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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Jan 19, 2019 19:44:31 GMT -5
I'm genuinely surprised at how likeable Anson Mount is as Pike.
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Feb 27, 2019 19:19:22 GMT -5
Despite the assertions of bitter YouTubers, Facebook moaners, and Twitter trolls, who all asserted that the show is dead in the water, season three has been confirmed.
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Post by Muskrat on Feb 27, 2019 19:45:55 GMT -5
I’ve been really enjoying season 2, feel it’s really finding its groove now. And Anson Mount has been killing it as Pike. I’d be fine with him sticking around past this season, think we have a few years of continuity to play with before anything is set in stone.
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Post by Limity (BLM) on Feb 27, 2019 19:47:49 GMT -5
Despite the assertions of bitter YouTubers, Facebook moaners, and Twitter trolls, who all asserted that the show is dead in the water, season three has been confirmed. I don't get the hate for it. I don't watch it, and most likely never will. Like the godawful JJ Abrams version, I disagree with it on a fundamental level. So, I just shrug and say it's not my Star Trek.
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Futureraven: Beelzebruv
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
The Ultimate Arbiter of Right And Wrong
Spent half my life here, God help me
Posts: 15,046
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Post by Futureraven: Beelzebruv on Feb 28, 2019 2:45:07 GMT -5
Despite the assertions of bitter YouTubers, Facebook moaners, and Twitter trolls, who all asserted that the show is dead in the water, season three has been confirmed. I don't get the hate for it. I don't watch it, and most likely never will. Like the godawful JJ Abrams version, I disagree with it on a fundamental level. So, I just shrug and say it's not my Star Trek. It's change, and a very loud and very annoying part of the nerd community hates change. TNG had the same when it started, most movie adaptations of comic books get it, comic books themselves when they make a bit change to continuity, the Star Wars films, Doctor Who etc. Not to get into it, but it's amplified when diversity comes into the equation. It's always "ruins my childhood" so it "isn't really ______" That's why so many anti-Discovery people latched onto The Orville, it's mid 90s Trek, it's safe, it's comforting. For all the legit complaints about Discovery, you can't say it's those things, it takes chances for good and bad. Back to the show, GOD it's so much better now. The down times tend to be when they're taking time to bring in retcons to try and make continuity line up. But the fact they have a solid vision now, and know the road from where it started, which things need to change to make sense, gives me a lot of faith in the show now.
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Post by Muskrat on Feb 28, 2019 5:11:03 GMT -5
I don't get the hate for it. I don't watch it, and most likely never will. Like the godawful JJ Abrams version, I disagree with it on a fundamental level. So, I just shrug and say it's not my Star Trek. It's change, and a very loud and very annoying part of the nerd community hates change. TNG had the same when it started, most movie adaptations of comic books get it, comic books themselves when they make a bit change to continuity, the Star Wars films, Doctor Who etc. Not to get into it, but it's amplified when diversity comes into the equation. It's always "ruins my childhood" so it "isn't really ______" That's why so many anti-Discovery people latched onto The Orville, it's mid 90s Trek, it's safe, it's comforting. For all the legit complaints about Discovery, you can't say it's those things, it takes chances for good and bad. Back to the show, GOD it's so much better now. The down times tend to be when they're taking time to bring in retcons to try and make continuity line up. But the fact they have a solid vision now, and know the road from where it started, which things need to change to make sense, gives me a lot of faith in the show now. The Orville is a delightful little love letter to 90’s Trek. I love that show. The first season of Disco, I feel, took the wrong lessons from the Kelvinverse movies. Abrams succeed here in 2009, with familiar change. Keep enough that people identify and connect, change enough it doesn’t feel like a clone. Season 1 of Disco felt like it was trying to re-build the wheel, and leaned way too hard into change without enough familiarity. It very rarely felt like Star Trek whereas Season 2 has definitely embraced its roots. Not to say Season 1 isn’t good, it is and I’d definitely watch it at least once, but it is a very jarring experience if you’ve grown up on Star Trek. And Klingon nudity, still can’t quite grasp their need for that one
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Futureraven: Beelzebruv
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
The Ultimate Arbiter of Right And Wrong
Spent half my life here, God help me
Posts: 15,046
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Post by Futureraven: Beelzebruv on Feb 28, 2019 5:44:09 GMT -5
It's change, and a very loud and very annoying part of the nerd community hates change. TNG had the same when it started, most movie adaptations of comic books get it, comic books themselves when they make a bit change to continuity, the Star Wars films, Doctor Who etc. Not to get into it, but it's amplified when diversity comes into the equation. It's always "ruins my childhood" so it "isn't really ______" That's why so many anti-Discovery people latched onto The Orville, it's mid 90s Trek, it's safe, it's comforting. For all the legit complaints about Discovery, you can't say it's those things, it takes chances for good and bad. Back to the show, GOD it's so much better now. The down times tend to be when they're taking time to bring in retcons to try and make continuity line up. But the fact they have a solid vision now, and know the road from where it started, which things need to change to make sense, gives me a lot of faith in the show now. The Orville is a delightful little love letter to 90’s Trek. I love that show. The first season of Disco, I feel, took the wrong lessons from the Kelvinverse movies. Abrams succeed here in 2009, with familiar change. Keep enough that people identify and connect, change enough it doesn’t feel like a clone. Season 1 of Disco felt like it was trying to re-build the wheel, and leaned way too hard into change without enough familiarity. It very rarely felt like Star Trek whereas Season 2 has definitely embraced its roots. Not to say Season 1 isn’t good, it is and I’d definitely watch it at least once, but it is a very jarring experience if you’ve grown up on Star Trek. And Klingon nudity, still can’t quite grasp their need for that one The Orville is fine like that, but when people are saying that's the "real" new Star Trek, yeah no that's just wrong. I agree with there being too much change, which I'd put down to the initial producers, the new Klingons, the war, the Spore Drive etc. I think it's telling that the 2nd half of the season was "quick, let's get into the mirror universe so we don't have to deal with this for a while" then the war was wrapped up SUPER quick, and the Spore drive was made into a special occasions only thing rather than the primary transport.
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Post by Hit Girl on Feb 28, 2019 13:10:38 GMT -5
I doubt change is the issue. DS9 was highly innovative and did things that the franchise had never done before or since and that was twenty years ago. The major bone of contention that I've observed from genuine critics of Discovery is the canon issue.
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Post by Cyno on Feb 28, 2019 13:25:47 GMT -5
Every Star Trek series also takes at least a season or two to find its footing, which any true Trek fan would appreciate. So Season 1 being rough around the edges (and behind the scenes stuff was pretty tumultuous for it, too) isn't a huge departure for Star Trek so much as par for the course. Hell, outside of a handful of standout episodes, Seasons 2 of even TNG and DS9 were mediocre at best, too. So if anything, Discovery's ahead of the curve there.
Though it is strange that so-called Star Trek fans would complain about the diversity in Discovery when Trek as a whole has always pushed the envelope on social issues and cultural diversity. Maybe they're not as big fans as they thought if that's their sticking point.
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Post by Hit Girl on Feb 28, 2019 13:39:30 GMT -5
Every Star Trek series also takes at least a season or two to find its footing, which any true Trek fan would appreciate. So Season 1 being rough around the edges (and behind the scenes stuff was pretty tumultuous for it, too) isn't a huge departure for Star Trek so much as par for the course. Hell, outside of a handful of standout episodes, Seasons 2 of even TNG and DS9 were mediocre at best, too. So if anything, Discovery's ahead of the curve there. Though it is strange that so-called Star Trek fans would complain about the diversity in Discovery when Trek as a whole has always pushed the envelope on social issues and cultural diversity. Maybe they're not as big fans as they thought if that's their sticking point. Those people aren't genuine Trek fans. They are arseholes who simply jump on any cause that raises the profile of racists, sexists, homphobes etc...Unfortunately since moderated official forums were closed, cesspools like Twitter, Facebook and Reddit are now being viewed as the voice of the fans, when they are certainly not. The same applies to Star Wars too. Studios are using this to their benefit since they can deflect legit criticism of their products by associating such critics with the bigots.
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Feb 28, 2019 13:43:58 GMT -5
Hell, outside of a handful of standout episodes, Seasons 2 of even TNG and DS9 were mediocre at best, too. So if anything, Discovery's ahead of the curve there. Even as a big Star Trek fan who owns every movie and box set, this sums up the majority of the franchise - a decent number of very good and great episodes (and movies), an almost equal number of absolute stinkers, and a ton of filler and recycled story themes. Discovery has generally been more good than bad so far, in spite of a few bumps in the road, and definitely seems to have found its footing.
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Post by Cyno on Feb 28, 2019 13:54:45 GMT -5
Hell, outside of a handful of standout episodes, Seasons 2 of even TNG and DS9 were mediocre at best, too. So if anything, Discovery's ahead of the curve there. Even as a big Star Trek fan who owns every movie and box set, this sums up the majority of the franchise - a decent number of very good and great episodes (and movies), an almost equal number of absolute stinkers, and a ton of filler and recycled story themes. Discovery has generally been more good than bad so far, in spite of a few bumps in the road, and definitely seems to have found its footing. Yeah, exactly. We tend to ignore the mediocre and the bad because the good is just really good. That's part of what made DS9 so good is that the later seasons especially DID have more good than bad or filler episodes. And even then you had some stinkers sprinkled in there like the Risa episode, Ezri going back to her homeworld and dealing with her scummy family, Quark in drag, or Vedek Bareil's Mirror Universe counterpart coming to DS9. Or that episode with the Defiant being stuck on a world with some weird temporal shit and the entire crew willing to throw away their lives and obligations to the Federation (in the middle of the war with the Dominion!) for the sake of descendants that shouldn't really exist.
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Post by Limity (BLM) on Feb 28, 2019 14:10:02 GMT -5
Even as a big Star Trek fan who owns every movie and box set, this sums up the majority of the franchise - a decent number of very good and great episodes (and movies), an almost equal number of absolute stinkers, and a ton of filler and recycled story themes. Discovery has generally been more good than bad so far, in spite of a few bumps in the road, and definitely seems to have found its footing. Yeah, exactly. We tend to ignore the mediocre and the bad because the good is just really good. That's part of what made DS9 so good is that the later seasons especially DID have more good than bad or filler episodes. And even then you had some stinkers sprinkled in there like the Risa episode, Ezri going back to her homeworld and dealing with her scummy family, Quark in drag, or Vedek Bareil's Mirror Universe counterpart coming to DS9. Or that episode with the Defiant being stuck on a world with some weird temporal shit and the entire crew willing to throw away their lives and obligations to the Federation (in the middle of the war with the Dominion!) for the sake of descendants that shouldn't really exist. It's funny, with all the highs of DS9's last few seasons, it's like when they did bad episodes, oh man those were some lows. Profit And Lace...what on earth. Maybe they were made more noteworthy because the overall tone and subject of those last seasons was much darker. You'd have episodes dealing with an interstellar war and its effects on the cast, to suddenly here's transsexual Quark being chased by a sexual predator for laughs.
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Futureraven: Beelzebruv
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
The Ultimate Arbiter of Right And Wrong
Spent half my life here, God help me
Posts: 15,046
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Post by Futureraven: Beelzebruv on Feb 28, 2019 15:08:19 GMT -5
I doubt change is the issue. DS9 was highly innovative and did things that the franchise had never done before or since and that was twenty years ago. The major bone of contention that I've observed from genuine critics of Discovery is the canon issue. DS9 was highly innovative and did things that the franchise had never done before and since. And was hated at first. A Star Trek series with no ship? Extended storylines? An actual War? Starfleet has had a shadowy black ups division the whole time? RELIGION? All decisions that were despised at the time, lead to people calling the series non-canon, even getting shots from TNG cast members. They only got away with it because they were the B show. Hell, the show was soft rebooted in seasons 3 and 4 to try and keep an audience. Looking back, it's the best show and amazing. But at the time, a lot of the same kinds of fans made the same kind of complaints about the same kind of things. As said elsewhere, it also got time to find it's groove and get over the mediocre episodes it generally started with.
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Post by Hit Girl on Feb 28, 2019 15:24:43 GMT -5
I doubt change is the issue. DS9 was highly innovative and did things that the franchise had never done before or since and that was twenty years ago. The major bone of contention that I've observed from genuine critics of Discovery is the canon issue. DS9 was highly innovative and did things that the franchise had never done before and since. And was hated at first. A Star Trek series with no ship? Extended storylines? An actual War? Starfleet has had a shadowy black ups division the whole time? RELIGION? All decisions that were despised at the time, lead to people calling the series non-canon, even getting shots from TNG cast members. They only got away with it because they were the B show. Hell, the show was soft rebooted in seasons 3 and 4 to try and keep an audience. Looking back, it's the best show and amazing. But at the time, a lot of the same kinds of fans made the same kind of complaints about the same kind of things. As said elsewhere, it also got time to find it's groove and get over the mediocre episodes it generally started with. Anyone calling DS9 non canon at the time was clearly talking nonsense, as the show was verifiably canon and an in-universe contemporary with TNG. Discovery's canon staus is more dubious due to the CBS/Viacom rights mess. DS9 was never rebooted in any way. The Prophet storyline was maintained from beginning to end, and was ever present even during the Dominion War, the Dominion itself was first referenced just seven episodes into season 2, and the Bajoran/Cardassian situation established two years before DS9 even aired.
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Post by Cyno on Feb 28, 2019 15:45:23 GMT -5
Discovery's canon status isn't in doubt. The rights issues between CBS and Viacom are over the Kelvin timeline movies and Discovery is in the Prime timeline. And like Discovery, all the shows themselves are firmly under CBS's control.
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Futureraven: Beelzebruv
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
The Ultimate Arbiter of Right And Wrong
Spent half my life here, God help me
Posts: 15,046
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Post by Futureraven: Beelzebruv on Feb 28, 2019 15:47:16 GMT -5
DS9 was highly innovative and did things that the franchise had never done before and since. And was hated at first. A Star Trek series with no ship? Extended storylines? An actual War? Starfleet has had a shadowy black ups division the whole time? RELIGION? All decisions that were despised at the time, lead to people calling the series non-canon, even getting shots from TNG cast members. They only got away with it because they were the B show. Hell, the show was soft rebooted in seasons 3 and 4 to try and keep an audience. Looking back, it's the best show and amazing. But at the time, a lot of the same kinds of fans made the same kind of complaints about the same kind of things. As said elsewhere, it also got time to find it's groove and get over the mediocre episodes it generally started with. Anyone calling DS9 non canon at the time was clearly talking nonsense, as the show was verifiably canon and an in-universe contemporary with TNG. Discovery's canon staus is more dubious due to the CBS/Viacom rights mess. DS9 was never rebooted in any way. The Prophet storyline was maintained from beginning to end, and was ever present even during the Dominion War, the Dominion itself was first referenced just seven episodes into season 2, and the Bajoran/Cardassian situation established two years before DS9 even aired. Fans often are when they don't agree with creative decisions. Discovery did start in a bad place with continuity, the Spore drive, Spock's half sister the Klingons, Saru, various bits of tech. But the story isn't over and as time goes on they're bringing things more in line with what's established. Then it'll be stuff like how the Trill in DS9 are completely different to how they were established in TNG, how the Ferengi are a well known economic power rather than a mysterious military foe, the normal inconsistencies that can crop up.
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Post by Cyno on Feb 28, 2019 15:53:04 GMT -5
I'd like to see more diversity within alien species, to be honest. Outside of the ones that are pretty much just humans with different ears, forehead ridges, or nose ridges, a lot of alien races look alike and all have the same culture. Think of how diverse a species humanity is. I'd like to see that with Klingons, Romulans, Ferengi, or Cardassians.
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Post by Hit Girl on Feb 28, 2019 16:06:10 GMT -5
Discovery's canon status isn't in doubt. The rights issues between CBS and Viacom are over the Kelvin timeline movies and Discovery is in the Prime timeline. And like Discovery, all the shows themselves are firmly under CBS's control. Anyone calling DS9 non canon at the time was clearly talking nonsense, as the show was verifiably canon and an in-universe contemporary with TNG. Discovery's canon staus is more dubious due to the CBS/Viacom rights mess. DS9 was never rebooted in any way. The Prophet storyline was maintained from beginning to end, and was ever present even during the Dominion War, the Dominion itself was first referenced just seven episodes into season 2, and the Bajoran/Cardassian situation established two years before DS9 even aired. Fans often are when they don't agree with creative decisions. Discovery did start in a bad place with continuity, the Spore drive, Spock's half sister the Klingons, Saru, various bits of tech. But the story isn't over and as time goes on they're bringing things more in line with what's established. Then it'll be stuff like how the Trill in DS9 are completely different to how they were established in TNG, how the Ferengi are a well known economic power rather than a mysterious military foe, the normal inconsistencies that can crop up. There's a difference between races being retooled after their initial appearance and Discovery beginning as a prequel but bearing very little resemblence to the depiction of Star Trek in TOS it predates by just ten years. If it's the same universe that TOS, TNG, DS9 etc....are set in, then Discovery itself will have to go through major changes or a reset in one form or another to gel with it.
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Futureraven: Beelzebruv
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
The Ultimate Arbiter of Right And Wrong
Spent half my life here, God help me
Posts: 15,046
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Post by Futureraven: Beelzebruv on Feb 28, 2019 16:09:54 GMT -5
Discovery's canon status isn't in doubt. The rights issues between CBS and Viacom are over the Kelvin timeline movies and Discovery is in the Prime timeline. And like Discovery, all the shows themselves are firmly under CBS's control. If it's the same universe that TOS, TNG, DS9 etc....are set in, then Discovery itself will have to go through major changes or a reset in one form or another to gel with it. Fans often are when they don't agree with creative decisions. Discovery did start in a bad place with continuity, the Spore drive, Spock's half sister the Klingons, Saru, various bits of tech. But the story isn't over and as time goes on they're bringing things more in line with what's established. Then it'll be stuff like how the Trill in DS9 are completely different to how they were established in TNG, how the Ferengi are a well known economic power rather than a mysterious military foe, the normal inconsistencies that can crop up. There's a different between races being retooled after their initial appearance and Discovery beginning as a prequel but bearing very little resemblence to the depiction of Star Trek in TOS it predates by just ten years And they've started. 10 years is a long time for a lot of changes. The Enterprise is there, the uniforms are there, Discovery we know ends up abandoned in the far future so lots of stuff like the Spore Drive can be left there, the Klingons are the big issue, and they're showing the houses as more different than ever before, and bringing the ones we see more in line with the TNG Klingons.
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