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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2015 16:55:27 GMT -5
The commentary in the Cesaro/Reigns match was trying so hard to make people impressed with Roman. As an idea it's fine, but it's so hamhanded. There was a point when they said Reigns was the superior athlete, which we can just watch and see that it isn't true. It was funny though it was a collective "that Roman Reigns god DAMN!" by 3 people for 15 seconds straight.
I also think this is relevant: Reigns still hasn't lost clean in a one on one match. They protect him heavily. And that's great! But it's like you get booked that way, or you lose way too often because "you have good matches with everyone" or whatever. Like Ziggler, everyone said "he's too unselfish in the ring, he makes his opponent look good but doesn't make himself look good." What's the excuse with Cesaro then? He looks like a trillion bucks every match. The announcers shilled him hard as well, by the way, not quite as hard as Reigns. But he doesn't get protected like that, he can just lose all the time on account of him wrestling so great.
And there really is only so much protecting to go around. People have to lose, and WWE only wants to feature the top half of the roster on TV. Combine that Cena and Reigns (even more than Cena!), as well as Kane and Big Show being massively protected, and it means a lot of people in (what used to be?) good spots are going to be jobbing all the time, either to those guys or two build up their upcoming challengers, which creates off-shoot, Wheel of Aggression type scenarios.
That's what makes the Reigns push annoying at times. even outside the corny toughest/smartest/funniest/coolest/sexiest guy since Triple H character they're trying to do with him.
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Post by sonofblaine on Nov 18, 2015 0:15:39 GMT -5
I can watch Roman work all day, but give him a mic and I fall asleep.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2015 0:46:26 GMT -5
Roman is all right, but he's no Special K.  |
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baracklesnar
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Post by baracklesnar on Nov 18, 2015 7:56:14 GMT -5
I remember a match he had with Sheamus a few months ago and it was obvious that Vince was in Cole's ear telling him to overemphasize Roman's name every time he said it.
"We're back on Raw with this match between Sheamus and...RRRRRRROMAN RRRRREIGNS!!!!"
Just yelling the guy's name enthusiastically doesn't make him better.
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Post by Oh Cry Me a Screwball on Nov 18, 2015 8:11:47 GMT -5
Why they just dont let roman wrestle? if yesterday he just came out and had the same match with cesaro I think that people would had been more positive with him, but since they made him cut that horrible promo before the match people were reminded on why he has some hate I hear this logic quite a bit, and in most situations I would agree, but Roman is the huge favorite to be crowned champion this Sunday, possibly ascending to being the supposed top star in the business. With that, comes being the focus of 20 minute promos with Hunter and co. No matter what happens, he's going to need to learn how to talk in a very short amount of time. |
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Post by Session Moth is over on Nov 18, 2015 8:27:04 GMT -5
I feel Reigns and Ambrose have everything needed to become the top two stars in the company. It's just WWE will ignore what makes them great and push them in the way they want the character to be.
It would be like if WWE wanted Steve Austin to be the top star in the company using the Ringmaster character instead of allowing him to be the top star using his Stone Cold gimmick which clearly suits him.
I mean Roman is improving everyday in the ring. He is big, strong and has an amazing look. His entrance is fantastic and he is the personification of cool. I watch him coming to the ring and I say to myself "I'm actually starting to like this guy". Then they give him a mic, he talks for 10 minutes and says some terrible cringy line and pulls some stupid face and I remember whay I have little interest in him again.
Play to his strengths WWE! He's not The Rock, stop having him make some stupid wiseass jokes which he can't pull off.
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Sparkybob
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Post by Sparkybob on Nov 18, 2015 9:44:09 GMT -5
I also think this is relevant: Reigns still hasn't lost clean in a one on one match. They protect him heavily. Didn't Beeg Show beat him clean as a whistle on Raw on the road to Mania? |
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tms
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Post by tms on Nov 18, 2015 12:50:38 GMT -5
Commentary said Reigns was a better athlete than Cesaro?
I'm not convinced Reigns is a better athlete than Rusev or Swagger if we're going by hosses. Harper does more impressive stuff for a guy his size.
What a crock.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2015 14:40:49 GMT -5
I also think this is relevant: Reigns still hasn't lost clean in a one on one match. They protect him heavily. Didn't Beeg Show beat him clean as a whistle on Raw on the road to Mania? I thought there was some mild shenanigans with that one, I could be wrong though. I remember that loss being pretty surprising, but I do think there was something that kept it from being a clean loss, like a distraction or something. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2015 20:20:50 GMT -5
I remember a match he had with Sheamus a few months ago and it was obvious that Vince was in Cole's ear telling him to overemphasize Roman's name every time he said it. "We're back on Raw with this match between Sheamus and...RRRRRRROMAN RRRRREIGNS!!!!" Just yelling the guy's name enthusiastically doesn't make him better. Thought they said "we want Sheamus!" |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2015 20:54:44 GMT -5
So basically you're making a "the emperor has no clothes!" argument? Roman's had several matches that a bunch of people liked, but you didn't like them, so therefore they weren't good and people just have lowered expectations. That's really unfair and dismissive, not only to Roman, but to people who liked those matches. The main complaint regarding Roman's ring work was moveset variety. He's addressed this thoroughly, adding a bunch of new power moves to his repertoire, using the Superman Punch as a nearfall instead of a finisher set-up, etc. Beyond that, he's gotten better at selling, and he's always been really athletic for a big guy. Yeah, his best matches this year have been spotfests, but that applies to the entire main roster - the WWE style at this point is nothing but spots and finisher kickouts. |
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Post by AFN: Judge Shred on Nov 18, 2015 21:38:59 GMT -5
The strange thing is, it's taken as common knowledge or fact that Reigns has improved and that he's having great matches, but nobody every says how he has improved exactly or how his matches are actually great. I think his booking since Wrestlemania is somewhat tolerable, so maybe the presentation on TV has made it easier for people to accept that he's improved and that he's having great matches. And related to this idea of not knowing what people are seeing when they say he's improved and having great matches, is that Reigns isn't shit the bed bad. But by virtue of not being completely god awful in the ring, that doesn't make him amazing in the ring either. A case of lowered expectations? Grading on a curve? Take last month's cage match with Wyatt as an example. People thought it was great, which is fine, but I didn't think it was great, but I also didn't think it was bad. It was just okay. Because of the nature of their wrestling styles, as both Wyatt and Reigns are high impact wrestlers, the match has a lot of moments where both guys were basically taking a nap. The match had great high spots, sure, I can admit as much, but great high spots need not a great match make. That's the weird thing with Reigns. He's not a brawler, or a shooter, or a high flyer, or even a hoss. His style is great in tag matches, as there are other guys doing stuff to fill in the moments when he isn't doing anything, and what he does bring to the table in tag matches works really well. But it's just not that interesting to me when Reigns is doing the solo act. That being said, I want him to do well, because I think he can grow into something that could work as The Guy. But, just the same, I don't want WWE to give him the 'to hell with the fans who don't like the guy' babyface push that Cena got, because it f***ing sucked to watch for the past 10 years, and I have no interest in seeing it repeated again with Reigns. WWE needs to let him work heel if he ends up getting heel reactions from fans, as he'll grow as a character and a worker as a solo heel act more than he did as a heel act as a part of a three-man group. He has improved a great deal. Go back and watch his old matches his only grapple was a Samoan drop most matches. It was almost entirely running strikes before (and still is the majority.) He has lots more grapples now, and moves in general. SO he can at least hang in a match without repeating moves as often (I am pretty sure he had one match with like 8 Samoan drops). That said, I still don't want him elevated yet, he still needs work. And more so he needs psychology. Commentary tells us how powerful and great he is, and how dominant, but his matches don't show it. He spends most of every match getting the crap kicked out of him (and he is great at taking a beating, selling it, not so much). If they treated him as a comeback kid and not a dominant force, I think I could take to him more. But the story in the ring and the story from the words creates a hell of a lot of cognitive dissonance. |
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Post by Toilet Paper Roll on Nov 18, 2015 23:09:57 GMT -5
I'll never be interested in Roman Reigns... I really find him as someone who just exists.
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Post by benstudd on Nov 18, 2015 23:41:25 GMT -5
Well he was pretty great tonight Cesaro was great. Reigns just along for the ride. |
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Post by benstudd on Nov 18, 2015 23:44:23 GMT -5
Vince is not giving up on Romans,he has been doing EVERYTHING for Roman since the Shield He is a long time pet project and he will burn the company to the crowd before he gives up. Well then he'll go to 1.5 in the ratings. He won't to burn the company, it's gonna do that by itself. |
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Post by 111111 on Nov 19, 2015 3:45:17 GMT -5
They can't afford for Roman to fail.
In the corporate world of wrestling the marketing pushes are planned months in advance.
Where I work the only WWE toy on display with all the "must have" christmas toys in the busiest walkway of the store is the Roman Reigns create a wrestler one, I don't think we have much of any other WWE merch other than the video games and 1 John Cena t shirt in a childs size.
They probably have a shit ton of different things made/printed with Romans likeness plastered all over them ready for wrestlemania as well.
The noise the crowd is making doesn't really matter to a behemoth the size of WWE as much as shifting low to produce high profit margin toys and tshirts.
I mean has the "divisive crowd" ever affected Cenas ability to shift merch? quite the opposite, Cena has been the cash cow for years despite being booed out of some arenas, all you have to do is go to a house show (even one he's not on) and see how many kids in Cena shirts are there to make you realise why they pushed him so much and what they are attempting to do with Roman.
I don't even think Roman is a bad choice for that role. He's not an amazing wrestler or any thing, but he's young, charismatic, has a good set of genes and the ladies seem to think he's hot.
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Post by Dub H on Nov 19, 2015 16:23:25 GMT -5
They can't afford for Roman to fail. In the corporate world of wrestling the marketing pushes are planned months in advance. Where I work the only WWE toy on display with all the "must have" christmas toys in the busiest walkway of the store is the Roman Reigns create a wrestler one, I don't think we have much of any other WWE merch other than the video games and 1 John Cena t shirt in a childs size. They probably have a shit ton of different things made/printed with Romans likeness plastered all over them ready for wrestlemania as well. The noise the crowd is making doesn't really matter to a behemoth the size of WWE as much as shifting low to produce high profit margin toys and tshirts. I mean has the "divisive crowd" ever affected Cenas ability to shift merch? quite the opposite, Cena has been the cash cow for years despite being booed out of some arenas, all you have to do is go to a house show (even one he's not on) and see how many kids in Cena shirts are there to make you realise why they pushed him so much and what they are attempting to do with Roman. I don't even think Roman is a bad choice for that role. He's not an amazing wrestler or any thing, but he's young, charismatic, has a good set of genes and the ladies seem to think he's hot. makes you wonder how someone is supposed to outsell roman if all they have is Roman |
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Nov 19, 2015 16:33:14 GMT -5
He has improved a great deal. Go back and watch his old matches his only grapple was a Samoan drop most matches. It was almost entirely running strikes before (and still is the majority.) He has lots more grapples now, and moves in general. SO he can at least hang in a match without repeating moves as often (I am pretty sure he had one match with like 8 Samoan drops). That said, I still don't want him elevated yet, he still needs work. And more so he needs psychology. Commentary tells us how powerful and great he is, and how dominant, but his matches don't show it. He spends most of every match getting the crap kicked out of him (and he is great at taking a beating, selling it, not so much). If they treated him as a comeback kid and not a dominant force, I think I could take to him more. But the story in the ring and the story from the words creates a hell of a lot of cognitive dissonance. Commentary really should be talking about him as a guy you have to hope to catch by surprise and put away quick, because if not, he can take a beating and he's going to outlast you. And that's pretty much the extent of what they should be saying about him. The Jibble and Cole Blowjob Special could make you run for the hills no matter who it was (and I suddenly wonder if Corey Graves treating Eva Marie that way is meant to be a subtle parody of all of that...). |
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Post by sonofblaine on Nov 19, 2015 19:05:12 GMT -5
Roman NEEDS a mouthpiece, especieally if he turns heel, and the thread title just made me realize who he needs. {Spoiler}  "Double R! Ain't he greeeeat!" |
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Post by madness50 on Nov 20, 2015 2:06:30 GMT -5
Roman NEEDS a mouthpiece, especieally if he turns heel, and the thread title just made me realize who he needs. {Spoiler}{Spoiler} "Double R! Ain't he greeeeat!" I'm all in for a Col. Parker return. That guy was super underrated as a manager. |
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