Someone fill me in on Aces and Eights.

[segaz]

I have never quite understood the angle with this group. It';s been called a masterpiece and it's been called stale and predictable. How did this group come about and what was their demise? Where they handled better storyline wise than other factions like the NWO or the Corporation?

[2coldMack is even more baffled]

Basically, it was, much like the nWo, a really interesting concept that got dragged out way far beyond any reasonable expectation to hold the crowd's interest.

[SAJ Forth]

nWo with Bikers. Bully Ray in charge, and D'Lo became #F---ingDLo

[Gerard Gerard]

Dec 11, 2016 15:26:03 GMT -5 2coldMack is even more baffled said:

Basically, it was, much like the nWo, a really interesting concept that got dragged out way far beyond any reasonable expectation to hold the crowd's interest.

Indeed. It began at Slammiversary 2012, its leader wasn't revealed until Lockdown 2013 and it didn't have any proper conclusion until BFG 2013. A whopping 14 months of angle for what, at best, had 6-7 months of content.

Also, the initial idea of Gallow, Knux and whatnot as imposing outsiders was kinda undermined as soon as the likes of Wes Brisco and Bischoff Jr got into the fray. All due respect to both men, but when the words "badass biker dudes" circulate in my head, Bischoff and Brisco are the least likely to come associated with it.

I did, however, quite enjoy they had Bully Ray painstakingly explain away any plothole as soon as he was revealed as president. It's an attention to detail that isn't always afforded in the grappling game. Given A&8s have essentially become meme-fodder and a punchline to any "TNA hostile takeover" joke, it's worth remembering they actually debuted during TNA's most consistent period quality-wise and there was initially lot of intrigue as to the faction's direction, given how well done their immediate beatdowns were booked.

But, yeah, there are something that it's hard to focus too heavily on the positives without thinking also how much of a wheezing bag of nothing they became.

[silent7]

Before any member was revealed I remember at least 20, maybe 30 of them riding in when they were finally allowed access. Was there ever any explanation for why there were so many of them before they were revealed, yet only 7 or 8 after they were revealed?

[BorneAgain]

Aces and Eights was frustrating because I really liked a lot of the set-up of the angle, and how Bully's (fairly logical) plan for the group was eventually revealed. The problem was that BFG 12 to Lockdown 13 really felt like it dragged and Devon just couldn't carry the position as leader of the group for that long. Then after Lockdown the group soon felt weak, with Ray's reign interrupted by Sabin's uneventful title win, and the others really falling into JTTS status.

Hogan and Sting struggling with the group for the first couple of months, and then after Slammiversary recruiting some TNA guys to deal with them as a backdrop to the BFG series in the summer might have worked. As it was they fell from mildly interesting invaders to biker punchline real quick.

[Chainsaw]

It's been called a masterpiece?!

[bob]

great theme



originally it was a cool thing.....but it just dragged on and on and on like The Authority

[cabbageboy]

Aces and Eights was like watching the NWO filtered through the lens of early 90s USWA. More rednecky, cheesy, and the big reveals would have been like lower midcard WWF guys visiting during that cross promotion angle.

I think this angle more than any just sucked the life out of TNA in the long run. It went on entirely too long, the reveals were largely junk, and by the time it was over you could sense TNA was tanking big time. The angle did NOT end at BFG 2013 however. It ended a few weeks later on Impact when Anderson beat Bully Ray to finally blow it off. It was amusing watching AJ Styles reinvent himself as this weirdo redneck version of Sting, and this was basically his last notable work in the company.

[chrom]

When you have Garrett Bischoff and Wes Brisco in your stable you know you suck. I'd take Yujiro, Owens, and Bone anyday of the week over those clowns.

[Oh Cry Me a Screwball]

I hope they didn't strain their mental faculties coming up with this unique finishing move.

[Hulkshi Tanahashi]

Dec 11, 2016 18:51:54 GMT -5 Chainsaw said:

It's been called a masterpiece?!

Seriously!? Who are these deranged people that bestowed the title of "masterpiece" on this angle?

[chrom]

Dec 11, 2016 20:17:49 GMT -5 Hulkshi Tanahashi said:

Dec 11, 2016 18:51:54 GMT -5 Chainsaw said:

It's been called a masterpiece?!

Seriously!? Who are these deranged people that bestowed the title of "masterpiece" on this angle?

People from sites we're not allowed to say.

[Rave]

I remember that shitty Garett/Brisco Gut Check and Al Snow "mysteriously" disappearing so D'lo had to judge...and then having to wait several more months for them to reveal that D'lo was in with them.

I remember Angle being the dumbest person on the planet and doing that stupid thing where someone unmasks someone and just sits on the info instead of telling anyone.

I remember Carrot not covering his wrist tattoos and outing himself long before he was s'posed to as a result.

I remember them bringing back Devon AGAIN. He was still bad.

I remember Taz's already awful commentary being made even worse as he started shoehorning in awful group references.

Save for Bully Ray continuing to be possibly the best heel around at the time, it dragged on and on and it sucked.

[Lazy peon]

Dec 11, 2016 18:51:54 GMT -5 Chainsaw said:

It's been called a masterpiece?!

I'm sure Josh Matthews has called it that.

[chrom]

And the thing is, they was teasing a feud within between Anderson and Gallows only for Gallows' contract to expire during it and TNA doesn't even attempt to resign him and he goes on to New Japan.

The middle of your big angle and you just let a guy up and walk away?!

[BlackoutCreature]

Dec 11, 2016 20:17:49 GMT -5 Hulkshi Tanahashi said:

Dec 11, 2016 18:51:54 GMT -5 Chainsaw said:

It's been called a masterpiece?!

Seriously!? Who are these deranged people that bestowed the title of "masterpiece" on this angle?

I remember when I was at WrestleMania 29 in New Jersey on line waiting to get into an Axxess session and there were a couple of people in the line speaking very positively of Bully Ray's recent reveal as being the secret leader of the group and his promo that explained their motives and actions since they first appeared. Apparently at some point their fanbase was genuinely interested in the angle. I'm sure this quickly changed.

[Urethra Franklin]

I think with big, ambitious angles like Aces and Eights, you need at least a working idea of the end game. It's a must.

Take a look at Lost. It quickly generated a lot of buzz and interest with all of the weird mysteries surrounding the island and the backstories of the characters. Then, it treaded water for a couple of seasons with meandering storylines because the show lost its way.

It was only when JJ Abrams announced an end date for the show when things got back on track. The writers knew exactly what they were building towards and geared everything in that direction (now, whether or not they were successful is up for debate).

TNA never knew how they wanted to end things with Aces and Eights and that's why things went off the rails.

[Douglas]

I'm just very thankful we ended up with this segment:

[bob]

Dec 11, 2016 18:51:54 GMT -5 Chainsaw said:

It's been called a masterpiece?!

I have no doubt Bischoff is still convincing himself the idea was pure genius