Marvel's Iron Fist

[Bub (BLM)]

Mar 25, 2017 23:21:24 GMT -5 Lazy peon said:

Also I must say I'm getting pretty tired of the "no killing" thing that every superhero show seems to have now. Like it's good if it's a major part of their character like Batman and Daredevil, but it's pretty repetitive hearing "you don't need to do this!" "if you kill him, you're no better than he is!" crap on every show.

save_us.PUNISHER

Except his show has Karen Page in it, so you know she'll be spewing that cliche in his face.

[Ryback on a Pole!]

I'm close to the end of the season and it's alright.

The fight scenes are disappointingly shit and half-assed which is problematic for a martial arts themed show. Madame Gao and Colleen Wing are great and I also quite like Harold Meecham's story arc. I liked the twist about the dojo where they took Madame Gao to be kept, that was good.

I find the complaints that they should have cast an Asian as Danny to be weird. Why? Because he's a character that does martial arts? Isn't assuming that because he does martial arts he should be Asian a bit racist too?

Anyway, got 2 or 3 episodes left. So far it's been an alright if unspectacular show.

I'll rate them.

Daredevil #1
Jessica Jones
Daredevil #2
Iron Fist
Luke Cage

[Capt Lunatic]

I'll say...

Every scene of Daredevil S2 that had The Punisher
Daredevil S1
Jessica Jones
Iron Fist
The rest of DD S2
Luke Cage(only one I never finished)

[Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!!]

Mar 25, 2017 23:21:24 GMT -5 Lazy peon said:

Also I must say I'm getting pretty tired of the "no killing" thing that every superhero show seems to have now. Like it's good if it's a major part of their character like Batman and Daredevil, but it's pretty repetitive hearing "you don't need to do this!" "if you kill him, you're no better than he is!" crap on every show.

save_us.PUNISHER

as a guy well versed in the Wildstorm comics universe where the entire conceit was that people with superpowers take the law into their own hands all the time and nobody can do anything about it I'll respond with this; trust me, you may THINK this would be a good thing but it is absolutely the last thing you want. because it's not a far leap for them to start being like "well I'l kill this guy because he's a murderer" to "well this guy is selling drugs so I'll kill him" to "I disagree with this guy's socio-political opinions so..." and it just gets worse from there.

[Confused Mark Wahlberg]

I have such a dirty mind watching this show

"You have to use the fist!"

"The fist won't work!"

[chrom]

Remind me to never party with Scythe

If this had a movie budget, we could've seen the Bride's full powers

[Cela]

On the last episode. I don't hate this series so much as I hate all the Netflix Marvel series. Since they know people will just binge it, they have no need to make each episode gripping. They are all so dull, and plodding, and forgettable. Yet I keep watching because I want the shows to be good. But, 3 months later, I can't remember the plot to any of the seasons.


Also, dear god, you could make a drinking game for every time a character says "Killing is wrong!" in a situation where killing is absolutely the best option.

[Bub (BLM)]

Mar 26, 2017 10:00:24 GMT -5 Capt Lunatic said:

I'll say...

Every scene of Daredevil S2 that had The Punisher
Daredevil S1
Jessica Jones
Iron Fist
The rest of DD S2
Luke Cage(only one I never finished)

Luke Cage was boring as f***. And again, you had awesome actors who were great in their roles being given shitty scripts.

[Confused Mark Wahlberg]

None of these Marvel shows have 13 episodes worth of story.

Think how tight it would be at 8 or 10 eps. But nope, has to be 13.

[The Heartbreak TWERK]

I finished it.

It was eh okay.

Daredevil Season 2
Jessica Jones
Daredevil Season 1
Iron Fist
Luke Cage

I still need to finish Luke Cage.

[Confused Mark Wahlberg]

I didn't hate the series or anything, but this Finn Jones guy is just dull and unmemorable to me.

[Malibu Albino]

Mar 27, 2017 2:05:54 GMT -5 Cela said:

Also, dear god, you could make a drinking game for every time a character says "Killing is wrong!" in a situation where killing is absolutely the best option.

Yeah, they do the same thing in this show with people saying "we need to call the police" and then Danny just handwaves away the situation with like "they wouldn't understand." It happens like 4 times throughout the show.

[Long A, Short A]

Mar 25, 2017 20:38:27 GMT -5 Bub (BLM) said:

So, consensus seems like fire that fight coordinator.

I don't know if I would go that far. However, I'm weary of whoever thought it was a good idea to give someone that isn't proficient in martial arts a smooth fifteen minutes to learn the fight choreography for the scene they are going to film.

I finished Iron Fist a few days ago and I don't see myself re watching the first season of this show. This is the first Marvel Netflix show I've watched where the length of the season and the pacing messed with me. Claire Temple and Colleen Wing were the only characters I liked. My Amazon fire stick didn't even want me to watch this show at first.

[Ryback on a Pole!]

Yeah I hate the whole "killing him/her will make you as bad as them" trend.

No, it really won't. It annoys me and my wife when we watch TV shows because as soon as it happens we know the guys going to show up and f*** things over for the hero.

I want a Marvel television hero who only kills when necessary. Kinda like how Giles was mostly a good guy on Buffy but had no problem killing Ben because he realised it was too dangerous to let him live.

["Trickster Dogg" James Jesse]

Finished this tonight.

It's... still not good. It's not terrible, but it's barely even competent. But, there are so many things about this show that could be good, but they're never given the weight, attention, or consideration they deserve.

For example, the show could have made some interesting comments about corporate culture given all the Meachum family drama in ways that were similar to how Daredevil approached the problem of gentrification or how Jessica Jones dealt with PTSD or how Luke Cage dealt with being black in America. This thread is sort of developed, but only to move characters around where the story needs them to be in order for the plot to unfold.

This show also touches upon the relationship between cults and families, within which child abuse becomes a serious problem and is used to keep family members within a cult-like logic. The show only hints at these things given the histories of Danny, Colleen, and the Meachums, treating these topics more like window dressing than actual themes worthy of exploration.

If the writing, the cinematography, the choreography, and the narrative stayed the same, and yet an Asian actor played Danny Rand, the show wouldn't be any better for it. Although I do think that a better showrunner or a better team of writers could explore the ramifications of an Asian-American Iron Fist in ways that would give new directions for characters to go.

But even then, Danny being white could have been taken up in the show in terms of privilege, in terms of race, class, and gender, especially given the kinds of relationships he has with other people. As is, in the show Danny is presented more as a Great White Dope than he is a Great White Hope. And the show comments on his dopiness, how much out of his element Danny is as the Iron Fist, but only to lampshade the structural problems the show has (the choreography, the lack of prep time, and Finn Jones' limitations as a physical performer of martial arts).

Jones isn't terrible, he can actually be charming at times in his stoner hipster naive sort of way. But he can only do so much with what he has to work with. The show struggles to make clear whether Danny's immaturity is cultural, having grown up in K'un L'un, psychological, having to still deal with PTSD because of his parents' deaths, or a character trait, that he's just so innocent and good-hearted.

But even these problems with the main character could be fixed if the story were told better. What we get of K'un L'un is so brief that when someone refers to it as heaven, I have no idea why they would even think such a thing. I'd almost rather this season be one of two things: a) an Iron Fist origin story that takes place almost exclusively in K'un L'un, that ends with Danny having to leave and go to New York to fight the Hand, or b) a flashback structure that thematizes what's happening in New York by showing us Danny's eventual journey to becoming the Iron Fist.

Furthermore, the show lacks a clear antagonist. Daredevil Season 1 had Kingpin, but there was a video game logic to Matt Murdock working his way through Fisk's lackeys--the Russians, Nobu, Owlsley, Gao, to finally get to the boss himself. Jessica Jones had the Purple Man as the main threat, but also brought in Nuke as the representation of literal toxic masculinty. Luke Cage had Cottonmouth and Diamondback, although most people seem to prefer the former over the latter as a central antagonist. But in Iron Fist, he has about 5-6 major antagonists at different points throughout the show. That's way too many, and the thrust of the narrative falters because there isn't a clear focus of who the biggest source of headache in Danny's life.

Jessica Henwick is probably the best thing about the show. She's stern, she's frustrated, and she sells the expected drama and romance of Colleen Wing in ways that I can believe (even if the motions of Wing's character journey are typical). There's one character who is introduced incredibly late in the run of the show who should have been featured much earlier, but the performer of this character fun to watch because you immediately get his relationship to Danny and how and why he is different. And while the Meachum corporate family drama is a hindrance to the martial arts story that most people wanted, strangely enough, the family is so messed up that it becomes interesting to watch how relationships evolve over time, in which case David Wenham, Tom Pelphrey, and Jessica Stroup really make it work (and more the first two, just because they're given more to do).

The same overall Marvel Netflix problems still apply: too many episodes, not enough money. As such, I hope that a shorter season means that there's money to spread around for SFX for The Defenders. I can't say I'm any more excited for The Defenders than I was before. The mystical ninja stuff has been the biggest drag on these shows so far, because it's such a vague, undefined, and anonymous threat.

And here's an obvious thing: Iron Fist's costume colours are typically green and yellow. Now Luke Cage the show used yellow for its major colour palette, whereas Jessica Jones used purple and blue, and Daredevil has used red, blues, and blacks. Where the hell were all the greens on Iron Fist? Even the dull blue-gray of the opening title sequence could be kicked up with some saturated green swishes. Again, something as simple as this lack of design choice makes me think that the care, the thought, the dedication, and the effort on the part of Scott Buck, the showrunner, just wasn't there.

[Mackenzie Gorn]

I'm so beyond done with Claire just eating up time in these. The whole show she's acting like all of this is crazy WHEN SHE HAS LITERALLY SEEN THESE f***ING NINJAS BEFORE!

[Ryback on a Pole!]

Harold is an idiot.

Why frame Danny? OK, so he wants the company for just his family. But why frame and subsequently piss off a guy who has super powers and just took down a branch of the hand?

Danny's heart obviously isn't in business and he's stupidly naïve. Just talk him into selling his shares in the company to concentrate on using his skills to protect others.

That way Harold gets the company, he doesn't piss off Rand, Rand never finds out about his parents and he's also got a super powered ally he can use if needs be for protection.

His end plan was so idiotic.

[Cela]

Mar 28, 2017 8:47:08 GMT -5 Ryback on a Pole! said:

Harold is an idiot.

Why frame Danny? OK, so he wants the company for just his family. But why frame and subsequently piss off a guy who has super powers and just took down a branch of the hand?

Danny's heart obviously isn't in business and he's stupidly naïve. Just talk him into selling his shares in the company to concentrate on using his skills to protect others.

That way Harold gets the company, he doesn't piss off Rand, Rand never finds out about his parents and he's also got a super powered ally he can use if needs be for protection.

His end plan was so idiotic.

Harold was never shown to be what people would call... rational. See the strange case of the ice cream scene.

[Dub H]

Mar 28, 2017 10:31:55 GMT -5 Cela said:

Mar 28, 2017 8:47:08 GMT -5 Ryback on a Pole! said:

Harold is an idiot.

Why frame Danny? OK, so he wants the company for just his family. But why frame and subsequently piss off a guy who has super powers and just took down a branch of the hand?

Danny's heart obviously isn't in business and he's stupidly naïve. Just talk him into selling his shares in the company to concentrate on using his skills to protect others.

That way Harold gets the company, he doesn't piss off Rand, Rand never finds out about his parents and he's also got a super powered ally he can use if needs be for protection.

His end plan was so idiotic.

Harold was never shown to be what people would call... rational. See the strange case of the ice cream scene.

Plus, Harold isn't the empathic type.I doubt he can see Danny simple view of not caring about loads of cash and business.

Mar 26, 2017 0:10:11 GMT -5 "Trickster Dogg" James Jesse said:

Mar 25, 2017 23:21:24 GMT -5 Lazy peon said:

Also I must say I'm getting pretty tired of the "no killing" thing that every superhero show seems to have now. Like it's good if it's a major part of their character like Batman and Daredevil, but it's pretty repetitive hearing "you don't need to do this!" "if you kill him, you're no better than he is!" crap on every show.

save_us.PUNISHER

The Punisher is the same problem from the opposite end. What's Frank Castle going to do about problems like socioeconomic inequality or systemic violence--shoot it?

Luckily for The Punisher he doens't care about that.

The Punisher punishes people that did extremely wrong stuff. He is just there to well,Punish, he doesn't care much about the consequences or how society adjusts itself.

[Dub H]

I would rank

1-Jessica Jones
Iron Fist(pure bias)
Daredevil Season 1
Luke Cage

Daredevil Season 2