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Post by StormanReigns on Nov 30, 2015 2:26:38 GMT -5
Vince has been acting like this for years.
It just so happens that a majority of WWE fans at one point became smarks in the last few years. Yeah a few casual markets will cheer for Roman, but most will not cheer him our of principle now
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Post by "Mr Wonderdick" Dick Dastardly on Nov 30, 2015 2:33:31 GMT -5
He sounds like a spoiled little baby. How can Triple H willingly stand to be around someone so airheaded? *remembers his wife's an airhead as well* Oh wait... Hunter was the beneficiary of one of those pushes, starting his win with a winning streak, a slight lull while he put people over at the same level as he is, then a push to the upper midcard/main event level which saw him given Curt Hennig, Shawn Michaels, Rick Rude, the New Age Outlaws then Mick Foley selling like a beast for him to get him to the main event level. He was relentlessly pushed as the face of the company despite the fact business was tanking with him at the helm and has pushed for guys like Sheamus and Reigns to be pushed into that spot when they're not ready or wanted... He and Vince deserve oneanother.  |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2015 4:17:58 GMT -5
Vince has been acting like this for years. It just so happens that a majority of WWE fans at one point became smarks in the last few years. Yeah a few casual markets will cheer for Roman, but most will not cheer him our of principle now I think people really understate how over Roman is at the moment. Yes, he still has a decent bit of boos, and yes, the crowd's probably about to go back to booing him on a more wide scale what with how shitty the writing for him is and how they have learned seemingly nothing from the backlash he got earlier this year, but he's cheered more often than he's booed at the moment and typically gets the loudest pops on the roster. |
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kidglov3s
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Wants her Shot
Who is Tiger Maskooo?
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Post by kidglov3s on Nov 30, 2015 4:20:51 GMT -5
Vince has been acting like this for years. It just so happens that a majority of WWE fans at one point became smarks in the last few years. Yeah a few casual markets will cheer for Roman, but most will not cheer him our of principle now I think people really understate how over Roman is at the moment. Yes, he still has a decent bit of boos, and yes, the crowd's probably about to go back to booing him on a more wide scale what with how shitty the writing for him is and how they have learned seemingly nothing from the backlash he got earlier this year, but he's cheered more often than he's booed at the moment and typically gets the loudest pops on the roster. This reads as an argument for Roman Reigns eternal friend-of-Ambrose-in-the-upper-midcard. That's really the only spot that crowds will embrace him in without some major changes. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2015 4:22:22 GMT -5
I think people really understate how over Roman is at the moment. Yes, he still has a decent bit of boos, and yes, the crowd's probably about to go back to booing him on a more wide scale what with how shitty the writing for him is and how they have learned seemingly nothing from the backlash he got earlier this year, but he's cheered more often than he's booed at the moment and typically gets the loudest pops on the roster. This reads as an argument for Roman Reigns eternal friend-of-Ambrose-in-the-upper-midcard. That's really the only spot that crowds will embrace him in without some major changes. I'm more on the "needs some major changes" side of the argument but yeah, as he is, he's over, but he's not likely going to stay that way at the rate they're going. I just think people do too much in the way of projecting their own dislike of Reigns onto his reactions. |
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Post by The Heartbreak TWERK on Nov 30, 2015 4:32:27 GMT -5
WWE will never get better without removing Vince from creative decision making.
The man was a genius once, now he's a stubborn piece of garbage.
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Post by Hit Girl on Nov 30, 2015 5:50:27 GMT -5
I like it when Vince's ideas fail, because they are always ideas that every other person with a brain knows will fail. They can explain why they will fail. He doesn't care. He knows best. He'll be warned time and again that they will fail. He doesn't care. He knows he's right. They will fail right before his eyes. He won't understand. Afterwards, when he realises they've failed, he'll blame others for not warning him.
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Post by Ringmaster on Nov 30, 2015 7:30:21 GMT -5
What's worse is that he was pointing at Elijah Burke. And he meant The Boogeyman. But he has Shelton Benjamin's face in his mind. |
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Nov 30, 2015 8:44:55 GMT -5
If Vince had a little more faith in Heyman, Lashley would have become a star for them. The problem is that Vince wanted him to be the Rock while Lashley is better as a Lesnar type, someone who's needs a hype man but will get a good response as he wrecks people, telling the story in the ring.
Sadly Vince anted to have his cake and eat it with ECW, he wanted to belittle Shane and prove that the WWE way is the only right way to do anything while creating the next Rock in the process when it doesn't work like that, his vision didn't create the first Rock, it created the first Rocky Miavia and other people (Russo, Patterson, Rock) saved them from joining Brakkus on the scrapheap.
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Post by Hit Girl on Nov 30, 2015 9:23:58 GMT -5
An obsession with creating the next (previous star) is one of Vince's main problems. He tries to make guys into something they aren't, rather than pushing them on their own merits and personas.
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Post by HMARK Center on Nov 30, 2015 9:34:14 GMT -5
If Vince had a little more faith in Heyman, Lashley would have become a star for them. The problem is that Vince wanted him to be the Rock while Lashley is better as a Lesnar type, someone who's needs a hype man but will get a good response as he wrecks people, telling the story in the ring. Sadly Vince anted to have his cake and eat it with ECW, he wanted to belittle Shane and prove that the WWE way is the only right way to do anything while creating the next Rock in the process when it doesn't work like that, his vision didn't create the first Rock, it created the first Rocky Miavia and other people (Russo, Patterson, Rock) saved them from joining Brakkus on the scrapheap. It's odd how that was one of the few things over the past couple of years that TNA did a markedly better job at than WWE: handling Bobby Lashley and turning him into an asset. Back in 2009-2010 or whenever, they turned Lashley heel and had his wife act as his hype man while he stood there smirking; it worked pretty well. A few years later they gave him a world title push and made MVP his hype man: it worked pretty well. Vince is too stuck in thinking that he needs "the next Hogan/Austin/Rock" etc. that he can't just bring himself to reformat his show around the strengths of the person he wants to be the top star. It's a weird thing, considering he's done it a couple of times already: Hogan was a pumped up superhero in the 1980s, so the WWF became a colorful, superhero-esque world for Hogan to exist and work within. He tried to pass the mantle on to Lex Luger, but "all American superhero" was never going to be a good gimmick for Lex, so it failed. He then tried with Bret Hart and Shawn Michaels (with Diesel mixed in, of course), but rather than changing the format of the show around to highlight the strengths of his best wrestlers and best draws, he kept the colorful gimmick cavalcade, which was rapidly running out of good or amusing ideas once we starting hitting the TL Hopper phase (hell, it was getting old even before that). Not surprisingly, the New Generation era never took off, and I think one could argue it was largely because Vince and company were still acting like it the Hulkamania era in terms of presentation, booking, writing, etc. Finally, once it was time to push Austin to the moon, it took awhile but they finally did it: Austin was brash, loud, angry, violent, and everything emblematic of late-90s "XTREEEEEME" pop culture, so they completely reformatted their shows to suit his style. It worked. It took somebody kicking Vince's ass to think these things through, but he pulled the trigger, changed his style, and reaped the benefits. They made a half-hearted attempt at that with Cena, but let's face facts: it's 2015, and WWE largely feels the same as it did in 2002, just with less swearing and no bikini contests. If you want Cena to be your top dog, then change the show to suit him. You want Reigns to be on top? Change the show to work for him. I don't care who your top guy is, you need to commit to making them the top guy and promoting your show around them; that's the freaking job of a promoter. |
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Post by Magic knows Black Lives Matter on Nov 30, 2015 9:38:34 GMT -5
What's funny is, for as much as he loved Lashley, TNA ended up using him 100000x better than WWE ever did. And how many people can you honestly say that about?
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mizerable
Fry's dog Seymour
You're the lowest on the totem pole here, Alva. The lowest.
Posts: 23,475
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Post by mizerable on Nov 30, 2015 10:02:16 GMT -5
I actually disagree with the idea that removing Vince is going to improve things. Since there is no real equal pro wrestling division, the hardcore fans aren't going anywhere.
The talent is going to jump to WWE because it's a better payday and essentially the big time. The only way you're going to counter that is by having a Ted Turner playmaker along with the right set of minds for booking.
If TNA continued it's 2006 stride, maybe they would be better off now and they would've continued to build up that fanbase. Perhaps not an equal to WWE, but enough of a threat that the booking decisions are a little better written.
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Post by Andy Martin on Nov 30, 2015 10:49:53 GMT -5
WWE will never get better without removing Vince from creative decision making. The man was a genius once, now he's a stubborn piece of garbage. It won't get better when he's gone, either. |
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Post by Hit Girl on Nov 30, 2015 10:59:52 GMT -5
He's always had shitty ideas. He simply had the benefit of people correcting them. The "Ringmaster" was his bright idea. Then came Chilly McFreeze and the Ice Dagger. It was going nowhere until Austin himself crafted a new character with his ex-wife supplying the name. "Mason The Mutilator" would have been the new Mantaur, until Mick Foley used his own ideas to develop Mankind. The fans wanted happy smiley "Rocky Maivia" to die until Jim Ross told him they were shifting gears and having him join the Nation. According to the Rock, all the traits and promo material that made him a star was his own creation, and I believe him. Even HHH started off with a terrible gimmick that was modified into something that worked.
If Vince hadn't admitted defeat and allowed his creations to be changed into something workable, there would have been no Attitude Era.
These days, he's George Lucas making the prequels. No one challenges him. All his shitty ideas are met with yes men.
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Lancers
El Dandy
Oh you
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Post by Lancers on Nov 30, 2015 11:20:10 GMT -5
That story sounds like it was written by someone who's done screenplays for Lifetime flicks.
Now that it's been introduced into my head, I desperately want Lifetime to do an unauthorized movie about the WWE.
Paul Heyman (Played by "Bar Rescue" host Jon Taffer): "Vince! What are you doing to my creation! You're killing it."
Vince McMahon (Played by Rob Lowe): "No! The only thing I'm killing is YOU!"
*Vince smashes his glass cup and takes one of the shards and repeatedly stabs Heyman*
Stephanie McMahon (Played by herself): *walks in room, reading a report* "Dad, the quarter hour numbers for las..........OH MY GOD! DAD! WHAT HAVE YOU DONE TO PAUL!"
Vince: *drinking bourbon straight out of the bottle* "He told me he was better than me at my job. Now go get Hunter. He got a body to dump in the lagoon next to Randy Savage."
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Post by Andy Martin on Nov 30, 2015 12:45:50 GMT -5
That story sounds like it was written by someone who's done screenplays for Lifetime flicks. Now that it's been introduced into my head, I desperately want Lifetime to do an unauthorized movie about the WWE. Paul Heyman (Played by "Bar Rescue" host Jon Taffer): "Vince! What are you doing to my creation! You're killing it." Vince McMahon (Played by Rob Lowe): "No! The only thing I'm killing is YOU!" *Vince smashes his glass cup and takes one of the shards and repeatedly stabs Heyman*Stephanie McMahon (Played by herself): *walks in room, reading a report* "Dad, the quarter hour numbers for las..........OH MY GOD! DAD! WHAT HAVE YOU DONE TO PAUL!" Vince: *drinking bourbon straight out of the bottle* "He told me he was better than me at my job. Now go get Hunter. He got a body to dump in the lagoon next to Randy Savage." Needs more battered wives syndrome. |
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Allie Kitsune
Crow T. Robot
Always Feelin' Foxy.
HaHa U FaLL 4 LaVa TriK
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Nov 30, 2015 13:20:01 GMT -5
This reads as an argument for Roman Reigns eternal friend-of-Ambrose-in-the-upper-midcard. That's really the only spot that crowds will embrace him in without some major changes. I'm more on the "needs some major changes" side of the argument but yeah, as he is, he's over, but he's not likely going to stay that way at the rate they're going. I just think people do too much in the way of projecting their own dislike of Reigns onto his reactions. Maybe. We tend to hear (read) that he gets better reactions at house shows than he does for TV/PPV. I think we're at the point where the smarkier fans aren't going to nearly as many house shows, leaving a lot more families with children who don't care so much about most of the factors that go into why some fans hate Roman. A larger percentage of TV, and ESPECIALLY PPV crowds, though, are made up of people who resent him and his push, and it comes off that way. I personally think he was on his way to being salvaged, until Vince thought it was safe to start hand-scripting long promos (which also indicates that Vince was ramping his "The Next Cena" push back up) for him again. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2015 13:21:07 GMT -5
I'm more on the "needs some major changes" side of the argument but yeah, as he is, he's over, but he's not likely going to stay that way at the rate they're going. I just think people do too much in the way of projecting their own dislike of Reigns onto his reactions. Maybe. We tend to hear (read) that he gets better reactions at house shows than he does for TV/PPV. I think we're at the point where the smarkier fans aren't going to nearly as many house shows, leaving a lot more families with children who don't care so much about most of the factors that go into why some fans hate Roman. A larger percentage of TV, and ESPECIALLY PPV crowds, though, are made up of people who resent him and his push, and it comes off that way. I personally think he was on his way to being salvaged, until Vince thought it was safe to start hand-scripting long promos (which also indicates that Vince was ramping his "The Next Cena" push back up) for him again. Admittedly I'm probably not the best to judge crowd reactions, because due to having an old-ass TV that doesn't have a spot for the red part of the AV cord I don't get sounds from the right. |
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
Better have my money when I come-a collect!
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Post by chazraps on Nov 30, 2015 13:23:58 GMT -5
Is Hardcore History worth reading? I'm curious now if it covers the ECW on SciFi years.
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