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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2015 19:18:26 GMT -5
Maybe Punk was right all along? So I wonder when the locker room backlash will finally happen. Question is, I don't think anyone has the balls to step up to a Lesnar or Taker and say "HEY, stop taking OUR spots on the shows".
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Dec 19, 2015 19:21:11 GMT -5
I don't think the issue is guys having it with Brock or Undertaker themselves, it'd be with bookers. Brock and Undertaker are just getting paid and taking what's offered to them.
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Post by Magic knows Black Lives Matter on Dec 19, 2015 19:23:01 GMT -5
I mean, it's entirely possible that somebody said "give me your spot, dick!" to Brock but it's impossible to know since that person was turned into dust.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2015 19:25:18 GMT -5
Since WWE has gone into part-timers mode the last 4-6 years, the only prominent ones that took up valuable TV time or PPV spots would be:
Undertaker Sting Batista Brock Lesnar Rock Booker T HHH Jericho RVD
I'm pretty sure that's it. So to say WWE has gone over board with part-timers would be an exaggeration.
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Post by ISO Mid Thigh Pull on Dec 19, 2015 19:25:21 GMT -5
I mean, it's entirely possible that somebody said "give your me your spot, dick!" to Brock but it's impossible to know since that person was turned into dust. Some say his name was Frank Mir.
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Post by lildude8218 on Dec 19, 2015 19:25:57 GMT -5
so being/becoming a star is solely due to the fact that they wrestled and/or main evented Wrestlemania?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2015 19:27:05 GMT -5
Thing is all the part timers will retire or quit for good at roughly the same time. Taker has 1 or 2 manias left in him (I've been saying that for years though), Brock will probably retire after this contract is done, Rock and Batista are full time movie stars they simply won't have the time, Sting may be done, the long term futures of Orton and Cena are uncertain with one injured and one looking at options outside of WWE.
So, they had better have some fresh opponents for the ex-Shield boys (they can't wrestle each other for eternity) come WM 34/35 as the well of part timers is likely to be empty.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2015 19:27:14 GMT -5
so being/becoming a star is solely due to the fact that they wrestled and/or main evented Wrestlemania? Well, that was one of Punk's issues with leaving the WWE. No main event at Mania means they don't have as much value to the company.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2015 19:29:41 GMT -5
Thing is all the part timers will retire or quit for good at roughly the same time. Taker has 1 or 2 manias left in him (I've been saying that for years though), Brock will probably retire after this contract is done, Rock and Batista are full time movie stars they simply won't have the time, Sting may be done, the long term futures of Orton and Cena are uncertain with one injured and one looking at options outside of WWE. So, they had better have some fresh opponents for the ex-Shield boys (they can't wrestle each other for eternity) come WM 34/35 as the well of part timers is likely to be empty. Don't worry, a new crop of part timers will emerge. In 5-7 years their names will be: Carlito MVP Mr. Kennedy Shelton Benjamin Bobby Lashley Jeff Hardy Matt Hardy Kurt Angle (YES, the guy is STILL going to try to wrestle in his late 50's)
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Post by Mayonnaise on Dec 19, 2015 19:30:12 GMT -5
Nice of Bryan to realize this and take a break.
Huh? Not part time?
So, how about that sports ball team?
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Post by DZ: WF Legacy on Dec 19, 2015 19:32:01 GMT -5
It is a balancing act, because bringing back big familiar names for special matches is one of the things I LOVE about wrestling. The problem is how it's done, and how often the old acts go over the guys who need to be over and need the victory for credibility they need as they work week-to-week. It's not "good enough" to just be in the ring with a legend. If that were true, Bray Wyatt would've been a main event guy after working with Cena and Undertaker at WM. He's not. All that shows is that they trust you with the match and that you're in a high enough position to be the guy to be beaten.
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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Dec 19, 2015 19:32:24 GMT -5
Since WWE has gone into part-timers mode the last 4-6 years, the only prominent ones that took up valuable TV time or PPV spots would be: Undertaker Sting Batista Brock Lesnar Rock Booker T HHH Jericho RVD I'm pretty sure that's it. So to say WWE has gone over board with part-timers would be an exaggeration. Undertaker, Brock, Sting, and Triple H all took spots in three of the most promoted matches at Wrestlemania 31, and then they had The Rock come out for an unneccesarily long talking segment with Triple H after that to kill time. Lesnar and Rock both held the title since coming back, and they had plans to center Wrestlemania 30 around the glorious return and ascension of the conquering hero Batista. The vast majority of the main roster was relegated at 31 to a giant clusterf*** battle royal solely to get people onto the card, but in positions that didn't really matter much at all. When WWE only really knows how to write two, maybe three storylines at a time that receive any real focus, and those big important spots are being taken by part-timers, it does take opportunities away from people. If the main roster all gets shoved down a few rungs come Wrestlemania time, then you're sending a very clear message about who your stars are.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2015 19:42:02 GMT -5
I mean, it's entirely possible that somebody said "give me your spot, dick!" to Brock but it's impossible to know since that person was turned into dust. Well..... since Brock and Taker love giving each other low blows, there is your criteria. You must low blow one of either Taker or Brock, THEN take their spot.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2015 19:44:37 GMT -5
Since WWE has gone into part-timers mode the last 4-6 years, the only prominent ones that took up valuable TV time or PPV spots would be: Undertaker Sting Batista Brock Lesnar Rock Booker T HHH Jericho RVD I'm pretty sure that's it. So to say WWE has gone over board with part-timers would be an exaggeration. Undertaker, Brock, Sting, and Triple H all took spots in three of the most promoted matches at Wrestlemania 31, and then they had The Rock come out for an unneccesarily long talking segment with Triple H after that to kill time. Lesnar and Rock both held the title since coming back, and they had plans to center Wrestlemania 30 around the glorious return and ascension of the conquering hero Batista. The vast majority of the main roster was relegated at 31 to a giant clusterf*** battle royal solely to get people onto the card, but in positions that didn't really matter much at all. When WWE only really knows how to write two, maybe three storylines at a time that receive any real focus, and those big important spots are being taken by part-timers, it does take opportunities away from people. If the main roster all gets shoved down a few rungs come Wrestlemania time, then you're sending a very clear message about who your stars are. What you said made me think of the grossly unjustified mis-handling of Mizdow. He was over, the crowd wanted that turn. Miz vs. Mizdow was a 1 on 1 Mania made match. Then it got relegated to the Battle Royal. On the PRE SHOW of all places. FFS....
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Post by Gerard Gerard on Dec 19, 2015 19:46:09 GMT -5
It reached its nadir at 29 when, of the 3 marquee match-ups, 4 of the 6 performers were part-time players. They've gotten better with the mixture of old and new faces, but not so much at actually presenting the newbies as on-par with those of yore. Fittingly, the only one, true breakthrough you can point to is Daniel Bryan. Granted, he was then relegated to the midcard the following year, but there's a cavalcade of other factors at play there.
The argument isn't "let the young guys go over" and more to the fact, "how about letting a couple of newcomers a chance to fail". Of what's going to be the 4-5 marquee matches headlining WM32, how about slipping in a couple of blood-feuds between say Ambrose and Owens or New Day and The Lucha Dragons? Just something that elevates perceptions of the next generation as anything other than props that pop the crowd the other 80 percent of the year. Yes, given time-constraints and all, it'll be a slow process, but I think it all begins with allowing people room to fail, or more likely, succeed. Rather than "this is Wrestlemania! People expect stars" and instead, more of a "we have our selection of stars on the card, let's slip the new crowd in for a due platform to create some buzz for us going forward." Just being on the 'Mania card in a prominent role elevates perceptions of performers, without even having to interact with the necessary, but sometimes detrimental part-timers.
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Post by StormanReigns on Dec 19, 2015 19:50:44 GMT -5
Maybe Punk was right all along? So I wonder when the locker room backlash will finally happen. Question is, I don't think anyone has the balls to step up to a Lesnar or Taker and say "HEY, stop taking OUR spots on the shows". The part timers so rarely interact with the regular roster in a meaningful feud. Taker and Lesnar feuding only helps Vince's wallet, and does not help establish other characters. And Cena interacting with them helps no one. He is already the established main guy. The Lesnar/Reigns WM match actually helped Roman A LOT.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2015 19:55:49 GMT -5
And really, of all the part timers only Sting wanted to job to EVERYONE under the sun. I think all the other guys wanted wins of some form. Goes to show Sting is a true player who is willing to use his name to put someone over.
Edit: I know Jericho jobs, but let's be honest, in 2015 he has NO VALUE anymore.
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Post by Oh Cry Me a Screwball on Dec 19, 2015 20:06:34 GMT -5
I mean, it's entirely possible that somebody said "give me your spot, dick!" to Brock but it's impossible to know since that person was turned into dust. And if someone tried saying that to Undertaker, the rest of the locker room would probably line up to have the pleasure of doing that.
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Post by Professor Chaos on Dec 19, 2015 20:57:06 GMT -5
I don't consider Brock a part timer but more of an attraction. If he wrestled every week what would he be doing? Trading wins back and forth every week with The Ryback?
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Post by Juice on Dec 19, 2015 21:00:02 GMT -5
so being/becoming a star is solely due to the fact that they wrestled and/or main evented Wrestlemania? Well, that was one of Punk's issues with leaving the WWE. No main event at Mania means they don't have as much value to the company. He wanted main event pay. Vince told him that he and taker were the main event and he said "then pay me".
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