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Post by walterharrow on Dec 22, 2015 13:48:37 GMT -5
There are a number of people on the roster who I just find really unlikeable (for no particular reason). The Usos, The Bella Twins and Dolph Ziggler are the main ones. Every time they show up on Raw (as faces or heels) I just want to punch them in the face.
Roman Reigns is one of them. I don't hate him as a performer (he has had some pretty good matches) but I just do not find him likeable in any way so im not sure whether I can stand him as the face of the company for a long period of time
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Push R Truth
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Post by Push R Truth on Dec 22, 2015 13:51:09 GMT -5
Who would have thought that only the extreme boring powers of Sheamus could have pushed Roman to the friggin' moon
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Post by Johnny Flamingo on Dec 22, 2015 13:54:13 GMT -5
I don't understand this "it was hard being a Reigns fan so this is a vindication" thing that many people in this topic were stating. Most of us didn't dislike Reigns himself, we just disliked his booking. We knew he had potential, he had a good look, we knew they could book him in a way that highlights his strengths and we knew that if they worked the kinks out he'd be in a great position. Reigns right now is booked far better than he was when the hate reached it's peak a while back, it's not comparable really. He's also improved all over. The "bad Vince promos every night, pushed to the top 'I'm an underdog yall' Samoan Cena" Reigns isn't the same as the "Ambrose best buddy and we're everywhere with it, badass, letting it all hang out I'm a monster" Reigns we see today. I'm happy that the company finally realized that they need to book him similarly to how he was in the Shield. Make him a badass who destroys stuff who just loves hanging with his people and he's good. That's all he needs, you get that and he's fine with his improvement. Now his career will improve. I believe most had this sentiment. But there were some that claimed that -he couldn't wrestle and every good match he had was because someone carried him -The Mania match was going to be an utter disaster because Brock can't carry people -He had never been cheered -He was the worst in-ring wrestler in the company -Multiple people celebrating anytime he got a bad response. not to mention the multiple thread about how bad he was and/or trashing him. Had people even say that if you liked Roman Reigns it meant you didn't like good wrestling. It was pretty brutal for a while, not a fun time if you were actually a Roman fan.
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Dec 22, 2015 14:00:28 GMT -5
I'm happy that WWE gave up on the idea of trying to crown Roman at WrestleMania and just gave him the belt already. I won't be fully behind him until they eventually stop with the "Roman Reigns is the only thing that matters and f*** everyone else" mindset that they seem to operate with. That's really the only thing keeping me from liking him because otherwise he'd be the type of wrestler that I'd like (big, jacked guy with an explosive moveset). But otherwise, good on Roman for improving.
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Post by Johnny Flamingo on Dec 22, 2015 14:16:39 GMT -5
I'm happy that WWE gave up on the idea of trying to crown Roman at WrestleMania and just gave him the belt already. I won't be fully behind him until they eventually stop with the "Roman Reigns is the only thing that matters and f*** everyone else" mindset that they seem to operate with. That's really the only thing keeping me from liking him because otherwise he'd be the type of wrestler that I'd like (big, jacked guy with an explosive moveset). But otherwise, good on Roman for improving. That's been the problem with WWE in general the last few years. They ultra focus on their main storyline while neglecting focus on the bulk of their roster. If they really focused on the mid-card they have more than enough talent to put out the best product WWE has ever had.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2015 14:18:44 GMT -5
I don't understand this "it was hard being a Reigns fan so this is a vindication" thing that many people in this topic were stating. Because many places on the Internet, including this board, were goddamn unreadable. Seriously, there was no discussion going on, no debate, no analysis. Just a big, IWC-wide circlejerk about how "he's not ready" and the same endless complaints about how his moveset/attire/contact lenses were an affront to pro wrestling as a whole, interspersed with memes and catchphrases and parroting shit CM Punk said in a podcast a year ago. It was ****ing bad. So Reigns getting the belt in a good match, in a way that seems to have largely gotten the crowd behind him, is absolutely a good thing. But if it also pisses off some of the people that made pro wrestling boards complete shitholes for the past year, even better.
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Dec 22, 2015 14:31:26 GMT -5
I don't understand this "it was hard being a Reigns fan so this is a vindication" thing that many people in this topic were stating. Because many places on the Internet, including this board, were goddamn unreadable. Seriously, there was no discussion going on, no debate, no analysis. Just a big, IWC-wide circlejerk about how "he's not ready" and the same endless complaints about how his moveset/attire/contact lenses were an affront to pro wrestling as a whole, interspersed with memes and catchphrases and parroting shit CM Punk said in a podcast a year ago. It was ****ing bad. So Reigns getting the belt in a good match, in a way that seems to have largely gotten the crowd behind him, is absolutely a good thing. But if it also pisses off some of the people that made pro wrestling boards complete shitholes for the past year, even better. Thing is that Roman wasn't ready when this whole thing started AND there were better options to go with that WWE just plain ignored. And the reason Make Roman Look Strong became a thing has less to do with CM Punk and more to do with how laughably heavy handed, unsubtle and desperate WWE came off in their attempts to put him over. People didn't hate him just to be "haters", they just felt he didn't have the skills to justify his super push and there were others that they wanted more.
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Post by Hurbster on Dec 22, 2015 14:35:00 GMT -5
I don't understand this "it was hard being a Reigns fan so this is a vindication" thing that many people in this topic were stating. Because many places on the Internet, including this board, were goddamn unreadable. Seriously, there was no discussion going on, no debate, no analysis. Just a big, IWC-wide circlejerk about how "he's not ready" and the same endless complaints about how his moveset/attire/contact lenses were an affront to pro wrestling as a whole, interspersed with memes and catchphrases and parroting shit CM Punk said in a podcast a year ago. It was ****ing bad. So Reigns getting the belt in a good match, in a way that seems to have largely gotten the crowd behind him, is absolutely a good thing. But if it also pisses off some of the people that made pro wrestling boards complete shitholes for the past year, even better. A million times this. I know it drove people away from the board - me included.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2015 14:43:25 GMT -5
Thing is that Roman wasn't ready when this whole thing started AND there were better options to go with that WWE just plain ignored. And the reason Make Roman Look Strong became a thing has less to do with CM Punk and more to do with how laughably heavy handed, unsubtle and desperate WWE came off in their attempts to put him over. People didn't hate him just to be "haters", they just felt he didn't have the skills to justify his super push and there were others that they wanted more. So did being the 500th person to make a "gotta' make Roman look strong, ha ha!" comment actually contribute anything in terms of legitimate discussion? Or being the 5,000th person to talk about how his ring work wasn't up to snuff? Or being one of the goddamn loonies, who took time out of their presumably busy day, to talk about how Roman suddenly wearing blue/gray contact lenses meant that his push was ruined? I don't begrudge people for having opinions that run counter to mine, but don't try to pretend that there was actual discussion going on. It was a circlejerk, and if you weren't one of the guys doing the jerking, then goddamn did it get tiresome to read.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2015 16:35:42 GMT -5
I don't understand this "it was hard being a Reigns fan so this is a vindication" thing that many people in this topic were stating. Most of us didn't dislike Reigns himself, we just disliked his booking. We knew he had potential, he had a good look, we knew they could book him in a way that highlights his strengths and we knew that if they worked the kinks out he'd be in a great position. Reigns right now is booked far better than he was when the hate reached it's peak a while back, it's not comparable really. He's also improved all over. The "bad Vince promos every night, pushed to the top 'I'm an underdog yall' Samoan Cena" Reigns isn't the same as the "Ambrose best buddy and we're everywhere with it, badass, letting it all hang out I'm a monster" Reigns we see today. I'm happy that the company finally realized that they need to book him similarly to how he was in the Shield. Make him a badass who destroys stuff who just loves hanging with his people and he's good. That's all he needs, you get that and he's fine with his improvement. Now his career will improve. I believe most had this sentiment. But there were some that claimed that -he couldn't wrestle and every good match he had was because someone carried him -The Mania match was going to be an utter disaster because Brock can't carry people -He had never been cheered -He was the worst in-ring wrestler in the company -Multiple people celebrating anytime he got a bad response. not to mention the multiple thread about how bad he was and/or trashing him. Had people even say that if you liked Roman Reigns it meant you didn't like good wrestling. It was pretty brutal for a while, not a fun time if you were actually a Roman fan. Reigns wasn't an amazing wrestler then and honestly the reason his matches worked is because he was with great workers. I mean, that's exactly the reason why Reigns was with Cesaro in the WWE Championship tournament on that Raw. Reports said the company put them in a match because Cesaro could carry Reigns to a great match. He's not a bad wrestler but he did need to be carried in these amazing matches. He has to learn from the best to become great. Same thing with Cena. Because of that, his ringwork has majorly improved. Despite that however, some of those comments such as him not being cheered and celebrating isn't against him as a person but his booking. No matter if he was someone else the booking would have been destroyed given the story arc involved. Bryan for example, if he didn't have an underdog story and was fast-tracked to the top in a similar way like Reigns when he first debuted it would have been shat on too because it doesn't make sense. It was brutal but it's not because of Reigns but the booking surrounding him, he was just a conduit really. Reigns fans could be hurt by it but you should be as upset from a storyline perspective as well considering that wasn't going to cut it and it didn't. Because of that booking it took 12 months for the guy to even decently recover. It had to happen.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2015 16:37:22 GMT -5
Because many places on the Internet, including this board, were goddamn unreadable. Seriously, there was no discussion going on, no debate, no analysis. Just a big, IWC-wide circlejerk about how "he's not ready" and the same endless complaints about how his moveset/attire/contact lenses were an affront to pro wrestling as a whole, interspersed with memes and catchphrases and parroting shit CM Punk said in a podcast a year ago. It was ****ing bad. So Reigns getting the belt in a good match, in a way that seems to have largely gotten the crowd behind him, is absolutely a good thing. But if it also pisses off some of the people that made pro wrestling boards complete shitholes for the past year, even better. So did being the 500th person to make a "gotta' make Roman look strong, ha ha!" comment actually contribute anything in terms of legitimate discussion? Or being the 5,000th person to talk about how his ring work wasn't up to snuff? Or being one of the goddamn loonies, who took time out of their presumably busy day, to talk about how Roman suddenly wearing blue/gray contact lenses meant that his push was ruined? I don't begrudge people for having opinions that run counter to mine, but don't try to pretend that there was actual discussion going on. It was a circlejerk, and if you weren't one of the guys doing the jerking, then goddamn did it get tiresome to read. From all the posters who actually posted meaningful threads, comments and quotes in regards to why we didn't like the Reigns mega-push then...f*** that. I, and many others, posted heavily during then and hell most of us loved Reigns when he was part of the Shield so to hear you say this is ridiculous. You're lumping every single person in a box when most of us had reason as to why we disliked it. Not all of us are "LOLZ WE DA IWC AND WE LOVE DEM ONLY" types. I love WWE produced wrestlers if they work well. It just didn't work well, we had our grips and then you also consider those who didn't like Reigns came into the fray as well, as a collective it was negative. The fact you saying there was no discussion, debate and analysis is just your jaded mindset as an upset Reigns fan who was just mad in general that people didn't like what you like so you assumed that everyone, even those who had literal reason, was out to get on him for bad terms. That's not a true statement. If you actually want us to find threads and posts with great debates on why we disliked it go ahead and ask. I can start looking because I know for a fact I've made threads on why I disliked the Reigns push that had heavy debate involved. For example, here's my "does anyone actually feel bad for Reigns" thread created in the very middle of his mega-push that had a lot of amazing responses that wasn't a "circle jerk" as you like to say. This doesn't fit your comment. officialfan.proboards.com/thread/514826/feel-bad-reignsIf anything, your comment towards "vindication" just seems to be you happy that Reigns is getting something in general, because you like him, rather than the fact that the booking has improved as a whole. It's more along the fact that the boards fit what you personally like so that makes you think it's different than before. I don't know about anyone else but this board has been entertaining during Roman's entire mega-push for the past year. It hasn't changed for me. That's what I meant about my "vindication" post because honestly speaking Reigns today is far different than Reigns of the past. You can't be vindicated when they completely rebook the guy and he's improved as a whole. That's like saying you feel vindicated that Undertaker won the WWE Championship when you were a fan of him as Mean Mark Callous when in fact they're two completely dudes. That makes no sense and that shits on all of us who had legit reasons for why we didn't like that. Considering this, I heavily disagree with your post.
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Post by Sicho100 on Dec 22, 2015 16:45:10 GMT -5
Who would have thought that only the extreme boring powers of Sheamus could have pushed Roman to the friggin' moon
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2015 18:48:03 GMT -5
I think you misunderstood me. I didn't say that you or anyone else disliked Reigns for no reason, or for invalid reasons. I said that simply repeating those complaints over and over to each other doesn't constitute a discussion or debate - it's just a relentlessly cynical echo chamber. During the lead-up to Mania there were tons of topics that all fundamentally boiled down to the same basic arguments. The month of March alone, there were 46 topics made about the guy. What on earth could possibly be gained from making the 46th topic about how Reigns isn't connecting with the crowd, should turn heel, should be jobbed out to Daniel Bryan, etc.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2015 19:47:29 GMT -5
I think you misunderstood me. I didn't say that you or anyone else disliked Reigns for no reason, or for invalid reasons. I said that simply repeating those complaints over and over to each other doesn't constitute a discussion or debate - it's just a relentlessly cynical echo chamber. During the lead-up to Mania there were tons of topics that all fundamentally boiled down to the same basic arguments. The month of March alone, there were 46 topics made about the guy. What on earth could possibly be gained from making the 46th topic about how Reigns isn't connecting with the crowd, should turn heel, should be jobbed out to Daniel Bryan, etc. In your second sentence you said "seriously, there was no discussion going on, no debate, no analysis" which is 100% false. There's a difference between "no discussion, no debate, no analysis" compared to "I mostly didn't see that" and also given your comments in this thread, you're saying that repeating the same compliments over and other doesn't constitute a discussion. That's also false. Repeating comments doesn't mean something isn't a discussion. That just means in your eyes it's a far more boring discussion and/or debate and at times people repeat the same comments because the other side doesn't understand them and/or they do it to reinforces the impact of said statement over everything else. If I make a comment that the other side of the debate doesn't agree with, hypothetically, say I take it to an extreme in a comparison that the other side does agree with. I'd then make my original comment again so they can understand what I'm saying. The problem isn't the debates. The problem is many people disagree with said comments so they don't listen to what's stated. Besides that, looking at the word debate and it's definition along with other comments on Reigns, yes they quality as debates regardless how you feel towards them. And as for the amount of topics made on Reigns, he's a hot topic. There were multiple topics on Bryan not being utilized, Triple H/Stephanie being bad to the product (which is made multiple times in the week already), older guard being lazy and holding guys back, we've always seen multiple topics. Reigns was just the hot topic at that time when he was heavily pushed to the forefront. The difference is now when it makes more sense, booking is better and he's improved he gets less topics because there's less issues with it. Either way at the end of the day, even if you say you didn't mean to, you basically shat on everyone who had legit reasons to go against Reigns and his push and now given his position you feel vindicated. That makes no sense given most of those who were against it had legit reasons and considering those reasons, there's no vindication to be granted from it unless you're talking about the "absolute Reigns haters who hate for no reason" and in that case, there were very very few of them on this board. It didn't make any sense and it looks as though you're saying "well Reigns is working now so hahaha I was right guys I feel good, screw your complaining I'm a Reigns fan" which doesn't work out.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2015 21:42:37 GMT -5
In your second sentence you said "seriously, there was no discussion going on, no debate, no analysis" which is 100% false. There's a difference between "no discussion, no debate, no analysis" compared to "I mostly didn't see that" and also given your comments in this thread, you're saying that repeating the same compliments over and other doesn't constitute a discussion. That's also false. Repeating comments doesn't mean something isn't a discussion. That just means in your eyes it's a far more boring discussion and/or debate and at times people repeat the same comments because the other side doesn't understand them and/or they do it to reinforces the impact of said statement over everything else. If I make a comment that the other side of the debate doesn't agree with, hypothetically, say I take it to an extreme in a comparison that the other side does agree with. I'd then make my original comment again so they can understand what I'm saying. The problem isn't the debates. The problem is many people disagree with said comments so they don't listen to what's stated. Besides that, looking at the word debate and it's definition along with other comments on Reigns, yes they quality as debates regardless how you feel towards them. And as for the amount of topics made on Reigns, he's a hot topic. There were multiple topics on Bryan not being utilized, Triple H/Stephanie being bad to the product (which is made multiple times in the week already), older guard being lazy and holding guys back, we've always seen multiple topics. Reigns was just the hot topic at that time when he was heavily pushed to the forefront. The difference is now when it makes more sense, booking is better and he's improved he gets less topics because there's less issues with it. Either way at the end of the day, even if you say you didn't mean to, you basically shat on everyone who had legit reasons to go against Reigns and his push and now given his position you feel vindicated. That makes no sense given most of those who were against it had legit reasons and considering those reasons, there's no vindication to be granted from it unless you're talking about the "absolute Reigns haters who hate for no reason" and in that case, there were very very few of them on this board. It didn't make any sense and it looks as though you're saying "well Reigns is working now so hahaha I was right guys I feel good, screw your complaining I'm a Reigns fan" which doesn't work out. The part of your reply I bolded comes off as splitting hairs. People weren't spouting memes and catchphrases to try to educate the opposing side in their argument, or make their argument more clear, or anything. And the constant repetition of legitimate points came off less like a a legit attempt at debate and yet more hand-wringing about the stubborn stupidity WWE is so often prone to, which to me is only discussion in the basest sense of the word. Regardless, I think you're underselling the degree of how toxic and stifling the environment of the board was. I mean within this thread you've had other posters comment on that exact topic. It's not even about being a Reigns fan or non-fan; I just get sick of seeing the same shit over and over again, and I think others do too.
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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Dec 22, 2015 22:57:26 GMT -5
Regardless, I think you're underselling the degree of how toxic and stifling the environment of the board was. I mean within this thread you've had other posters comment on that exact topic. It's not even about being a Reigns fan or non-fan; I just get sick of seeing the same shit over and over again, and I think others do too. I think this is a strange and overwrought exaggeration. As someone who didn't like Reigns, I perceived lots of people talking about how everyone who dislikes Reigns is a hipster who just pretends to dislike him because it somehow makes them cool. You notice what bugs you, but that doesn't mean it's actually everywhere. Anyway, I'm happy for him as a person, because I worry about his career if he's seen as a disappointment as The Guy. But christ, I find Explosive wrestlers dull as all hell.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2015 23:02:43 GMT -5
In your second sentence you said "seriously, there was no discussion going on, no debate, no analysis" which is 100% false. There's a difference between "no discussion, no debate, no analysis" compared to "I mostly didn't see that" and also given your comments in this thread, you're saying that repeating the same compliments over and other doesn't constitute a discussion. That's also false. Repeating comments doesn't mean something isn't a discussion. That just means in your eyes it's a far more boring discussion and/or debate and at times people repeat the same comments because the other side doesn't understand them and/or they do it to reinforces the impact of said statement over everything else. If I make a comment that the other side of the debate doesn't agree with, hypothetically, say I take it to an extreme in a comparison that the other side does agree with. I'd then make my original comment again so they can understand what I'm saying. The problem isn't the debates. The problem is many people disagree with said comments so they don't listen to what's stated. Besides that, looking at the word debate and it's definition along with other comments on Reigns, yes they quality as debates regardless how you feel towards them. And as for the amount of topics made on Reigns, he's a hot topic. There were multiple topics on Bryan not being utilized, Triple H/Stephanie being bad to the product (which is made multiple times in the week already), older guard being lazy and holding guys back, we've always seen multiple topics. Reigns was just the hot topic at that time when he was heavily pushed to the forefront. The difference is now when it makes more sense, booking is better and he's improved he gets less topics because there's less issues with it. Either way at the end of the day, even if you say you didn't mean to, you basically shat on everyone who had legit reasons to go against Reigns and his push and now given his position you feel vindicated. That makes no sense given most of those who were against it had legit reasons and considering those reasons, there's no vindication to be granted from it unless you're talking about the "absolute Reigns haters who hate for no reason" and in that case, there were very very few of them on this board. It didn't make any sense and it looks as though you're saying "well Reigns is working now so hahaha I was right guys I feel good, screw your complaining I'm a Reigns fan" which doesn't work out. The part of your reply I bolded comes off as splitting hairs. People weren't spouting memes and catchphrases to try to educate the opposing side in their argument, or make their argument more clear, or anything. And the constant repetition of legitimate points came off less like a a legit attempt at debate and yet more hand-wringing about the stubborn stupidity WWE is so often prone to, which to me is only discussion in the basest sense of the word. Regardless, I think you're underselling the degree of how toxic and stifling the environment of the board was. I mean within this thread you've had other posters comment on that exact topic. It's not even about being a Reigns fan or non-fan; I just get sick of seeing the same shit over and over again, and I think others do too. I'm not going to spend anymore time on what makes something "a debate or not" so I'll just get back to my original point. Your posts basically shat on those who had reason to dislike Reigns, the difference is those reasons were corrected. There were actual discussions going on (I've posted a topic showing it) and people made some thoughtout posts. Either way, it wasn't everyone as a whole, it was a group of those who were away from the pack who were very loud. Those are accountable. Either way, I've seen how the board was during the Christian/Orton moment, I was here for the Punk stuff, I was here for the Bryan stuff, it goes in cycles. Reigns wasn't anything different than what we've seen in the past so if the Reigns situation on the board was at a "degree of toxicity that's stifling the environment on the board" then every single one of those other situations was too, it just wasn't new. Regardless, people were posting just as much as before. Of course other posters agree but there have been other posters who have agreed with my comments as well, you can literally see many others in the thread I've linked, some in this thread, say similar things. Reigns isn't being excluded here, the "Reigns hate" is the same as all the other hate we've seen these past few years which still makes for a board that people still posted on. That's it at the end of the day. You might have felt it was unreadable but that's not the majority of FAN. We've had discussions, we kept reading, we kept posting. That just doesn't apply to everyone.
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Post by edgestar on Dec 22, 2015 23:06:53 GMT -5
I'm happy for him. I enjoy his matches, and as long as he doesn't wrestle Big Show again for either a very long time or forever, I should be set. I loved his match with Big Show, when I went in February. *cries* Roman doesn't bother me, though. I like him a lot.
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Post by Mozenrath on Dec 22, 2015 23:08:39 GMT -5
I'm happy for him. I enjoy his matches, and as long as he doesn't wrestle Big Show again for either a very long time or forever, I should be set. I loved his match with Big Show, when I went in February. *cries* Roman doesn't bother me, though. I like him a lot. I don't have an issue with Big Show like some do, they just have him wrestle the same dudes too often. Roman and Ryback wrestled him for what felt like a decade, they ought to change it up a bit more.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2015 23:30:42 GMT -5
The part of your reply I bolded comes off as splitting hairs. People weren't spouting memes and catchphrases to try to educate the opposing side in their argument, or make their argument more clear, or anything. And the constant repetition of legitimate points came off less like a a legit attempt at debate and yet more hand-wringing about the stubborn stupidity WWE is so often prone to, which to me is only discussion in the basest sense of the word. Regardless, I think you're underselling the degree of how toxic and stifling the environment of the board was. I mean within this thread you've had other posters comment on that exact topic. It's not even about being a Reigns fan or non-fan; I just get sick of seeing the same shit over and over again, and I think others do too. I'm not going to spend anymore time on what makes something "a debate or not" so I'll just get back to my original point. Your posts basically shat on those who had reason to dislike Reigns, the difference is those reasons were corrected. There were actual discussions going on (I've posted a topic showing it) and people made some thoughtout posts. Either way, it wasn't everyone as a whole, it was a group of those who were away from the pack who were very loud. Those are accountable. Either way, I've seen how the board was during the Christian/Orton moment, I was here for the Punk stuff, I was here for the Bryan stuff, it goes in cycles. Reigns wasn't anything different than what we've seen in the past so if the Reigns situation on the board was at a "degree of toxicity that's stifling the environment on the board" then every single one of those other situations was too, it just wasn't new. Regardless, people were posting just as much as before. Of course other posters agree but there have been other posters who have agreed with my comments as well, you can literally see many others in the thread I've linked, some in this thread, say similar things. Reigns isn't being excluded here, the "Reigns hate" is the same as all the other hate we've seen these past few years which still makes for a board that people still posted on. That's it at the end of the day. You might have felt it was unreadable but that's not the majority of FAN. We've had discussions, we kept reading, we kept posting. That just doesn't apply to everyone. Can't comment on any of those situations, as I only joined in 2013, but I'll take your word for it. But yeah, to me, endless repetitive negativity is really draining and makes this board a complete slog sometimes, regardless of how valid the points themselves may be. There were and are people who undoubtedly make good points, and despite my frustration with how negative the environment gets, my issue isn't really with them. But the people who just show up to parrot memes, or hyper-analyze the dude to a ridiculous degree (seriously, contact lenses - name another wrestler other than Rey Mysterio where this was ever even brought up) - if I'm shitting on anyone, it's them. Whether that's deserved or not is obviously open to debate.
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