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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2017 17:31:22 GMT -5
Sonic Forces suffers worst from telling not showing, and wanting to have its cake and eat it to. Its this dark story that's told to us through text on the screen half the time, has gritty plotlines of Sonic being tortured with no discernible effect on him, and throws around all these quotes about war and characters losing hope, but with little change in tone or even broad demonstrative character motivations rooted in that element. Hell if anything the Avatar is the least fanfic esque element in it, because at least that character has a clear story with some kind of backstory told, an arc of going from unproven civilian rookie to valuable resistance member, and eventual climax in helping to defeat the character (Infinite) that they were victimized by. Its the canon characters like Modern Sonic, Tails, and the plot useless Classic Sonic that the narrative does no favors for. I actually forgot about that. They talk about how Soinc getting tortured by Eggman for a year then the next time we see Sonic, he cracking joke like nothing happen. It offical, Sonic is the John Cena of Video Game.
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Post by BorneAgain on Nov 13, 2017 17:41:23 GMT -5
Sonic Forces suffers worst from telling not showing, and wanting to have its cake and eat it to. Its this dark story that's told to us through text on the screen half the time, has gritty plotlines of Sonic being tortured with no discernible effect on him, and throws around all these quotes about war and characters losing hope, but with little change in tone or even broad demonstrative character motivations rooted in that element. Hell if anything the Avatar is the least fanfic esque element in it, because at least that character has a clear story with some kind of backstory told, an arc of going from unproven civilian rookie to valuable resistance member, and eventual climax in helping to defeat the character (Infinite) that they were victimized by. Its the canon characters like Modern Sonic, Tails, and the plot useless Classic Sonic that the narrative does no favors for. I actually forgot about that. They talk about how Soinc getting tortured by Eggman for a year then the next time we see Sonic, he cracking joke like nothing happen. It offical, Sonic is the John Cena of Video Game. To demonstrate how dubious this is, let's compare it to Sonic Boom. Its an animated program made in conjunction with a terrible video game, entirely comedic, and a lot of its appeal lies in mocking the franchise, itself, and the fanbase. But even that show had an episode (I Can Sea Sonic's Fear From Here) about Sonic's problems stemming from his fear of water, with Eggman successfully exploiting it in his scheme. Meaning in terms of Sonic media where the antagonist emotionally affects the title character, Forces has been outdone by the show that had an episode with a mind controlling Justin Beaver. Let that sink in.
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Nov 13, 2017 21:43:14 GMT -5
I have to wonder if one of two things happened: -People writing for the game not communicating with each other enough -If they planned to have Sonic and others more haggard/upset/etc, and dialed it back, out of ESRB worries, not wanting to upset fans, or what have you, and it was too late to re-record lines.
Sonic has been outright killed before in a game (Granted, it was unintentionally hilarious), so I am wondering why they are pulling punches here.
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Post by BorneAgain on Nov 13, 2017 22:09:36 GMT -5
I have to wonder if one of two things happened: -People writing for the game not communicating with each other enough -If they planned to have Sonic and others more haggard/upset/etc, and dialed it back, out of ESRB worries, not wanting to upset fans, or what have you, and it was too late to re-record lines. Sonic has been outright killed before in a game (Granted, it was unintentionally hilarious), so I am wondering why they are pulling punches here. A great deal of Sonic Forces smacks of major plans that got changed during production, hence the lack of polish, narrative build going nowhere, and gameplay/level design that feels unfinished. I've heard speculation ranging from the Avatar originally going to be Boom Sonic, Classic Sonic's role being expanded in latter development, etc. This might be down to my own personal cynicism, but I suspect a lot of the game was in fact darker and with more expansive stages, but both got streamlined and simplified the closer got to release. Mania being delayed and the holiday release probably put the kibosh on any idea of delaying the game for further production work too. Its like the less severe version of Sonic 06. That game's rushed release led to broken levels and an awful story, while this managed just simple/shallow levels and a half assed story. Less severe consequences, but similar core issues.
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Nov 13, 2017 22:14:14 GMT -5
I have to wonder if one of two things happened: -People writing for the game not communicating with each other enough -If they planned to have Sonic and others more haggard/upset/etc, and dialed it back, out of ESRB worries, not wanting to upset fans, or what have you, and it was too late to re-record lines. Sonic has been outright killed before in a game (Granted, it was unintentionally hilarious), so I am wondering why they are pulling punches here. A great deal of Sonic Forces smacks of major plans that got changed during production, hence the lack of polish, narrative build going nowhere, and gameplay/level design that feels unfinished. I've heard speculation ranging from the Avatar originally going to be Boom Sonic, Classic Sonic's role being expanded in latter development, etc. This might be down to my own personal cynicism, but I suspect a lot of the game was in fact darker and with more expansive stages, but both got streamlined and simplified the closer got to release. Mania being delayed and the holiday release probably put the kibosh on any idea of delaying the game for further production work too. Its like the less severe version of Sonic 06. That game's rushed release led to broken levels and an awful story, while this managed just simple/shallow levels and a half assed story. Less severe consequences, but similar core issues. Still, I do admit I am glad we got it, even if it could be a lot better. I think I am just a sucker for character creation with a bunch of outfits, and this game has a lot of those to unlock. Kinda reminds me of Soul Calibur 3, and how it has some major issues, but I still put a ton of hours into it at the time.
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Post by BorneAgain on Nov 13, 2017 22:20:24 GMT -5
A great deal of Sonic Forces smacks of major plans that got changed during production, hence the lack of polish, narrative build going nowhere, and gameplay/level design that feels unfinished. I've heard speculation ranging from the Avatar originally going to be Boom Sonic, Classic Sonic's role being expanded in latter development, etc. This might be down to my own personal cynicism, but I suspect a lot of the game was in fact darker and with more expansive stages, but both got streamlined and simplified the closer got to release. Mania being delayed and the holiday release probably put the kibosh on any idea of delaying the game for further production work too. Its like the less severe version of Sonic 06. That game's rushed release led to broken levels and an awful story, while this managed just simple/shallow levels and a half assed story. Less severe consequences, but similar core issues. Still, I do admit I am glad we got it, even if it could be a lot better. I think I am just a sucker for character creation with a bunch of outfits, and this game has a lot of those to unlock. Kinda reminds me of Soul Calibur 3, and how it has some major issues, but I still put a ton of hours into it at the time. If the Avatar was a hail mary pass by Sonic Team to have something different for Forces vs other games in the series, then kudos to them for having at least one element that'll get some positive attention to the game. If there's anything worth keeping from it in all likelihood its the character creation.
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Post by Mozenrath on Nov 13, 2017 22:25:11 GMT -5
Still, I do admit I am glad we got it, even if it could be a lot better. I think I am just a sucker for character creation with a bunch of outfits, and this game has a lot of those to unlock. Kinda reminds me of Soul Calibur 3, and how it has some major issues, but I still put a ton of hours into it at the time. If the Avatar was a hail mary pass by Sonic Team to have something different for Forces vs other games in the series, then kudos to them for having at least one element that'll get some positive attention to the game. If there's anything worth keeping from it in all likelihood its the character creation. Yeah, Sonic Team has a bad habit of trying a bunch of gimmicks and not sticking with one. This is one I hope they keep. It's certainly more interesting than werehogs, etc.
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Post by xCompackx on Nov 14, 2017 0:15:26 GMT -5
Sonic Forces being rushed wouldn’t surprise me; there are things about Sonic Mania (later levels not having transitions, the story becoming more vague with the Hard Boiled Heavies towards the end, weird stage placement in a couple areas) that kind of made me wonder if it was rushed a tad as well. What I don’t get is why they’d have two games releasing so close to each other in the first place. Sonic Mania and Forces didn’t need to both be released this year. I get they’re connected story-wise, but Forces could have been a 2018 game, which would then give more time to focus on everything they want to do as well as refine the gameplay. There is plenty of room for a good Sonic 3D game; you just can’t rush this stuff.
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Post by Mozenrath on Nov 14, 2017 6:09:03 GMT -5
Sonic Forces being rushed wouldn’t surprise me; there are things about Sonic Mania (later levels not having transitions, the story becoming more vague with the Hard Boiled Heavies towards the end, weird stage placement in a couple areas) that kind of made me wonder if it was rushed a tad as well. What I don’t get is why they’d have two games releasing so close to each other in the first place. Sonic Mania and Forces didn’t need to both be released this year. I get they’re connected story-wise, but Forces could have been a 2018 game, which would then give more time to focus on everything they want to do as well as refine the gameplay. There is plenty of room for a good Sonic 3D game; you just can’t rush this stuff. I think they probably knew it wouldn't be quite as much fan crossover, since there's a number of fans who only play the 3D ones, and obviously a lot who only play the 2D. That, probably knowing Mania would get the hype going, and probably wanting Forces out in a time frame where it'd like get good holiday sales, would probably be a big part of why they didn't wait. I wonder if this will sell best on the Switch, kinda like the tendency of past Sonic titles to do best on Nintendo consoles. On one hand, that seems like a given it would, but on the other, proximity to Odyssey might leave some thinking one platform is plenty and have them either not get it or wait/get it on another console.
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Post by BorneAgain on Nov 14, 2017 12:24:26 GMT -5
Sonic Forces Development Speculation (Spoilers)Put on your surprised faces everybody, Sonic Forces actual game development (beyond the actual engine) started... last year. The more things change the more they stay the same with this company.
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Post by Jiren on Nov 14, 2017 13:18:40 GMT -5
Sonic Forces Development Speculation (Spoilers)Put on your surprised faces everybody, Sonic Forces actual game development (beyond the actual engine) started... last year. The more things change the more they stay the same with this company. It's comedic at this point
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2017 14:14:36 GMT -5
Sonic Forces Development Speculation (Spoilers)Put on your surprised faces everybody, Sonic Forces actual game development (beyond the actual engine) started... last year. The more things change the more they stay the same with this company. That would made sense since the debut trailer from last year only shown Classic and Modern Sonic with no gameplay footage plus Force was one of the first game announced for the Nintendo Switch too.
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Post by ShaolinHandLock on Nov 15, 2017 5:30:02 GMT -5
I've been watching a few let's plays of Sonic Forces, and honestly, the game doesn't look bad at all to me. It leaves me wondering whether or not everybody is exaggerating about how 'bad' it's supposed to be.
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Post by Dub H on Nov 15, 2017 9:19:12 GMT -5
I've been watching a few let's plays of Sonic Forces, and honestly, the game doesn't look bad at all to me. It leaves me wondering whether or not everybody is exaggerating about how 'bad' it's supposed to be. It looks fine,but plays a little weird with classic Sonic and The OC. Some odd level design choices,the enemies are not very interesting. Like,it is an okay game,but it doesn't live up to generations.Plus its only 4 hours long(which seems to be the main issue)
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Post by Muskrat on Nov 15, 2017 10:55:22 GMT -5
I've been watching a few let's plays of Sonic Forces, and honestly, the game doesn't look bad at all to me. It leaves me wondering whether or not everybody is exaggerating about how 'bad' it's supposed to be. I haven’t read a tonne of reviews, but the vibe I’ve gotten hasn’t been that it’s bad, but it’s also not good. And lacking polish.
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Jiren
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Post by Jiren on Nov 15, 2017 18:37:37 GMT -5
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Post by ShaolinHandLock on Nov 16, 2017 3:23:48 GMT -5
I've been watching a few let's plays of Sonic Forces, and honestly, the game doesn't look bad at all to me. It leaves me wondering whether or not everybody is exaggerating about how 'bad' it's supposed to be. It looks fine,but plays a little weird with classic Sonic and The OC. Some odd level design choices,the enemies are not very interesting. Like,it is an okay game,but it doesn't live up to generations.Plus its only 4 hours long(which seems to be the main issue) Fair enough then. If I ever see it really cheap, then I might pick it up anyway, I mean I picked up Mighty No.9 cheap and I really enjoyed it and everybody else hated that game. I've been watching a few let's plays of Sonic Forces, and honestly, the game doesn't look bad at all to me. It leaves me wondering whether or not everybody is exaggerating about how 'bad' it's supposed to be. I haven’t read a tonne of reviews, but the vibe I’ve gotten hasn’t been that it’s bad, but it’s also not good. And lacking polish. Well 'mediocre game lacking polish' is different to 'Sonic Forces is another Sonic Boom', which is why I asked the question, as I've seen a few people act as if it's completely terrible.
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Post by Mozenrath on Nov 16, 2017 6:22:57 GMT -5
Oh, it's definitely better than Sonic Boom or Sonic 06. It's just going to be more like Sonic Heroes tier or something, with the misfortune of coming out the same year as Odyssey, Mania, and Yooka Laylee to a lesser extent.
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Post by eJm on Nov 16, 2017 6:37:15 GMT -5
Oh, it's definitely better than Sonic Boom or Sonic 06. It's just going to be more like Sonic Heroes tier or something, with the misfortune of coming out the same year as Odyssey, Mania, and Yooka Laylee to a lesser extent. Yeah, whoever thought putting it out in November, the same month as Oddessy, didn't think anything through. Same with the developers of the new Bubsy, who on Earth thought that was going to fly right after Oddessy?
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Post by Mozenrath on Nov 16, 2017 6:52:15 GMT -5
Oh, it's definitely better than Sonic Boom or Sonic 06. It's just going to be more like Sonic Heroes tier or something, with the misfortune of coming out the same year as Odyssey, Mania, and Yooka Laylee to a lesser extent. Yeah, whoever thought putting it out in November, the same month as Oddessy, didn't think anything through. Same with the developers of the new Bubsy, who on Earth thought that was going to fly right after Oddessy? No earthly idea on Bubsy, especially on that price. As for Sonic, guessing they wanted to not miss out on holiday sales. Sure, no one is going to pick it over Odyssey on the Switch, but there are people who don't have that, but have ways of playing Sonic Forces, so there's that. That is honestly my best guess.
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