BlackoutCreature
Grimlock
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Post by BlackoutCreature on Nov 18, 2017 18:06:33 GMT -5
So I think what we've all learned from this is that nobody wants to see a Justice League that doesn't have Chloe Sullivan as a founding member. I mean, maybe there's another lesson in this somewhere, but I'm not seeing it.
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Post by The Summer of Muskrat XVII on Nov 18, 2017 18:33:01 GMT -5
Box Office Mojo now has it tracking for under a $100 million opening weekend. Forbes has it tracking somewhere between $85-90 million. Anything less than $100 million is a disaster and an embarrassment for WB-DC. F*** me. I didn't think there was anyway this did under $100 mil. opening weekend. That's rough. And considering it's apparently a fun movie, I'm disappointed. Hopefully seeing it on Tuesday (Tuesday is cheap movie night)
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Post by cabbageboy on Nov 18, 2017 18:51:44 GMT -5
This is the chickens coming home to roost for Warner Bros. after years of marginal films. The entire DC film universe since Man of Steel has been so ill conceived that it's almost a "How To Not Draw Money" for future producers. First, they started with an unappealing re-intro to Superman that stripped the character of everything people liked about him in favor of a brooding, sullen nonentity. Then they did what will turn out to be possibly the most ill advised film in history, Batman vs. Superman. I won't include Suicide Squad in this since it was a quirky, villain based film though to me it's a bit absurd to have some B list bad guys in a movie when we haven't even had an actual movie of the heroes who caught some of them! We see a brief bit of The Flash capturing Capt. Boomerang yet Flash himself hasn't even had a solo movie, haha.
Anyway, BvS. It would be one thing if that film was a weird side project, a stand alone. After all, The Dark Knight Returns was basically an odd Frank Miller side project that was a contrast to the actual Batman comics of that time period. The crazy, old Bruce Wayne there was NOT meant to be the actual main DC universe Batman. So thus trying to make Affleck into the psycho, older Bruce Wayne was doomed from the get go when this character is supposed to be the main draw of an entire cinematic universe, rather than just a Sean Connery in Never Say Never Again one off. The sad thing is that Affleck, despite all the razzing of his casting, is actually GOOD in that movie. The problems of Man of Steel persist though, namely that Henry Cavill and Amy Adams have zero chemistry (and really, given how Clark Kent is scripted he has no chemistry with anyone since he's barely even a character). And you have the catastrophic Jesse Eisenberg casting as Lex Luthor, which should have been first guessed by anyone with a brain in the Warner hierarchy. Then on top of all of this BvS tried to be a version of Death of Superman as well, while also trying to shoehorn in some kind of Justice League origin told in the laziest possible way via Bruce Wayne sending Diana Prince an email with videos of the various characters (as opposed to them actually having their own, you know, movies).
Now it's time for Justice League, despite the fact that we have not been introduced to several of the characters outside of a 10 second email clip. Oh and we've killed off Superman, who to anyone with a brain, is one of the core members of the Justice League. Think of the very title of the previous movie: Batman vs. Superman: Dawn of Justice. So the dawn of the JL is also the main two guys in it fighting each other nearly to the death? I mean...HUH??? Compare this to the lead up to the Avengers, where we had two Iron Man movies that gradually tease Nick Fury recruiting him, a less successful Hulk movie, and also intro movies for Cap and Thor...all leading to the eventual teaming in Avengers. The intro movies served their purpose and the result was 1.5 billion at the box office, and then the subsequent solo outings after that saw increased box office from the first solo outings since they converted a lot of the newbies into full time fans. What DC did was have the Iron Man vs. Captain America "Civil War" storyline and then decide to do an Avengers movie afterwards.
There's a reason Wonder Woman succeeded and this other stuff didn't. It was a solid origin story, didn't suck, didn't try to fit WW into the DC mold of everyone being a brooding antihero. And also, it had almost nothing to do with any of this current crappy storyline.
Also, as far as what I've seen of JL from trailers I honestly don't know what is going on in it, other than "Hey, these people team up...come see it." I don't know anything about the villain, no idea what the stakes are, and Superman's cryptic involvement left me wondering if he was a full fledged team member or a glorified cameo. In short the marketing sucked. Avengers marketing? Well, we had some idea of all the characters, and we had seen the villain Loki in Thor and knew he was back for an even bigger plot to conquer earth. Of the JL cast we know Affleck and Gadot, no idea on how much Cavill is in it, and the guys playing Flash, Aquaman, and Cyborg are total unknowns to us. As an aside, I loathe the Jason Momoa casting in the first place since we have never even seen the traditional, square Aquaman in a movie. What they are doing here simply isn't that character at all, especially with some tweaks the usual blond dude with the green and orange costume could be a perfectly fine cinematic hero if done properly. Give Chris Hemsworth a shave and haircut and he'd be fine as Aquaman. We don't need Roman Reigns lite.
If this film loses a bunch of money, I have no idea where this DC Universe even goes. I guess they can do another Suicide Squad since it really isn't connected to much of these events. Maybe solo movies for the others, though after an ill received debut in JL I'm not sure people would care. I do know that they need to keep Zack Snyder away from these properties from now on. Maybe a token producer credit, but not anything with any actual serious input involved. It's stunning how much Warner Bros. have let this guy devalue some of their most treasured characters and properties. Think back to the late 1980s. Thor was the butt of jokes in Adventures in Babysitting for crying out loud, while Batman was the biggest movie of 1989. Now? Thor did a 117 million dollar opening weekend, while everyone in the Justice League will be doing well to even get 90 million. Think about that. What an utter failure of a cinematic universe.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Nov 18, 2017 18:55:46 GMT -5
So I think what we've all learned from this is that nobody wants to see a Justice League that doesn't have Chloe Sullivan as a founding member. I mean, maybe there's another lesson in this somewhere, but I'm not seeing it. I wonder why they never continued to try to make the Justice League a thing in Smallville Also weren't they supposed to introduce Aquaman and that shit got scrapped?
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Nov 18, 2017 19:01:04 GMT -5
This is the chickens coming home to roost for Warner Bros. after years of marginal films. The entire DC film universe since Man of Steel has been so ill conceived that it's almost a "How To Not Draw Money" for future producers. First, they started with an unappealing re-intro to Superman that stripped the character of everything people liked about him in favor of a brooding, sullen nonentity. Then they did what will turn out to be possibly the most ill advised film in history, Batman vs. Superman. I won't include Suicide Squad in this since it was a quirky, villain based film though to me it's a bit absurd to have some B list bad guys in a movie when we haven't even had an actual movie of the heroes who caught some of them! We see a brief bit of The Flash capturing Capt. Boomerang yet Flash himself hasn't even had a solo movie, haha. Anyway, BvS. It would be one thing if that film was a weird side project, a stand alone. After all, The Dark Knight Returns was basically an odd Frank Miller side project that was a contrast to the actual Batman comics of that time period. The crazy, old Bruce Wayne there was NOT meant to be the actual main DC universe Batman. So thus trying to make Affleck into the psycho, older Bruce Wayne was doomed from the get go when this character is supposed to be the main draw of an entire cinematic universe, rather than just a Sean Connery in Never Say Never Again one off. The sad thing is that Affleck, despite all the razzing of his casting, is actually GOOD in that movie. The problems of Man of Steel persist though, namely that Henry Cavill and Amy Adams have zero chemistry (and really, given how Clark Kent is scripted he has no chemistry with anyone since he's barely even a character). And you have the catastrophic Jesse Eisenberg casting as Lex Luthor, which should have been first guessed by anyone with a brain in the Warner hierarchy. Then on top of all of this BvS tried to be a version of Death of Superman as well, while also trying to shoehorn in some kind of Justice League origin told in the laziest possible way via Bruce Wayne sending Diana Prince an email with videos of the various characters (as opposed to them actually having their own, you know, movies). Now it's time for Justice League, despite the fact that we have not been introduced to several of the characters outside of a 10 second email clip. Oh and we've killed off Superman, who to anyone with a brain, is one of the core members of the Justice League. Think of the very title of the previous movie: Batman vs. Superman: Dawn of Justice. So the dawn of the JL is also the main two guys in it fighting each other nearly to the death? I mean...HUH??? Compare this to the lead up to the Avengers, where we had two Iron Man movies that gradually tease Nick Fury recruiting him, a less successful Hulk movie, and also intro movies for Cap and Thor...all leading to the eventual teaming in Avengers. The intro movies served their purpose and the result was 1.5 billion at the box office, and then the subsequent solo outings after that saw increased box office from the first solo outings since they converted a lot of the newbies into full time fans. What DC did was have the Iron Man vs. Captain America "Civil War" storyline and then decide to do an Avengers movie afterwards. There's a reason Wonder Woman succeeded and this other stuff didn't. It was a solid origin story, didn't suck, didn't try to fit WW into the DC mold of everyone being a brooding antihero. And also, it had almost nothing to do with any of this current crappy storyline. Also, as far as what I've seen of JL from trailers I honestly don't know what is going on in it, other than "Hey, these people team up...come see it." I don't know anything about the villain, no idea what the stakes are, and Superman's cryptic involvement left me wondering if he was a full fledged team member or a glorified cameo. In short the marketing sucked. Avengers marketing? Well, we had some idea of all the characters, and we had seen the villain Loki in Thor and knew he was back for an even bigger plot to conquer earth. Of the JL cast we know Affleck and Gadot, no idea on how much Cavill is in it, and the guys playing Flash, Aquaman, and Cyborg are total unknowns to us. As an aside, I loathe the Jason Momoa casting in the first place since we have never even seen the traditional, square Aquaman in a movie. What they are doing here simply isn't that character at all, especially with some tweaks the usual blond dude with the green and orange costume could be a perfectly fine cinematic hero if done properly. Give Chris Hemsworth a shave and haircut and he'd be fine as Aquaman. We don't need Roman Reigns lite. If this film loses a bunch of money, I have no idea where this DC Universe even goes. I guess they can do another Suicide Squad since it really isn't connected to much of these events. Maybe solo movies for the others, though after an ill received debut in JL I'm not sure people would care. I do know that they need to keep Zack Snyder away from these properties from now on. Maybe a token producer credit, but not anything with any actual serious input involved. It's stunning how much Warner Bros. have let this guy devalue some of their most treasured characters and properties. Think back to the late 1980s. Thor was the butt of jokes in Adventures in Babysitting for crying out loud, while Batman was the biggest movie of 1989. Now? Thor did a 117 million dollar opening weekend, while everyone in the Justice League will be doing well to even get 90 million. Think about that. What an utter failure of a cinematic universe. I kind of agree with you in all that but I disagree on the Momoa casting. Say what you will but he looks bad ass and from what i'm hearing he's essentially got the "dude bro" character down packed. Now obviously he has to get serious and will see how he does for his own movie but I can see this type of Aquaman making good moves
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2017 19:04:18 GMT -5
So I think what we've all learned from this is that nobody wants to see a Justice League that doesn't have Chloe Sullivan as a founding member. I mean, maybe there's another lesson in this somewhere, but I'm not seeing it. I wonder why they never continued to try to make the Justice League a thing in Smallville Also weren't they supposed to introduce Aquaman and that shit got scrapped? The Justice League was around in SV more often than not but instead of a group they used them more individually.....untill the season 11 comic where they finally introd Batman , wonder woman etc. And yea the Aquaman pilot was a thing but they scrapped it and Justin Hartley ended up becoming Green Arrow. They even had plans for the legion of doom , and also UltraMan which lead to speculation there were plans for the crime syndicate.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Nov 18, 2017 19:08:01 GMT -5
I wonder why they never continued to try to make the Justice League a thing in Smallville Also weren't they supposed to introduce Aquaman and that shit got scrapped? The Justice League was around in SV more often than not but instead of a group they used them more individually.....untill the season 11 comic where they finally introd Batman , wonder woman etc. And yea the Aquaman pilot was a thing but they scrapped it and Justin Hartley ended up becoming Green Arrow. They even had plans for the legion of doom , and also UltraMan which lead to speculation there were plans for the crime syndicate. I remember they had individual episodes of Clark meeting Cyborg and Flash in different scenarios and then they had that team up episode but I think that was it after that Also speaking of Hartley that f***ed me up when he appeared on the show as Green Arrow because I remember him being on Passions (that soap opera made no sense what so ever)
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Nov 18, 2017 19:08:40 GMT -5
If this film loses a bunch of money, I have no idea where this DC Universe even goes. I guess they can do another Suicide Squad since it really isn't connected to much of these events. Maybe solo movies for the others, though after an ill received debut in JL I'm not sure people would care. Looking at the DC schedule, this is what they have in the works: - Aquaman (2018) - Shazam! (2019) - Wonder Woman 2 (2019) - Cyborg (2020) - Green Lantern Corps (2020) - Batgirl - The Batman - Black Adam - Flashpoint - Gotham City Sirens - Justice League Dark - Nightwing - Suicide Squad 2 - Deadshot - Deathstroke/Injustice League - Harley vs. Joker - Joker - Lobo - Man of Steel 2 - Justice League 2 I'm really not seeing any kind of cohesive plan here, and it all feels like they're throwing shit against the wall and seeing what sticks.
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Post by The Summer of Muskrat XVII on Nov 18, 2017 19:13:39 GMT -5
I will say, if JL under performing does anythign to interfere with Nightwing being made I will be so f***ing pissed off. I'm more excited for that then any other movie on the slate (already saw how quickly they can f*** up a Green Lantern movie, which would be the only one I'd be more excited for)
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2017 19:14:18 GMT -5
The Justice League was around in SV more often than not but instead of a group they used them more individually.....untill the season 11 comic where they finally introd Batman , wonder woman etc. And yea the Aquaman pilot was a thing but they scrapped it and Justin Hartley ended up becoming Green Arrow. They even had plans for the legion of doom , and also UltraMan which lead to speculation there were plans for the crime syndicate. I remember they had individual episodes of Clark meeting Cyborg and Flash in different scenarios and then they had that team up episode but I think that was it after that Also speaking of Hartley that f***ed me up when he appeared on the show as Green Arrow because I remember him being on Passions (that soap opera made no sense what so ever) smallville.wikia.com/wiki/Justice_LeagueThey spent alot more time using the idividual members than as a full team...but when it was a team usually it is Clark and Green Arrow and then the others would be cycled in and out.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2017 19:16:00 GMT -5
After the post credit scene, I shouted...
THERES NO CRYING IN BASEBALL!!!
That’s all I have to add... the movie wasn’t great still fun way to kill a couple hours. Not sure where they will go from here Aquaman is already filming and everything else is pre production phases... so I just see them rebooting the whole thing and just do solo films unconnected to each other but I do see them going ahead with WW2x
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Post by RI Richmark on Nov 18, 2017 19:46:18 GMT -5
I wonder why they never continued to try to make the Justice League a thing in Smallville Also weren't they supposed to introduce Aquaman and that shit got scrapped? The Justice League was around in SV more often than not but instead of a group they used them more individually.....untill the season 11 comic where they finally introd Batman , wonder woman etc. And yea the Aquaman pilot was a thing but they scrapped it and Justin Hartley ended up becoming Green Arrow. They even had plans for the legion of doom , and also UltraMan which lead to speculation there were plans for the crime syndicate. Way off topic here but why are the bad guys watching a video of Andre The Giant? Do they get the WWE Network?
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Bub (BLM)
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Fed. Up.
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Post by Bub (BLM) on Nov 18, 2017 19:49:09 GMT -5
It's time for DC to go back to the drawing board. Forget this shared universe idea and focus on telling genre films befitting the individual characters. Rather than being a second rate Marvel, offer something they won't - unique genres per character. They could do Spielberg type military flicks with Blackhawks and Sgt. Rock. A body horror film with Swamp Thing. Occult mind-benders with Constantine and Etrigan. Space epics with The New Gods and Green Lantern Corps. Murder/Mysteries with Batman and The Question. A young adult coming of age series with Teen Titans. Game of Thrones style fantasy with Aquaman. Time travel sagas with The Flash. Save the straight-up superhero genre for Superman and Wonder Woman.
I'm just saying, make genre movies. Marvel won't, and staying the current course seems to be leading towards disaster.
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chrom
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Post by chrom on Nov 18, 2017 20:07:07 GMT -5
If BvS was a crazy hail mary, than JL is a desperate fourth quarter drive
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Post by BayleyTiffyCodyCenaJudyHopps on Nov 18, 2017 20:20:33 GMT -5
I thought it was pretty fun. It's got some flaws, I didn't love it as much as WW, but generally I it was a big improvement over Dawn of Justice in many ways.
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BlackoutCreature
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Post by BlackoutCreature on Nov 18, 2017 20:40:22 GMT -5
So I think what we've all learned from this is that nobody wants to see a Justice League that doesn't have Chloe Sullivan as a founding member. I mean, maybe there's another lesson in this somewhere, but I'm not seeing it. I wonder why they never continued to try to make the Justice League a thing in Smallville Also weren't they supposed to introduce Aquaman and that shit got scrapped? The Justice League was actually a pretty major part of the last three seasons, but as others have said it very rarely included anybody beyond Clark, Ollie, Chloe and maybe a guest star for that week (most often Martian Manhunter). There was an Aquaman pilot filmed starring Justin Hartley (Smallville's Green Arrow) as Arthur. If it went to series it would've aired simultaneously with Smallville season six, but it wasn't picked up by the WB. There was supposedly a pitch for a Justice League series that would've spun off of Smallville, but it doesn't sound like it would've been the kind of JL series anybody would've wanted. The plot would've revolved around Ollie taking in random meta-humans and training them to use their powers. Sounds more like an X-Men series actually. As much as I loved Smallville, especially in its early seasons, it really passed its expiration date by the time it went off the air. I was burnt out on it and I'm not really sure I would've been all that up for a continuation. Well, unless it was a Chloe Sullivan series, because she rules. Way off topic here but why are the bad guys watching a video of Andre The Giant? Do they get the WWE Network? That's the Smallville version of Toyman, played by Chris Gauthier (Vincent from Eureka).
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Post by A Platypus Rave is Correct on Nov 18, 2017 20:55:02 GMT -5
There was an Aquaman pilot filmed starring Justin Hartley (Smallville's Green Arrow) as Arthur. If it went to series it would've aired simultaneously with Smallville season six, but it wasn't picked up by the WB. . It WAS picked up for a series... but before it got started UPN and WB merged and all the shows in pre-production got cancelled.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2017 21:02:16 GMT -5
Just watched it. Overall it was a fun time for sure. You'd have to try really hard to walk out of the theaters unhappy with this one. Flash went a bit too hard with the "gosh I'm awkward" stuff but nothing egregious. Aquaman was the standout star by a lot. Cyborg was solid as the tech guy too. Affleck was great as Bats and a little rough as Wayne. The villain was pretty standard for superhero films. I liked that he leaned into the simplicity of it. "I take down worlds - THIS IS WHAT I DO, BABY!!!" Had a lot of cool/fun moments too. Amy Addams as Lois Lane was a millstone around this movie's neck though. She just ruined every scene she was in and took the wind out of a moment that should have been MUCH better. Overall though it kinda felt like a two-part ep of the 90s cartoon. Light on story but has strong thematic elements for all the characters to really work with. Not a spectacular film by any stretch of the imagination but in terms of superhero ensemble flicks I enjoyed more than most. {Spoiler}{Spoiler} Aquaman's accidental lasso confession was a legit funny moment for me.
Also, I like how what they set up for Supes and Bats in MoS & BvS really paid off here in terms of themes and character beats. Batman's worst nightmare of a rogue Superman happened and he responded with more humanity than aggression. Also the "do you bleed?" and "the world doesn't need you" lines from frenzied supes was badass.
A lot of nice character progression for both over the 3 movies. Especially cool to see Superman come into his own from being torn in MoS to completely crestfallen in BvS to realizing why he should embrace being superman in this one.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Nov 18, 2017 21:05:59 GMT -5
Ticket sales wise, DC kind of poisoned the well themselves. BvS was huge the first weekend, but was such a garbage fire that it's made everything since iffy. Suicide Squad did the exact same business and was the exact same garbage fire.
Wonder Woman was the outlier where word of mouth really helped.
I liked JL a lot, but DC is going to have a string of good movies to engender some goodwill.
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Post by Friday Night SmackOwn on Nov 18, 2017 21:28:08 GMT -5
The way I see it, I think the movie might be seen as an okay movie by itself, but not nearly as good as an Avengers-style culmination of multiple movies set in the same universe.
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