BRV
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Wants him some Taco Flavored Kisses.
Posts: 16,894
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Post by BRV on Feb 14, 2016 11:27:13 GMT -5
Seems odd to bring it up twenty years later unless the woman was pressing charges or something of that nature, which she's clearly not. Not saying Peyton should've 'gotten away' with it or anything either mind ya. I'll tread lightly here, but given Shaun King's history, it's pretty apparent why he chose to write this story when he did. Not to say that changes the facts of the case or how well-researched and written it was, but it's pretty obvious that the story was heavily motivated by racial influences in the sports world from the last week.
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ICBM
King Koopa
Didn't know we did status updates here now
Posts: 12,288
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Post by ICBM on Feb 14, 2016 11:48:15 GMT -5
So based on all the posts I'm guessing he has been convicted and all of this proven to be 100% accurate. But just to be sure, I'm going back to page one of the thread, click ing the link, then after I read that I'll prolly look for some info online to corroborate it. If it proves out I'll come back with my pitch fork and join the fun. But first I'm going to be fair to the accused and assume innocence.
One shot over the bow though, if this was Brady they'd have formed a mob, stormed his house and hung him already. I am no patriots fan but the way people treat anyone on that team is laughably bias almost always
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Post by Seth Drakin of Monster Crap on Feb 14, 2016 12:01:42 GMT -5
So based on all the posts I'm guessing he has been convicted and all of this proven to be 100% accurate. But just to be sure, I'm going back to page one of the thread, click ing the link, then after I read that I'll prolly look for some info online to corroborate it. If it proves out I'll come back with my pitch fork and join the fun. But first I'm going to be fair to the accused and assume innocence. One shot over the bow though, if this was Brady they'd have formed a mob, stormed his house and hung him already. I am no patriots fan but the way people treat anyone on that team is laughably bias almost always Two shots actually, with that Washington Post story as well.
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Post by Seth Drakin of Monster Crap on Feb 14, 2016 12:03:15 GMT -5
Seems odd to bring it up twenty years later unless the woman was pressing charges or something of that nature, which she's clearly not. Not saying Peyton should've 'gotten away' with it or anything either mind ya. I'll tread lightly here, but given Shaun King's history, it's pretty apparent why he chose to write this story when he did. Not to say that changes the facts of the case or how well-researched and written it was, but it's pretty obvious that the story was heavily motivated by racial influences in the sports world from the last week. Yeah, the source is dubious at best. Personally hate the guy myself. That's kind of why I hope this isn't true...besides the ramifications of complete hypocrisy if true.
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Mochi Lone Wolf
Fry's dog Seymour
Development through Destruction.
Posts: 24,036
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Post by Mochi Lone Wolf on Feb 14, 2016 12:06:04 GMT -5
I hope the college angle isn't lost in all of this. The reason things like this happen the way they do is because colleges keep telling athletes "No worries. We'll take care of it."
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ICBM
King Koopa
Didn't know we did status updates here now
Posts: 12,288
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Post by ICBM on Feb 14, 2016 12:14:15 GMT -5
Ok, read King's piece a a couple others. Here are my bullet points:
No law enforcement investigation has ever and apparently will ever occur with this--that means it is now and shall always be she said/he said/no proof one way or the other
No evidence or judgment has ever corroborated either Dr. Whited's sexual assault charge or Manning's purported slander--out of court settlement is not and NEVER should be taken as an admission of guilt
The article linked on page one is slanted one direction. This is the only article I found slanted totally toward one party or the other
Could Manning have at age 22, exposed himself during a medical exam? Yes. Student athletes are noted for sophomoric humor and inappropriate behaviors often of a sexual nature
Could the Dr. Be lying? I've been in law enforcement for most of my adult life, anyone can and will lie to you. But why would she lie? Liars usually have a reason to lie unless they are a pathological type and are nearly incapable of telling the truth. I cannot and won't speculate on the Dr.'s mental health but it would seem she is a normal human being who is driven to succeed in a tough profession for female medical professionals or care givers
Bottom line assessment: still not enough to form a judgement one way or the other. There is an appearance of motivation to hide something like this on the Manning side, but not an apparent reason to fabricate on the Dr.'s side. That does not prove a thing it merely gives reason for closer scrutiny but the burden of proof is not satisfied either way. This one will fall to the mercy of the court of public opinion and unfortunately for any party involved that means opinion becomes fact in the minds of the viewer, right or wrong.
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BRV
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Wants him some Taco Flavored Kisses.
Posts: 16,894
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Post by BRV on Feb 14, 2016 12:16:16 GMT -5
I'll tread lightly here, but given Shaun King's history, it's pretty apparent why he chose to write this story when he did. Not to say that changes the facts of the case or how well-researched and written it was, but it's pretty obvious that the story was heavily motivated by racial influences in the sports world from the last week. Yeah, the source is dubious at best. Personally hate the guy myself. That's kind of why I hope this isn't true...besides the ramifications of complete hypocrisy if true. I'm not questioning the source, because the source is more than 70 pages of court documents. That's not in question. What I found curious is why a writer with little to no prior interest in professional football decided that this week of all weeks was the time to drop this bombshell of a story. And if you read between the lines, it's pretty apparent that the story was motivated by discussions involving race in professional sports during the past week. Again, that doesn't call into question the veracity of the court documents, it just raises an eyebrow about the writer's motivations.
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Post by Seth Drakin of Monster Crap on Feb 14, 2016 12:54:57 GMT -5
I had a few giggles thinking in my head of Peyton saying "Aw shucks, I might have sexually assaulted you? Well, guess I gotta ruin your career now?"
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Post by Mayonnaise on Feb 14, 2016 12:58:46 GMT -5
Yeah, the source is dubious at best. Personally hate the guy myself. That's kind of why I hope this isn't true...besides the ramifications of complete hypocrisy if true. I'm not questioning the source, because the source is more than 70 pages of court documents. That's not in question. What I found curious is why a writer with little to no prior interest in professional football decided that this week of all weeks was the time to drop this bombshell of a story. And if you read between the lines, it's pretty apparent that the story was motivated by discussions involving race in professional sports during the past week. Again, that doesn't call into question the veracity of the court documents, it just raises an eyebrow about the writer's motivations. You don't even have to read between the lines, the first few paragraphs literally say it.
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Renslayer
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
every time i come around your city...
Posts: 16,540
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Post by Renslayer on Feb 14, 2016 13:00:48 GMT -5
Yeah, the source is dubious at best. Personally hate the guy myself. That's kind of why I hope this isn't true...besides the ramifications of complete hypocrisy if true. I'm not questioning the source, because the source is more than 70 pages of court documents. That's not in question. What I found curious is why a writer with little to no prior interest in professional football decided that this week of all weeks was the time to drop this bombshell of a story. And if you read between the lines, it's pretty apparent that the story was motivated by discussions involving race in professional sports during the past week. Again, that doesn't call into question the veracity of the court documents, it just raises an eyebrow about the writer's motivations. A quick #wellactually on this: The Daily Beast reported on most of this in a better, less polarizing (best way I can put it) write up on it two weeks ago. To the other point because it fascinates me: I find the frame of Peyton vs Cam on this useful because Cam hasn't done anything (he got punished for the laptop thing & I hear everyone pine for punishments when people break the rules, so they should be good) on the scale of Manning allegedly assaulting someone and then going on to making her life a living hell. I think the discussion of how we discuss race, perceptions of "misdeeds" done by athletes, media coverage, etc is valuable, and the more we're honest about the discrepancies in coverage, the better. King is messy as f*** for a whole list of reasons, but the story and discussion are more important than him. Also, I really hope we have a wide ranging discussion on what colleges (and the sports teams) aren't doing as it relates to reporting assaults. Between this story, the other one involving Butch Jones and the current UT staff, and about a dozen other colleges, shit is out of control.
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Post by Seth Drakin of Monster Crap on Feb 14, 2016 13:10:21 GMT -5
Ok, read King's piece a a couple others. Here are my bullet points: No law enforcement investigation has ever and apparently will ever occur with this--that means it is now and shall always be she said/he said/no proof one way or the other No evidence or judgment has ever corroborated either Dr. Whited's sexual assault charge or Manning's purported slander--out of court settlement is not and NEVER should be taken as an admission of guilt The article linked on page one is slanted one direction. This is the only article I found slanted totally toward one party or the other Could Manning have at age 22, exposed himself during a medical exam? Yes. Student athletes are noted for sophomoric humor and inappropriate behaviors often of a sexual nature Could the Dr. Be lying? I've been in law enforcement for most of my adult life, anyone can and will lie to you. But why would she lie? Liars usually have a reason to lie unless they are a pathological type and are nearly incapable of telling the truth. I cannot and won't speculate on the Dr.'s mental health but it would seem she is a normal human being who is driven to succeed in a tough profession for female medical professionals or care givers Bottom line assessment: still not enough to form a judgement one way or the other. There is an appearance of motivation to hide something like this on the Manning side, but not an apparent reason to fabricate on the Dr.'s side. That does not prove a thing it merely gives reason for closer scrutiny but the burden of proof is not satisfied either way. This one will fall to the mercy of the court of public opinion and unfortunately for any party involved that means opinion becomes fact in the minds of the viewer, right or wrong. I think the scrutiny is more "We need to cover this whole thing up because the Manning brand is more important than the truth and justice". BTW...the story is up on their website....kinda. espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/14776509/lawsuit-alleges-peyton-manning-tennessee-athletes-created-hostile-sexual-environment
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Feb 14, 2016 13:53:07 GMT -5
I don't know that I'd call it 'assault', but it was definitely harassment that nothing was ever done about. Seems odd to bring it up twenty years later unless the woman was pressing charges or something of that nature, which she's clearly not. Not saying Peyton should've 'gotten away' with it or anything either mind ya. If someone put their dick into your mother, daughter, sister, etc face unwantedly while they were doing their job, what would you call that? Again, I'd call it harassment, not necessarily assault. It's just a semantics thing I'm arguing here, not that it's terrible. For me, assault is more akin to rape etc. As was pointed out, from a legal standpoint, there's probably NOT a difference. I'm in no way saying what Peyton did wasn't horrible.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Feb 14, 2016 13:54:49 GMT -5
As far as the veracity or not, I remember reading this story back in 98. Something at least happened enough to have been reported back then.
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Post by Red Impact on Feb 14, 2016 14:04:53 GMT -5
If someone put their dick into your mother, daughter, sister, etc face unwantedly while they were doing their job, what would you call that? Again, I'd call it harassment, not necessarily assault. It's just a semantics thing I'm arguing here, not that it's terrible. For me, assault is more akin to rape etc. As was pointed out, from a legal standpoint, there's probably NOT a difference. I'm in no way saying what Peyton did wasn't horrible. Typically, IIRC, it becomes assault when contact is made. Harassment would be everything else, the commentrs about her sexuality, saying she just has to learn to deal with it, etc. But if someone pushes their genitalia onto you wihtout your consent, it becomes assault, not harassment.
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Post by The Last Hero on Feb 14, 2016 14:07:46 GMT -5
There is so much to be made about this story, so many complications many people here could probably write a pretty lengthy essay about the topic. I just hate the fact my first honest instinct is to be annoyed at Shaun King doing this IMO only because of how much controversy was whipped up about Cam Newton over the last few weeks about his celebrations and media coverage. I do seriously think that at the end of all this there really was more outrage about the "outrage" in regards to Cam Newton. In regards to what happened with Peyton, I think it has more to do with the cult of college sports or whatever you want to call it that we have in this country than with race.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Feb 14, 2016 14:09:12 GMT -5
Again, I'd call it harassment, not necessarily assault. It's just a semantics thing I'm arguing here, not that it's terrible. For me, assault is more akin to rape etc. As was pointed out, from a legal standpoint, there's probably NOT a difference. I'm in no way saying what Peyton did wasn't horrible. Typically, IIRC, it becomes assault when contact is made. Harassment would be everything else, the commentrs about her sexuality, saying she just has to learn to deal with it, etc. But if someone pushes their genitalia onto you wihtout your consent, it becomes assault, not harassment. And that's fair. I hadn't really considered where the legal line was.
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Post by Red Impact on Feb 14, 2016 14:15:46 GMT -5
Ok, read King's piece a a couple others. Here are my bullet points: No law enforcement investigation has ever and apparently will ever occur with this--that means it is now and shall always be she said/he said/no proof one way or the other No evidence or judgment has ever corroborated either Dr. Whited's sexual assault charge or Manning's purported slander--out of court settlement is not and NEVER should be taken as an admission of guilt The article linked on page one is slanted one direction. This is the only article I found slanted totally toward one party or the other Could Manning have at age 22, exposed himself during a medical exam? Yes. Student athletes are noted for sophomoric humor and inappropriate behaviors often of a sexual nature Could the Dr. Be lying? I've been in law enforcement for most of my adult life, anyone can and will lie to you. But why would she lie? Liars usually have a reason to lie unless they are a pathological type and are nearly incapable of telling the truth. I cannot and won't speculate on the Dr.'s mental health but it would seem she is a normal human being who is driven to succeed in a tough profession for female medical professionals or care givers Bottom line assessment: still not enough to form a judgement one way or the other. There is an appearance of motivation to hide something like this on the Manning side, but not an apparent reason to fabricate on the Dr.'s side. That does not prove a thing it merely gives reason for closer scrutiny but the burden of proof is not satisfied either way. This one will fall to the mercy of the court of public opinion and unfortunately for any party involved that means opinion becomes fact in the minds of the viewer, right or wrong. While we don't have video evidence of what happened, the circumstantial evidence in theses stories and court documents is so heavily weighted to one side that's it seems a touch... artless to give Manning the benefit of the doubt. That doesn't mean he could be found criminally liable, but the other players comments on the attempted cover up seem pretty damning, and we know from other cases (Hey, Paterno!) how police departments on major college campuses often treat football players.
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Mochi Lone Wolf
Fry's dog Seymour
Development through Destruction.
Posts: 24,036
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Post by Mochi Lone Wolf on Feb 14, 2016 15:00:42 GMT -5
Personally, I'd prefer to not go the ad hominem route on King. This discussion is much bigger than him.
I'm just in shock at just how shady college sports are. How many of these instances do we NOT know about?
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BRV
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Wants him some Taco Flavored Kisses.
Posts: 16,894
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Post by BRV on Feb 14, 2016 15:59:10 GMT -5
Indicting all of college athletics because Peyton Manning allegedly sexually assaulted a trainer isn't fair. Sure, we've seen some horrible things from the Penn State scandal to Jameis Winston and the wide-reaching cover-up at Florida State, but that doesn't mean that college sports on the whole are this skeevy cesspool. Yes, there are absolutely rotten apples in the bunch but that doesn't spoil the whole bushel.
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Post by Red Impact on Feb 14, 2016 16:25:05 GMT -5
Indicting all of college athletics because Peyton Manning allegedly sexually assaulted a trainer isn't fair. Sure, we've seen some horrible things from the Penn State scandal to Jameis Winston and the wide-reaching cover-up at Florida State, but that doesn't mean that college sports on the whole are this skeevy cesspool. Yes, there are absolutely rotten apples in the bunch but that doesn't spoil the whole bushel. I'm not indicting them because he allegedly sexually assaulted a trainer and the university allegedly tried to go so far as blaming black teammates for it, I'm indicting them because it's not nearly as uncommon as people want to think for schools and communities to protect athletes. College sports are a lot skeevier than most people want to admit. There's millions of dollars in it, the incentives for success are far too tempting, and for every one that you hear about, there are many, many that you don't. Now, is it every single college? Of course not. Are they all on the scale of Baylor or Penn State or South Bend? Of course not, most are on much smaller scales. But college athletic departments are about as clean as the average college dorm room.
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