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Post by A Platypus Rave on Aug 2, 2016 14:01:57 GMT -5
For instance, if Dwayne Johnson announced that his two favorite things of all time were Mork and Mindy and the movie The Parent Trap and that he intended to merge the two to make a movie where he was a set of Orkian twins who intended to get his parents Chloe Grace Moretz and Tyler James Williams back together through space hijinks I would be willing to be the only guy in the theater on opening night if it came to that. that sounds like a damned amazing movie
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Aug 2, 2016 14:55:22 GMT -5
Bingo. The country is becoming more diverse, so I don't have a problem with it. I think a good story is a good story and representation are also equally important. You don't need to oppose one of those stances to support the other. Race swapping only bothers me when a minorty character is changed to a white one. And that's not out of hypocrisy. Stuff like Scarlett Johannason playing Kusanagi in a Ghost In The Shell movie is bad because it cuts off opportunities for Asian actresses to not only play a canonically Asian character, but for Asian actors to become more visible. That's not fair at all. On the other hand, like I always say, if Warner Bros decided to cast a Black actor as Superman, I'd be all for it because of the comparative lack of heroes of color in American media. I also approved of the Ghostbusters remake for a similar reason- I liked it anyway, but its quality aside, I think it's awesome that girls can more easily imagine themselves in fantasy roles that aren't tied to the usual clichés. TL,DR: More characters that aren't white men by default are good, so I approve of most of these changes. And I say that as a Steve Rogers die hard fan, who is as white as you can get. I mostly agree, though slightly differently. I think that so long as a character's iconic physical traits remain in tact, race is irrelevant. For example, Michael B. Jordan was fine as Johnny Storm because when he flame on, he looked like the iconic Human Torch. Michael Clarke Duncan was big, bald, and menacing. He looked like Kingpin. That is why I disagree with Superman, though. His hair is such a big part of the iconic Superman image, and his do would look downright strange on a black guy. For the record before anyone says I'm against making A-List white heroes black, my number one pick for Batman before Affleck was cast was Idris Elba. Honestly, if the actor was good enough then I wouldn't care if he lost his coif. If they gave someone like Chadwick Boseman a Superman screen test and he knocked it out the park, they should just run with him. As for 007, my dream future Bond was Chiwetel Ejiofor, followed by Michael Fassbender or Tom Hardy. Elba to me is establishing himself as a premiere villain actor (Chief Bogo from Zootopia kind of being a recent exemption, but still). some I'd rather see him as one of Bond's antagonists.
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Juice
El Dandy
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Post by Juice on Aug 2, 2016 14:59:30 GMT -5
Makes perfect sense for splash, the rocketeer and Evil Dead having a female lead to avoid ash. Also Irdis Elba in Thor was a race change worth having. I never read the Dark Tower so im not sure abput that.
Doing it just to do it for "diversity" is lame. So is white washing though. This great wall movie with Matt Damon made me so wtf even though im not typically lile that. Same with the Last Samauri.
Overall it makes sense and sometimes should happen but other times shouldn't. Having two Wally wests who are cousins and named after the same guy is dumb. That version of kid flash has always annoyed me. Its just a lazy diversity change that made little sense
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Aug 2, 2016 16:33:27 GMT -5
This great wall movie with Matt Damon made me so wtf even though im not typically lile that. Same with the Last Samauri. People always bring up the Last Samurai as a topic of white washing which confuses me. Tom Cruise's character WASN'T the Last Samurai, Ken Watanabe was. and the real life people that Tom Cruise's character were loosely based on were white. and the main theme of the movie was that Tom Cruise original reason for being there was to Westernize Japan an that was treated like a bad thing.
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Post by Stone Cold Eleanor Shellstrop on Aug 2, 2016 16:46:29 GMT -5
This great wall movie with Matt Damon made me so wtf even though im not typically lile that. Same with the Last Samauri. People always bring up the Last Samurai as a topic of white washing which confuses me. I always think of the Paul Mooney "Mooney on Movies" segment from The Dave Chappelle show.
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
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Post by chazraps on Aug 2, 2016 16:56:00 GMT -5
It's just now expected, but why? Is it just for the sake of changing and revamping? It happens so much it almost seems that way More than just representation (which is important) it also allows for a fresh take on a classic story. I wonder if the people who have issue with a black Spider-man or female Ghostbuster would, 300 years ago, complained of black and female actors performing traditionally white males' roles in Shakespeare's plays.
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
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Post by chazraps on Aug 2, 2016 16:57:36 GMT -5
Can anyone think of any examples of these types of switches that actually provided interesting storytelling options? I'm sure they are out there but I can't think of any. Usually it just seems like a pointless publicity stunt like with Ghostbusters, or is just a matter of casting a good actor for the part like Idris Elba in Thor. Ghostbusters wasn't an publicity stunt. It was an interesting refreshing different story.
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Post by Raskovnik on Aug 2, 2016 17:50:33 GMT -5
I actually was just having a really good conversation about this with a friend this morning, one we've had before but it's an interesting subject so we revisit it every so often. We reached the conclusion that even if it's completely arbitrary to you (someone who is probably a white guy) more diversity and representation in media is pretty much always a good thing. He's Japanese, and his perspective was there simply aren't any Asian men in big Hollywood movies or TV shows other than joke characters for the most part, and even in Japanese media like video games and cartoons the characters who are Japanese rarely look Japanese, which instilled within him almost subliminally this sort of insecurity that maybe there was a reason hardly anyone who looks like him showing up in any movies, TV shows, games, etc. I had the same issue growing up as someone who's Native American and proud of it, though at least we get some token characters like my boy Nightwolf, and even if he's a running joke Tatanka was my f***ing dude. That's actually a big part of why wrestling drew me in as a kid, same as my older brother and Ricky Steamboat (my brother's Japanese, I'm adopted, it's a long story haha). It means a lot to see someone who looks like you or who you could be kicking some ass, and usually the only reason it comes across as weird or perhaps pandering when a character isn't white or is changed from being white is because for so long everything has been white that it's kind of accepted as the default/the de facto "normal." Anything that strays from that comes across as weird and mildly disquieting just because we're so used to it.
Though for my part, whenever I'm writing a script or a story I base my characters on the races and cultures that I'm most familiar with/people I know which I think is just as important for people to do instead of simply changing an established character or waiting for someone else to do it for me.
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Juice
El Dandy
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I'm the one who raised you from perdition.
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Post by Juice on Aug 2, 2016 18:21:55 GMT -5
This great wall movie with Matt Damon made me so wtf even though im not typically lile that. Same with the Last Samauri. People always bring up the Last Samurai as a topic of white washing which confuses me. Tom Cruise's character WASN'T the Last Samurai, Ken Watanabe was. and the real life people that Tom Cruise's character were loosely based on were white. and the main theme of the movie was that Tom Cruise original reason for being there was to Westernize Japan an that was treated like a bad thing. While that is true it still paints the picture of a heroic white westerner joining the minorities to save the day. On surface level.
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Post by "Gentleman" AJ Powell on Aug 2, 2016 19:05:51 GMT -5
I don't mind it, but when it's done and comes off as pandering, it's a bit daft. Like, the whole Iron Man thing recently, it came off as if they were just being like "SHE'S BLACK! AND A FEMALE! LOOK AT HOW DIVERSE WE ARE!"
I will say though, throw me in for Idris Elba as Bond. Dude's f***ing awesome.
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BRV
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
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Post by BRV on Aug 2, 2016 20:00:21 GMT -5
A lot of people have referenced the 2013 "Evil Dead" remake with a woman cast as the main character and that's a perfect example of the right way to do it. The "Evil Dead" film series has a small yet rabid fanbase and is widely regarded as a cult classic and masterpiece in horror movie circles. If you're going to remake it, and if you're going to fundamentally change the plot, you'd better do it right. And in my opinion, they did, and judging on the response the movie received when it was released - which was largely positive - most believed they gave a proper nod to the film's lineage while also creating a movie that felt entirely new.
If you're going to change a character just for the sake of saying, "Well it's 'Evil Dead'...but now with a woman!" you'd better do a lot more, because all you're doing is pandering to a specific race or gender. And if you're going to change a character, you can't beat people over the head with your message and insult anyone who criticizes it, whether they're justified or not ("Ghostbusters", I'm looking in your direction) because all you're doing is drawing a line in the sand and saying, "This movie is for these people and not for these people," and if you're stupid enough to market your movie that way, you deserve it when the theaters are empty. Above all else, a movie's job is to make money, and by telling a sect of the moviegoing public that they're not welcome is akin to burning a pile of money.
And for what it's worth, I personally don't care if you take a movie that had a black character and remake it starring a white person just as much as I don't care if you take a movie that starred men and replace it with women. All I care about is whether the movie interests me and if the movie is any good. I don't care if that means Andrew Garfield is portraying Thurgood Marshall or if Denzel Washington is playing George Washington. If I want to see the movie and if the movie turns out to be good, I don't care what color your skin or was at any point in history.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2016 0:19:34 GMT -5
Fictional characters its fine as long as the actor is good their race or gender shouldn't matter but hope this trend doesn't spill over into historical flicks or bios, got no desire to see a lady Churchill or a Chinese Muhammad Ali. Although even then you'd only apply it to recent history, casting a movie about Ancient Rome with only Italian actors is probably unrealistic.
Also wish people would show some consistency, on my SM accounts anyway a lot of people who cheered female Ghostbusters and a black Roland being cast were the same ones who lost their temper when Scarlet Johansson was cast in an anime remake.
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Post by Gerard Gerard on Aug 3, 2016 0:29:32 GMT -5
If you're looking at a reason as to why, I'd argue solely based on the fact that it's because Sam L. Jackson makes an infinitely better Nick Fury than anything that might be associated with David Hasselhoff.
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Post by Joe Neglia on Aug 3, 2016 1:01:56 GMT -5
It's just now expected, but why? Is it just for the sake of changing and revamping? It happens so much it almost seems that way Two things converging: 1. Hollywood is remake-happy and they're gonna remake it anyway. 2. Society is finally starting to progress a little more further away from everything automatically being about a white guy.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2016 1:33:33 GMT -5
Scarface was remade with the main character being Cuban played by a white guy. Anyways my take when it comes to characters where there race or the time period and setting they are is a huge part of there character, hey are untouchable and no one else. Like you can't really have a character like Wolverine be black since the dude is like over 200 years old who fought in every American War including the civil war. But you can have Spiderman be black since his character characteristics are that he's a poor nerdy awkward kid from NYC.
When the remake is based on the concept (like a team that captures ghosts) and not on the characters, that's extremely fair game.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2016 1:41:08 GMT -5
Like you can't really have a character like Wolverine be black since the dude is like over 200 years old who fought in every American War including the civil war. Sure you can. African Americans fought in the Revolutionary War. Crispus Attucks, a freed slave, was believed to be the first person killed in the Boston Massacre. African Americans also fought on both sides of the Civil War.
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Post by Stone Cold Eleanor Shellstrop on Aug 3, 2016 1:42:39 GMT -5
Like you can't really have a character like Wolverine be black since the dude is like over 200 years old who fought in every American War including the civil war. Sure you can. African Americans fought in the Revolutionary War. Crispus Attucks, a freed slave, was believed to be the first person killed in the Boston Massacre. African Americans also fought on both sides of the Civil War. And there are black people in Canada, as Wolverine is Canadian.
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Derk!
Hank Scorpio
Yeah, "looks like."
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Post by Derk! on Aug 3, 2016 1:43:12 GMT -5
Changing for the sake of changing is just stupid.
"LOL. THOR'S A GIRL NOW."
That's just silly. (granted, I know nothing behind this change, just using it as an example)
But if done right, it can be a great thing. Take Samuel L. Jackson's portrayal of Nick Fury for example.
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Fade
Patti Mayonnaise
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Post by Fade on Aug 3, 2016 1:51:21 GMT -5
I cannot wait for the "Kill Bill" remake, "Kill Jill".
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2016 1:55:11 GMT -5
Like you can't really have a character like Wolverine be black since the dude is like over 200 years old who fought in every American War including the civil war. Sure you can. African Americans fought in the Revolutionary War. Crispus Attucks, a freed slave, was believed to be the first person killed in the Boston Massacre. African Americans also fought on both sides of the Civil War. I guess I should of made it more clear that Wolverines character is a character that never faced any racial prejudice that shaped him into his becoming. He's that loner who keeps everything to himself and prefers not taking sides prefering to remain anonymous unless he's been confronted or has to do the right thing. Basically the intimidating guy in the shadows. A better X-Men example I should of used would of been Magneto a Jewish Holocaust survivor who saw the worst of what humanity can do who ironically becomes just as evil as Hitler. Even though in a few more decades we may have to change Magnetos origins to fit with the current event time period. Kind of like how The Punisher is a veteran of the Iraq war instead of the Vietnam War.
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