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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Aug 2, 2016 10:06:01 GMT -5
Can anyone think of any examples of these types of switches that actually provided interesting storytelling options? I'm sure they are out there but I can't think of any. Usually it just seems like a pointless publicity stunt like with Ghostbusters, or is just a matter of casting a good actor for the part like Idris Elba in Thor. The fact that a change could help with better representation automatically means that most of them aren't "pointless publicly stunts ".
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Fauxnaki
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Post by Fauxnaki on Aug 2, 2016 10:06:26 GMT -5
Would a female version of the hangover be empowering or creepy?
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the2ndevil
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Post by the2ndevil on Aug 2, 2016 10:08:47 GMT -5
Would a female version of the hangover be empowering or creepy? I've not seen either, but I heard that is what Bridesmaids essentially was.
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Fauxnaki
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Post by Fauxnaki on Aug 2, 2016 10:11:59 GMT -5
Would a female version of the hangover be empowering or creepy? I've not seen either, but I heard that is what Bridesmaids essentially was. But the premise of bridesmaids isn't that They black out for an entire night.
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Post by Jedi-El of Tomorrow on Aug 2, 2016 10:15:01 GMT -5
But mostly its marketability. After all, these are big budget major motion pictures, not a charity. I mean, maybe one day Unicef will get into the movie making business, but until then, they'll do whatever gimmicks they can to put butts in the seats. Whether that's making "Captain America vs Iron Man 9" or doing a remake of Tango & Cash with Gina Carano and Zoe Saldana.I want to see this.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2016 10:42:19 GMT -5
Can anyone think of any examples of these types of switches that actually provided interesting storytelling options? I'm sure they are out there but I can't think of any. Usually it just seems like a pointless publicity stunt like with Ghostbusters, or is just a matter of casting a good actor for the part like Idris Elba in Thor. Eh, to be honest, most casting choices in general are just pointless publicity stunts. I mean, are you seriously gonna have me believe anyone casts Channing Tatum for his acting ability? That's just how it works. They gotta sell the movie to investors and different types of audiences. Are you gonna geta BAFTA award winning, theatrically trained high-caliber actor or a hunk with amazing abs and glutes that make you drool? It's all stunt casting at that level. But the Evil Dead movie was one film where they switched the leads with a female character and I think that was a great example of how to do a remake because while it had similar aspects, largely it was its own story (and it was actually written better than Evil Dead). Beyond GB, I can't really think of that many characters/remakes where a full on gender swap has happened. Maybe...shit, Bedazzled? I mean, Peter Cook was great, but Liz Hurley did a much better job as the devil to me. I dunno - people act like it happens every other movie, but I'm hard pressed to think of more than a dozen films where a race or gender swap of a lead character has happened. Unless you're talking about race swapping them for a white character, then the list goes on and on.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2016 10:46:51 GMT -5
But mostly its marketability. After all, these are big budget major motion pictures, not a charity. I mean, maybe one day Unicef will get into the movie making business, but until then, they'll do whatever gimmicks they can to put butts in the seats. Whether that's making "Captain America vs Iron Man 9" or doing a remake of Tango & Cash with Gina Carano and Zoe Saldana.I want to see this. I kinda pulled those names out of the ether. I'm not sure about Carano's acting ability. She was good in Haywire, but outside of that....she uh, makes a much better henchwoman than lead to me. Now that I sit down and think about it...I'd probably go with Emily Blunt or Adrianne Palicki instead of Carano, unless they were VERY careful about how they wrote her character so it played more to her strengths.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2016 10:50:16 GMT -5
Can anyone think of any examples of these types of switches that actually provided interesting storytelling options? I'm sure they are out there but I can't think of any. Usually it just seems like a pointless publicity stunt like with Ghostbusters, or is just a matter of casting a good actor for the part like Idris Elba in Thor. I mean, are you seriously gonna have me believe anyone casts Channing Tatum for his acting ability? No, but reading up on him, he actually has a fairly varied background before becoming an actor: he was a star athlete, a martial artist, a model, and a dancer. Magic Mike was written mostly to reflect his experiences as a stripper. It's probably one of those things where he gets work not only because of how he looks, but also because he can do a fair amount of his own stunts and is in fairly good shape. Another thing that probably helps people to keep getting work is that they aren't a problem around the set.
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Post by YAKMAN is ICHIBAN on Aug 2, 2016 10:52:34 GMT -5
I mean, are you seriously gonna have me believe anyone casts Channing Tatum for his acting ability? No, but reading up on him, he actually has a fairly varied background before becoming an actor: he was a star athlete, a martial artist, a model, and a dancer. Magic Mike was written mostly to reflect his experiences as a stripper. It's probably one of those things where he gets work not only because of how he looks, but also because he can do a fair amount of his own stunts and is in fairly good shape. Another thing that probably helps people to keep getting work is that they aren't a problem around the set. On the dancer point, I loved him in Hail Caesar!
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Aug 2, 2016 10:53:29 GMT -5
I kinda pulled those names out of the ether. I'm not sure about Carano's acting ability. She was good in Haywire, but outside of that....she uh, makes a much better henchwoman than lead to me. Now that I sit down and think about it...I'd probably go with Emily Blunt or Adrianne Palicki instead of Carano, unless they were VERY careful about how they wrote her character so it played more to her strengths. I thought she was a pretty good thug as Angel Dust in Deadpool. All she did was hit people, her main forte.
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Post by YAKMAN is ICHIBAN on Aug 2, 2016 10:54:38 GMT -5
To answer my own question a bit, one character getting a gender swap that worked out really well was Judy Dench as M. Having a woman be M allowed for the development of a maternal relationship which worked really well, especially in Skyfall.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2016 10:57:48 GMT -5
I mean, are you seriously gonna have me believe anyone casts Channing Tatum for his acting ability? No, but reading up on him, he actually has a fairly varied background before becoming an actor: he was a star athlete, a martial artist, a model, and a dancer. Magic Mike was written mostly to reflect his experiences as a stripper. It's probably one of those things where he gets work not only because of how he looks, but also because he can do a fair amount of his own stunts and is in fairly good shape. Another thing that probably helps people to keep getting work is that they aren't a problem around the set. Oh for sure. I didn't meant to write him off wholesale. In terms of having the right skillset for action or anything involving a lot of body movement where stunt doubles aren't applicable, he's definitely a better hire. If I were casting a movie that revolved around dance fighting, he's your go-to guy, but if its just straight up acting.....you know.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Aug 2, 2016 10:58:55 GMT -5
To answer my own question a bit, one character getting a gender swap that worked out really well was Judy Dench as M. Having a woman be M allowed for the development of a maternal relationship which worked really well, especially in Skyfall. even though that mad ethe whole reboot thing murky since she was M in the first place as it was meant to show the difference between the Cold War and Goldeneye. (also not sure if that really fits as it was meant to be a different character with the same code name of M)
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Bo Rida
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Post by Bo Rida on Aug 2, 2016 11:04:49 GMT -5
Usually an uneasy mixture of diversity related good intentions and the marketing team generating some free publicity while avoiding a backlash from having an all white/male cast. Other times it's just the most sensible casting decision (like Michael Clark Duncan as Kingpin) or a way of doing something new with old characters/franchises. Even if a studio had the best script in the world, I think they should still always try to avoid all white casts, unless the setting explicitly requires it. My attitude towards diversity is "if not now,when?" The white male default can't and isn't going to last forever. Why fight it? I just don't understand why this angers people so much. Is the world really going to end if kids want to be Sam Wilson's Captain America over Steve's on Halloween? Some things are much more important than staying true to a fictional mythos. I think there should be more diversity in original works but changing existing characters is different. Take Hermoine in Harry Potter. She's a white middle-class kid that steps into a new magical world and (presumably) for the first time in her life has to deal with racism due her not coming from a wizarding family. Going back to her school days and putting a black kid in her place would fundamentally change that aspect of her character. That in turn would would change the way the racism theme is handled throughout the series and the way people view her leading a campaign to free the elf slaves. Personally I think it makes her character less interesting and that the associated themes become too on the nose for my liking. Others may think it's a good change that reinforces the original idea behind her being called "mudblood".
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2016 11:08:21 GMT -5
I kinda pulled those names out of the ether. I'm not sure about Carano's acting ability. She was good in Haywire, but outside of that....she uh, makes a much better henchwoman than lead to me. Now that I sit down and think about it...I'd probably go with Emily Blunt or Adrianne Palicki instead of Carano, unless they were VERY careful about how they wrote her character so it played more to her strengths. I thought she was a pretty good thug as Angel Dust in Deadpool. All she did was hit people, her main forte. Both her and Ajax were my favorite characters in that movie for some reason. But now that you mention that role, I think Carano would be great as the Requin type character, without the hacky accent of course. haha!
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Aug 2, 2016 11:15:20 GMT -5
Even if a studio had the best script in the world, I think they should still always try to avoid all white casts, unless the setting explicitly requires it. My attitude towards diversity is "if not now,when?" The white male default can't and isn't going to last forever. Why fight it? I just don't understand why this angers people so much. Is the world really going to end if kids want to be Sam Wilson's Captain America over Steve's on Halloween? Some things are much more important than staying true to a fictional mythos. I think there should be more diversity in original works but changing existing characters is different. Take Hermoine in Harry Potter. She's a white middle-class kid that steps into a new magical world and (presumably) for the first time in her life has to deal with racism due her not coming from a wizarding family. Going back to her school days and putting a black kid in her place would fundamentally change that aspect of her character. That in turn would would change the way the racism theme is handled throughout the series and the way people view her leading a campaign to free the elf slaves. Personally I think it makes her character less interesting and that the associated themes become too on the nose for my liking. Others may think it's a good change that reinforces the original idea behind her being called "mudblood". I think it's perfectly fine. Nothing about Hermonie's character arc automatically requires her to be white. The fact there's more of an equal playing field in terms of visibility with her new casting is way more important to me than the message allegedly seeming too "on the nose ".
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agent817
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Post by agent817 on Aug 2, 2016 11:28:59 GMT -5
I remember my parents complaining about Ving Rhames playing Kojak in that short-lived TV series of the same name. I never watched either version, but I remember them complaining because Telly Savalas is Greek and Kojak is supposed to be Greek, not black.
Was there an uproar with Michael Clarke Duncan playing Wilson Fisk?
Not a lot of people realize that the comic version of Idris Elba's character in The Losers is actually a white Frenchman, rather than a black guy. Same with Zoe Saldana's character was actually Afghan, not Bolivian. Then again, did a lot of people even realize that The Losers was a comic first before becoming a movie?
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Nr1Humanoid
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Post by Nr1Humanoid on Aug 2, 2016 11:31:33 GMT -5
Don't understand the backlash behind the new Ghost busters. It's not like they turned Venkman and Co.into women. It's a new Ghostbusters team who happens to be women.
It's like turning James Bond black. By all means do, but make James Bond a codename different agents uses so the change at least makes sense.
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Bub (BLM)
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Post by Bub (BLM) on Aug 2, 2016 13:31:10 GMT -5
Marketability. Demographics/attitudes of the country have shifted so the market is trying to adjust accordingly. Plus it's a more novel concept so it's more likely to cut through the clutter of today's media landscape. But it really doesn't happen that much. It just seems to be that way because protagonists have been basically all white dudes since filming began. When you go down the list of films that come out, even remakes/reboots, the vast majority of protagonists are still white and male, but when a handful of protagonists are changed it just seems more widespread than it really is - partially due to how click bait media sites blow shit up. Also, why not tell a different type of story instead of just aping the first one? Like with the Splash reboot. Okay, someone told the female version, now let's see what the story would be like with a male lead. Bingo. The country is becoming more diverse, so I don't have a problem with it. I think a good story is a good story and representation are also equally important. You don't need to oppose one of those stances to support the other. Race swapping only bothers me when a minorty character is changed to a white one. And that's not out of hypocrisy. Stuff like Scarlett Johannason playing Kusanagi in a Ghost In The Shell movie is bad because it cuts off opportunities for Asian actresses to not only play a canonically Asian character, but for Asian actors to become more visible. That's not fair at all. On the other hand, like I always say, if Warner Bros decided to cast a Black actor as Superman, I'd be all for it because of the comparative lack of heroes of color in American media. I also approved of the Ghostbusters remake for a similar reason- I liked it anyway, but its quality aside, I think it's awesome that girls can more easily imagine themselves in fantasy roles that aren't tied to the usual clichés. TL,DR: More characters that aren't white men by default are good, so I approve of most of these changes. And I say that as a Steve Rogers die hard fan, who is as white as you can get. I mostly agree, though slightly differently. I think that so long as a character's iconic physical traits remain in tact, race is irrelevant. For example, Michael B. Jordan was fine as Johnny Storm because when he flame on, he looked like the iconic Human Torch. Michael Clarke Duncan was big, bald, and menacing. He looked like Kingpin. That is why I disagree with Superman, though. His hair is such a big part of the iconic Superman image, and his do would look downright strange on a black guy. For the record before anyone says I'm against making A-List white heroes black, my number one pick for Batman before Affleck was cast was Idris Elba.
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Dr. T is an alien
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Post by Dr. T is an alien on Aug 2, 2016 14:00:06 GMT -5
In the end, I guess it all depends. I was not terribly excited about a gender-swap reboot of Ghostbusters, but that was mainly because I was only interested in the original because of the cast and the new cast did not excite me. Find me a cast I care about and I don't care how ridiculous the genderswapped reboot happens to be.
For instance, if Dwayne Johnson announced that his two favorite things of all time were Mork and Mindy and the movie The Parent Trap and that he intended to merge the two to make a movie where he was a set of Orkian twins who intended to get his parents Chloe Grace Moretz and Tyler James Williams back together through space hijinks, I would be willing to be the only guy in the theater on opening night if it came to that.
I do not apologize for putting that scenario in your head. In fact, I am proud to do so.
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