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Post by Alice Syndrome on Sept 11, 2016 6:42:56 GMT -5
In terms of UFC freak show slash gimmick fighters, is Punk a better or worse get than "Lights Out" James Toney? Punk is the "Pro wrestling vs. MMA!" 38 year old rookie No actual fights of any kind. Plenty of stiff pro wrestling matches. Nearly 20 years of pro wrestling. Fought an up-and-coming prospect (Mickey Gall) Was instantly taken down and submitted in the first round Immediately released following the loss. Toney is the "Boxing vs. MMA!" 42 year old MMA rookie Multi-year boxing career. No wrestling experience. More than 20 years of boxing (72-6-3 at the time) Fought a legitimate MMA Legend (Randy Couture) Was instantly taken down and submitted in the first round Immediately released following the loss. Toney was worse. Clearly his camp taught him precisely zero ground game. Once he was in no position to punch anyone, he just pretty much laid there until he got choked out. Punk actually had some ground defense for a minute or two. Plus, I think Toney was legitimately expecting to win, Punk looked like "yeah, kinda knew that was coming"
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Post by Tea & Crumpets on Sept 11, 2016 6:59:34 GMT -5
The gap between trained and untrained is massive. CM Punk didn't suck, Mickey Gall is just that good. He's been training over a decade. Of COURSE he'd kill Punk. He'd kill a lot of the guys they put him in there against. I train. I am a mediocre BJJ and judo student. I teach classes part time for newbies and beginners. I don't suck, but I'm not very good. I don't think of myself as tough, but I have seen the gap before. I have seen tough, athletic, brave people come in and still get dummied. Even people who aren't totally new. The mockery of Punk bothers me. It's the first time in my life where I'm going "If you did this, you'd understand how hard it really is." which is something I HATE when wrestlers say. If nothing else, this fight gave me a lot to think about. This is a very good post. I've trained in martial arts for knocking on 10 years now. I sure as hell wouldn't call myself good. But you definitely do notice a difference between beginners and experienced fighters, heck you even notice a difference when out of practice - I went without training regularly for a long time and I've slipped massively, meanwhile a guy who I used to be better than kept training consistently and is now miles ahead of me. I've dabbled in BJJ and boxing with a guy who is a very experienced boxer and he'd thrash my arse, he was fairly inexperienced at BJJ however still had an edge on me and it showed when we sparred. Experience and training frequently is so so important. Everyone expected Punk to get thrashed, he was. It's not surprising. The only disappointment for me is that he did act a bit disrespectful at times. I'm a firm believer that no matter what your experience level, personal opinion of the other guy, whatever, you should still have a level of respect and discipline about you. It's the thing I hate about UFC in general tbh. But Punk was no worse than a LOT of the UFC fans (cue that gif of JUST BLEED guy), and survived longer than they would. He got thrashed, and shouldn't fight in UFC again, but I still respect him for giving it a go and trying to prove himself at that level when he's still young and relevant enough to have the chance to. I just hope he does modify his attitude a bit afterwards.
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Post by MrElijah on Sept 11, 2016 7:19:16 GMT -5
I'm not an MMA expert, and I'm sure someone will correct me(hell I want you to), but I don't think is normal for Punk to move like he's from Street Fighter II.
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Post by xCompackx on Sept 11, 2016 7:20:46 GMT -5
Yeah, I have no problem with Punk wanting to try something; props to him for giving it a shot. It's just this weird attitude he started showing that made him come off as a huge prick. And to be honest, seeing Punk lose was kind of the draw for this fight; most people knew it was happening and it was a "Well, how long will it go?" kind of thing.
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Post by Alyce: Old Media Enthusiast on Sept 11, 2016 7:28:02 GMT -5
![](http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/038/787/4d4.jpg) More or less.
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canal
Samurai Cop
Posts: 2,173
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Post by canal on Sept 11, 2016 7:35:40 GMT -5
I don't know if it's just because I see it over and over, but Punk's shuffle across the Octagon makes me crack up laughing. "So this is what arthritis looks like" Just from his footwork you can see his hips, knees, and ankles are in horrible shape. So there goes striking, and avoiding takedowns. He'd have to be Crossfit Jesus on the ground to be passable, and he is not.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Sept 11, 2016 7:48:48 GMT -5
I'm not an MMA expert, and I'm sure someone will correct me(hell I want you to), but I don't think is normal for Punk to move like he's from Street Fighter II. Not normal, Gall said that punk would forget everything he was thought by Duke once the octagon door closed. That Punk hadn't developed enough muscle memory to remember everything that he was supposed to do. Chael Sonnen in his podcast said that you really start getting comfortable fighting after your third fight, that he couldn't even hear what his corner was saying in his first fights because he was so nervous.
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Post by MrElijah on Sept 11, 2016 8:01:58 GMT -5
I'm not an MMA expert, and I'm sure someone will correct me(hell I want you to), but I don't think is normal for Punk to move like he's from Street Fighter II. Not normal, Gall said that punk would forget everything he was thought by Duke once the octagon door closed. That Punk hadn't developed enough muscle memory to remember everything that he was supposed to do. Chael Sonnen in his podcast said that you really start getting comfortable fighting after your third fight, that he couldn't even hear what his corner was saying in his first fights because he was so nervous. Ah, that explains things. Props to Punk for trying but for his health he just needs to stop.
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Post by The 1Watcher Experience on Sept 11, 2016 8:12:16 GMT -5
This fight went as I expected it to. Many people are saying let's give him credit for getting in there. Ok. I give him as much credit as I give Ludvig Borga for getting choked out in his only UFC match too. It's pretty much the same thing, except he didn't get the money Punk got. Punk deserves more credit for getting that much money out of UFC.
Everybody has a price and I guess 2 million is Punk's price because this is what people will remember Punk for now. People will always post gifs from the fight and Punk's messed up head from the fight whenever his name comes up now. That's what 2 million got him. It's tarnished his brand and his legacy, if he even cares about that. I would imagine he does with his ego.
That ego is going to be taking some shots for years to come now. I could see WWE having their commentators say things like "Don't be a punk!", "He just got punked!" or "He got punked out!" in the very near future when someone loses or is about to lose. WWE wouldn't want him now. He's damaged goods to them.
Brock took a big risk getting back in there but he won and then he went on to crush Randy Orton at Summer Slam. I would have to imagine the outcome would've been very different if Brock lost his UFC match. Maybe Brock was leveraging his spot. If the fight didn't work out, he could walk away from the WWE since he didn't seem too happy with them at the time anyway. If he won, the boost in his credibility would mean he'd move up in the company. Maybe Punk figured if he'd win he could have a well paying career where he works a few times a year. If he lost, he'd have 2 million to comfort him.
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Post by "Gentleman" AJ Powell on Sept 11, 2016 8:12:21 GMT -5
I'm not here to shake hands I'm here to punch faces. Generic pro wrestling Heel stuff basically. Wow, that's it? I mean, did Gall disrespect him at any point leading up to the fight? Did Punk's first venture into an actual sport start with him throwing respectable sportsmanship out the window? Does refusing to shake hands happen a lot at these weigh-ins? Gall did talk a lot of shit before the fight, but Punk was Punk and said a lot of stupid shit too. Basically, I think he was just trying to heel it up.
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dav
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 6,053
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Post by dav on Sept 11, 2016 8:12:46 GMT -5
After watching Punk actually fight:
Yeah...
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Sept 11, 2016 8:14:38 GMT -5
Watching the post fight stuff has me curious if Punk was being honest with himself about his lack of skills/training in comparison to Gall going in. It's hard to tell, given that he keeps things close to the vest, and could have just been talking big in the lead up; but even in stunning defeat he said something along the lines of being 'better than that'.
Clearly he has improved in the two years in training, but just as clear is that he's not at the level of even someone as skilled as Gall yet. The rest of the UFC would likely destroy him even easier. I wonder if he's putting a brave face on things, or if he honestly convinced himself he was right and 98 percent of anyone else watching was wrong. I.E. did he talk himself into believing he was at that level, and did no one in his life kind of temper that for him?
Cuz I think that's one thing missing from the whole: 'Never let someone tell you no.' thing. You do have to be realistic with yourself as well. Some things you just aren't going to be good at, especially later in life, especially with only minimal amounts (I know two years, but it's relative) of training.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Sept 11, 2016 8:14:57 GMT -5
Not normal, Gall said that punk would forget everything he was thought by Duke once the octagon door closed. That Punk hadn't developed enough muscle memory to remember everything that he was supposed to do. Chael Sonnen in his podcast said that you really start getting comfortable fighting after your third fight, that he couldn't even hear what his corner was saying in his first fights because he was so nervous. Ah, that explains things. Props to Punk for trying but for his health he just needs to stop. Everyone involved in this fight should be arrested for attempted murder. Can somebody seriously tell me that Punk should've even been cleared to fight? When the commission had its doctors do a check out, didn't they found his multiple knee injuries and multiple multiple concussions? Or the fact that he cracked his skull years ago? I hope he won't develop CTE but he keeps this up and the rest of his life will be a living hell.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Sept 11, 2016 8:19:40 GMT -5
Watching the post fight stuff has me curious if Punk was being honest with himself about his lack of skills/training in comparison to Gall going in. It's hard to tell, given that he keeps things close to the vest, and could have just been talking big in the lead up; but even in stunning defeat he said something along the lines of being 'better than that'. Clearly he has improved in the two years in training, but just as clear is that he's not at the level of even someone as skilled as Gall yet. The rest of the UFC would likely destroy him even easier. I wonder if he's putting a brave face on things, or if he honestly convinced himself he was right and 98 percent of anyone else watching was wrong. I.E. did he talk himself into believing he was at that level, and did no one in his life kind of temper that for him? Cuz I think that's one thing missing from the whole: 'Never let someone tell you no.' thing. You do have to be realistic with yourself as well. Some things you just aren't going to be good at, especially later in life, especially with only minimal amounts (I know two years, but it's relative) of training. He believed his own bullshit. He has huge expectations for himself. If you watched his first sparring ever in the documentary he actually thought that he would defeat the guy and got pissed afterwards he got murked. He strikes me as a guy who doesn't take adversity well, that tends to blame others for his failures. Noticed that he won't blame himself for the way his wwe career ended. He also don't mind burning bridges if he feels people won't support him all the way.
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canal
Samurai Cop
Posts: 2,173
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Post by canal on Sept 11, 2016 8:30:45 GMT -5
In terms of UFC freak show slash gimmick fighters, is Punk a better or worse get than "Lights Out" James Toney? Punk is the "Pro wrestling vs. MMA!" 38 year old rookie No actual fights of any kind. Plenty of stiff pro wrestling matches. Nearly 20 years of pro wrestling. Fought an up-and-coming prospect (Mickey Gall) Was instantly taken down and submitted in the first round Immediately released following the loss. Toney is the "Boxing vs. MMA!" 42 year old MMA rookie Multi-year boxing career. No wrestling experience. More than 20 years of boxing (72-6-3 at the time) Fought a legitimate MMA Legend (Randy Couture) Was instantly taken down and submitted in the first round Immediately released following the loss. At least James Toney is a professional competitive fighter that would of beat Randy Couture in a boxing match. That's why Dana White made him fight Randy Couture an accomplished wrestler who is one of the smartest fighters of all time without an ounce of fighting ego who knows or wouldn't dare to try in fighting James Toney in a standup game. Gall knew Punk would pwn him in a pro wrestling match, so he stayed away from the collar-and-elbow tie up. Then later on Punk was going for a test-of-strength lucha spot on the ground but Gall didn't bite. Big Props to Mickey on his Octagon IQ.
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Post by Confused Mark Wahlberg on Sept 11, 2016 9:44:03 GMT -5
Gall: "Punk, you're too selfish! That's why I took your leg out from under your...leg"
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Sept 11, 2016 9:52:51 GMT -5
This one was the best one I've read on Twitter.
"CM Punk's speech inspired me...to never fight in the octagon"
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
Better have my money when I come-a collect!
Posts: 28,073
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Post by chazraps on Sept 11, 2016 10:04:37 GMT -5
Wow, that's it? I mean, did Gall disrespect him at any point leading up to the fight? Did Punk's first venture into an actual sport start with him throwing respectable sportsmanship out the window? Does refusing to shake hands happen a lot at these weigh-ins? It usually always turns fans against you if you do it. People did it with Rousey when she refused to touch gloves with Holm. Punk probably knew exactly what he was doing. Punk really should have shook hands. If you're entering any sport, especially one that's relatively new and still somewhat having trouble getting a considerable amount of people to think it's a sport, you show sportsmanship. Otherwise it makes everything look bad, especially with all the new eyes he probably put on UFC/MMA.
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魔界5号
Hank Scorpio
No. 1 FAN Poster You Want To Hug
Posts: 6,331
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Post by 魔界5号 on Sept 11, 2016 10:09:25 GMT -5
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Sept 11, 2016 10:09:26 GMT -5
so do we get Punk vs Jason David Frank (the green ranger) now?? That dude is what 45 now. He's been doing martial arts at least 35 years. You don't want to see Punk get murdered do you?
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