movie era uniforms, which outside of the pants design, still look as aesthetically pleasing now as they did then.
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Post by Hit Girl on Aug 17, 2018 13:07:48 GMT -5
They should do a series with a younger Picard when he was captain of the Stargazer. He was commander of that ship for 22 years, and that period of Trek hasn't been covered in detail. Plenty of material for a series.
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Post by YAKMAN is ICHIBAN on Aug 17, 2018 13:20:05 GMT -5
They should do a series with a younger Picard when he was captain of the Stargazer. He was commander of that ship for 22 years, and that period of Trek hasn't been covered in detail. Plenty of material for a series. I wouldn't envy whomever would step into that role.
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Post by Hit Girl on Aug 17, 2018 14:16:34 GMT -5
They should do a series with a younger Picard when he was captain of the Stargazer. He was commander of that ship for 22 years, and that period of Trek hasn't been covered in detail. Plenty of material for a series. I wouldn't envy whomever would step into that role. It could be done as an animated show, which is a genre Trek has foolishly neglected IMO since the days of TAS which I've always thought is a very good and underrated show. Patrick Stewart could have provided the voice, or maybe a professional voice actor who sounds like him.
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Aug 17, 2018 18:48:03 GMT -5
The biggest hurdle with sci-fi is real life technological advances outstripping those presented in the presentation. You couldn't make a show with TOS's aesthetic now, because it's so antiquated and quaint by 2018 standards, never mind 200 years from now. It only works for me if I pretend everything that should exist by then does exist, and it's just never shown or used. I feel the JJverse hit everything pitch perfect when it came to aesthetics. Paid homage to the gaudy uniforms in TOS and brought the technology level forward to a more time-appropriate level. My only continuity gripe with Discovery is the uniforms being so vastly different from the TOS styles; I'd have preferred to see a gradual evolution from one uniform style to another (similar to how the TNG-era uniforms evolved from those in TNG season one through to those used in later seasons of DS9 and the movies) rather than an abrupt change to something vastly different (The Motion Picture's pyjamas to the rest of the TOS-era movies). The Abramsverse is a a reboot, so visual changes are justified, But if a pre TOS series or film takes place in the prime universe, it must have the TOS aesthetic, otherwise it simply will not work. My advice for the producers is that if they are not willing to go with that aesthetic, they should avoid that time period entirely. Had Discovery been set say 100 years after the TNG/DS9 era, it may have worked much better (which admittedly is optimistic given the piss poor creative team behind it), with more rationale for the visual differences, plus having the advantage of not basing the show around an absurdly out of the blue half sister for Spock, which makes no sense at all. Reboot or not, the Abrams movies have the aesthetic and level of technology TOS would be expected to have if made today. TOS is the way it is because of the limits of 1960s TV budgets and technology, rather than anything in-universe, so why limit yourself to that in 2018? There's decades of hinted-at stories to be told from the pre-TOS era, and avoiding that period because a portion of the fanbase think that mid-23rd century spaceship decor should be plywood walls and panels painted in bright primary colours is daft. I do agree that the Spock connection is a crutch the show really shouldn't have relied on. Much like every Star Wars movie doesn't need to be about the Skywalkers and their extended family, every Star Trek series needn't involve someone connected to the Enterprise or the lineage of the ship itself.
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Oct 6, 2018 20:24:05 GMT -5
NYCC trailer.
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trollrogue
Hank Scorpio
Nashville City of Music!!
Posts: 5,607
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Post by trollrogue on Oct 7, 2018 1:19:44 GMT -5
These Klingons in Discovery are just the shits. They are so un-Klingon like, they may as well have been an entirely different species. I like the different take on it, and the liberal misuse of the Starfleet Universal Translator forcing STD to subtitle the Klingons' speech. It gives their society a more visceral feel and I admit depending on the costume designer of the particular Klingon it's hit/miss, but overall and especially with that sadistic love triangle between Michael/Klingon-Torturer/Klingon-Sleeper it gives you a more emotional idea of how low the depths Klingons (especially females) can stoop during wartime comparing them to the Ideal Klingon of Worf who is honorable to an absolute unconditional fault as his Klingon nindo
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Post by Hit Girl on Oct 7, 2018 9:53:48 GMT -5
These Klingons in Discovery are just the shits. They are so un-Klingon like, they may as well have been an entirely different species. I like the different take on it, and the liberal misuse of the Starfleet Universal Translator forcing STD to subtitle the Klingons' speech. It gives their society a more visceral feel and I admit depending on the costume designer of the particular Klingon it's hit/miss, but overall and especially with that sadistic love triangle between Michael/Klingon-Torturer/Klingon-Sleeper it gives you a more emotional idea of how low the depths Klingons (especially females) can stoop during wartime comparing them to the Ideal Klingon of Worf who is honorable to an absolute unconditional fault as his Klingon nindo Worf was a Starfleet officer, who had to maintain a different moral code than Klingons serving the empire. That being said, TNG showed how duplicitous Klingons can be by their portrayal of the Duras family, and also Kmpec who was willing to throw the House of Mogh under the bus to not offend the Duras family. DS9 went even further and showed Gowron willing to basically risk defeat in the Dominion War in order to undermine Martok.
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Post by Malibu Albino on Oct 7, 2018 19:56:27 GMT -5
Their version of Spock looks like he's about to open up his own brewery.
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trollrogue
Hank Scorpio
Nashville City of Music!!
Posts: 5,607
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Post by trollrogue on Oct 7, 2018 21:24:54 GMT -5
Their version of Spock looks like he's about to open up his own brewery. It's still Zachary Quinto right? I like the different take on it, and the liberal misuse of the Starfleet Universal Translator forcing STD to subtitle the Klingons' speech. It gives their society a more visceral feel and I admit depending on the costume designer of the particular Klingon it's hit/miss, but overall and especially with that sadistic love triangle between Michael/Klingon-Torturer/Klingon-Sleeper it gives you a more emotional idea of how low the depths Klingons (especially females) can stoop during wartime comparing them to the Ideal Klingon of Worf who is honorable to an absolute unconditional fault as his Klingon nindo Worf was a Starfleet officer, who had to maintain a different moral code than Klingons serving the empire. That being said, TNG showed how duplicitous Klingons can be by their portrayal of the Duras family, and also Kmpec who was willing to throw the House of Mogh under the bus to not offend the Duras family. DS9 went even further and showed Gowron willing to basically risk defeat in the Dominion War in order to undermine Martok. I like how they even took it a step further with Alexander on TNG bouncing back and forth between being the 'starfleet' honor and the 'Klingon' honor (aka anything goes in a fight as long as you win) but you are right Worf as the ideal Klingon might have been a flawed observation on my part when in general Klingons have always been pretty unscrupulous
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Post by Cyno on Oct 7, 2018 21:43:22 GMT -5
Worf's unwavering sense of honor and for lack of a better phrase, lack of the ability to have fun, was explained in one of the worst episodes of DS9. Basically, when he was living with his adopted human parents as a kid, he was playing soccer with other kids. He headbutted a kid in his aggression to get the ball and seize victory, but it was so violent that it cracked his skull or something. The kid died and Worf was traumatized by the experience ever since. So between that incident, his general upbringing with humans instead of Klingons, and his Starfleet training, Worf lost a lot of the passion for life other Klingons have. So he's Mr. Serious Klingon all the time.
Also I think I saw a K't'inga or D7-class Klingon ship (the original design, not that incredibly extra version from DIS Season 1) in that Season 2 trailer. And what might've been a Klingon that looked more like the Klingons as seen from the movies on.
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Oct 7, 2018 22:04:03 GMT -5
Also I think I saw a K't'inga or D7-class Klingon ship (the original design, not that incredibly extra version from DIS Season 1) in that Season 2 trailer. And what might've been a Klingon that looked more like the Klingons as seen from the movies on. It does seem like they're course correcting a little to appease the more traditionalist fans. Season one was extremely successful for CBS but they would be stupid not to acknowledge that it was incredibly divisive.
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Futureraven: Beelzebruv
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
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Spent half my life here, God help me
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Post by Futureraven: Beelzebruv on Oct 8, 2018 7:07:36 GMT -5
Worf's unwavering sense of honor and for lack of a better phrase, lack of the ability to have fun, was explained in one of the worst episodes of DS9. Basically, when he was living with his adopted human parents as a kid, he was playing soccer with other kids. He headbutted a kid in his aggression to get the ball and seize victory, but it was so violent that it cracked his skull or something. The kid died and Worf was traumatized by the experience ever since. So between that incident, his general upbringing with humans instead of Klingons, and his Starfleet training, Worf lost a lot of the passion for life other Klingons have. So he's Mr. Serious Klingon all the time.
Also I think I saw a K't'inga or D7-class Klingon ship (the original design, not that incredibly extra version from DIS Season 1) in that Season 2 trailer. And what might've been a Klingon that looked more like the Klingons as seen from the movies on.
It was also explained late on in DS9 by Ezri Dax. The audience basically got a lot of their opinions on the Klingons formed because of Worf and how he acted, the honour etc. But Worf was never a "true" Klingon, he was raised by humans and heard about the honourable, courageous traits of Klingons and tried to live up to that. From TOS, to the political point scoring of the Klingon Ambassador in the movies, to the subterfuge and infighting of The Undiscovered Country to the Game of Thrones like moves of the TNG years. The Klingons were never actually honourable in the way we thought, Worf was. Honestly, it's been the same with the Vulcans. Everyone expects them to be the good, logical guys like Spock, but he was always the exception. When Enterprise or the reboots had Vulcans acting like high and mighty assholes, you'd always get fans complaining that they were being "ruined". But other Vulcans don't have the best record. Watch Amok Time again, there's the sense of superiority, there's underhandedness. In Journey to Babel there's the low key racism. Star Trek 5, like it or not, had Sarek complain about his son's humanity when he was born. These things were always there. It's just Vulcans were very in the background so it didn't come up much.
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Nov 9, 2018 21:41:52 GMT -5
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Dat Dude
Dennis Stamp
Wait, what?
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Post by Dat Dude on Dec 24, 2018 0:14:53 GMT -5
Just got done watching the first season. I Absolutely loved it. I came into the series with the expectations that it would have continuity issues with current canon, but I judged the show based on its own storytelling. And being a long time fan, that season was better than the first season of any other series. I love the cast, the story arcs and the pacing of the action. I really hope the series has some longevity beyond the second season.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2018 10:46:36 GMT -5
I'm rather curious how season two and beyond of the show end up. Season one I mostly think is crap, but that's pretty normal for a Star Trek show so I don't really hold it against the show that much.
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