Futureraven: Beelzebruv
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
The Ultimate Arbiter of Right And Wrong
Spent half my life here, God help me
Posts: 15,033
|
Post by Futureraven: Beelzebruv on Jan 5, 2017 10:12:12 GMT -5
Also related to the second fight  Helping to drive home the point of Force Users not just being guys with nifty swords and a few tricks but flat out wizards, as the Emperor did not use nor need a Lightsaber in the original trilogy. I was fine with him having and using one in Revenge, but I like lightning being his thing, especially since he liked torturing them with it. I'm on the side of neither the Emperor nor Yoda should have had Lightsaber fights, I like them being above the need for weapons, they just had so much force power. Also, a minor Emperor thing, how was the decrepit Emperor makeup worse in the prequels? In ROTJ he looked like this old, decaying man, like the evil inside was consuming him, in the prequels he just looked like they put some latex on his face and thought "ah screw it, that'll do", looked really fake to me. |
|
Mozenrath
FANatic
Foppery and Whim
Speedy Speed Boy
Posts: 121,047
|
Post by Mozenrath on Jan 5, 2017 10:16:41 GMT -5
I was fine with him having and using one in Revenge, but I like lightning being his thing, especially since he liked torturing them with it. I'm on the side of neither the Emperor nor Yoda should have had Lightsaber fights, I like them being above the need for weapons, they just had so much force power. Also, a minor Emperor thing, how was the decrepit Emperor makeup worse in the prequels? In ROTJ he looked like this old, decaying man, like the evil inside was consuming him, in the prequels he just looked like they put some latex on his face and thought "ah screw it, that'll do", looked really fake to me. Some of it is we just don't get many closeups with him in Return, I feel like. In the prequels, they get much closer to him, in higher res film, and that isn't playing to the strengths of the makeup. He also kept his hood up the entire time in Return, didn't he? It's been a few months since I saw it last, so I am hazy. |
|
mizerable
Fry's dog Seymour
You're the lowest on the totem pole here, Alva. The lowest.
Posts: 23,475
|
Post by mizerable on Jan 5, 2017 10:17:14 GMT -5
Jedi was my favorite when I was a kid like HMark said, it had a happy ending and everything I cared about was resolved. The reason I preferred it to A New Hope was because in ANH, it felt like it took forever to introduce Han, who was my favorite character, although Jedi's timeframe isn't likely far off in terms of introduction. Empire was a little depressing, but as an adult I appreciate it a whole lot more. Still, all 3 original movies are better than anything that came later...in my opinion. I cared about the characters, something that I couldn't do with the newer movies. To me, Star Wars is the story of Luke Skywalker and that story is complete. I don't need anything else to be explained, because I got all the real answers I needed the first time.
Anyways, nowadays I know a lot of people give Jedi shit because of certain elements, but those elements never overshadow the important or interesting stuff. Like mentioned, the stuff with Jabba's palace is tense, as it's not an easy rescue. Had it been an easy rescue, it would've rendered Han's capture in Empire to be less worrisome. Also, the lightsaber fight is still the second best next to Empire, fight choreography be damned. I know it's just Luke mostly bashing Vader, but the emotional elements of the two combatants more than makes for a tense scene. It's action with consequence.
Yeah the stuff with the Ewoks isn't my favorite, but it's window dressing for everything else that's happening. The only shit I don't like is how the rebels come off as dicks many times. It's evident elsewhere, but especially in Jedi where Stormtroopers will corner someone like Leia, always trying to take her hostage, yet she usually ends up killing her almost capturers every time. That always felt more cold blooded than the Greedo scene especially since Greedo seemed gleeful over the prospect of Han's death. Oh and at the end of Jedi, they have a big feast and you see the helmets of the Stormtroopers. Where'd they get that meat? Are those the Imperial guards they captured. What a savage thing to do!
|
|
Futureraven: Beelzebruv
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
The Ultimate Arbiter of Right And Wrong
Spent half my life here, God help me
Posts: 15,033
|
Post by Futureraven: Beelzebruv on Jan 5, 2017 10:23:46 GMT -5
I'm on the side of neither the Emperor nor Yoda should have had Lightsaber fights, I like them being above the need for weapons, they just had so much force power. Also, a minor Emperor thing, how was the decrepit Emperor makeup worse in the prequels? In ROTJ he looked like this old, decaying man, like the evil inside was consuming him, in the prequels he just looked like they put some latex on his face and thought "ah screw it, that'll do", looked really fake to me. Some of it is we just don't get many closeups with him in Return, I feel like. In the prequels, they get much closer to him, in higher res film, and that isn't playing to the strengths of the makeup. He also kept his hood up the entire time in Return, didn't he? It's been a few months since I saw it last, so I am hazy. He does keep it up, but we do see it pretty close up a few times, like when Luke goes to cut the Emperor and Vader blocks it. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2017 10:46:53 GMT -5
Also, a minor Emperor thing, how was the decrepit Emperor makeup worse in the prequels? In ROTJ he looked like this old, decaying man, like the evil inside was consuming him, in the prequels he just looked like they put some latex on his face and thought "ah screw it, that'll do", looked really fake to me. Because in 1983, Emperor Palpatine was probably just an old evil man, so the makeup was for that and that's easy enough. I'll assume it was decided later in the '90s that Palpatine was at some point horribly disfigured (the DARK EMPIRE comics established that he was a clone whose bodies wore out because of his Dark Side powers, thus it seems like there was never a plan in place before the prequels), so that JEDI look was now one of an old disfigured man. That'd make his REVENGE OF THE SITH look a bit awkward because they needed to establish a freshly disfigured look for a man who'd go on to look the way he did in JEDI. |
|
|
|
Post by A Platypus Rave on Jan 5, 2017 10:55:07 GMT -5
Also, a minor Emperor thing, how was the decrepit Emperor makeup worse in the prequels? In ROTJ he looked like this old, decaying man, like the evil inside was consuming him, in the prequels he just looked like they put some latex on his face and thought "ah screw it, that'll do", looked really fake to me. Because in 1983, Emperor Palpatine was probably just an old evil man, so the makeup was for that and that's easy enough. I'll assume it was decided later in the '90s that Palpatine was at some point horribly disfigured (the DARK EMPIRE comics established that he was a clone whose bodies wore out because of his Dark Side powers, thus it seems like there was never a plan in place before the prequels), so that JEDI look was now one of an old disfigured man. That'd make his REVENGE OF THE SITH look a bit awkward because they needed to establish a freshly disfigured look for a man who'd go on to look the way he did in JEDI. They still did keep the Dark side literally eats away with you as well in supplementary materials post prequels too...so it's some kinda column a/column b thing. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2017 10:56:58 GMT -5
Because in 1983, Emperor Palpatine was probably just an old evil man, so the makeup was for that and that's easy enough. I'll assume it was decided later in the '90s that Palpatine was at some point horribly disfigured (the DARK EMPIRE comics established that he was a clone whose bodies wore out because of his Dark Side powers, thus it seems like there was never a plan in place before the prequels), so that JEDI look was now one of an old disfigured man. That'd make his REVENGE OF THE SITH look a bit awkward because they needed to establish a freshly disfigured look for a man who'd go on to look the way he did in JEDI. They still did keep the Dark side literally eats away with you as well in supplementary materials post prequels too...so it's some kinda column a/column b thing. Oh, they did? Very nice. Any idea where? (I'd check Wookieepedia, but Wikia and its penchant for dozens of ads have kinda killed any fun encyclopedia site that's not Wikipedia) |
|
|
|
Post by A Platypus Rave on Jan 5, 2017 11:00:30 GMT -5
They still did keep the Dark side literally eats away with you as well in supplementary materials post prequels too...so it's some kinda column a/column b thing. Oh, they did? Very nice. Any idea where? (I'd check Wookieepedia, but Wikia and its penchant for dozens of ads have kinda killed any fun encyclopedia site that's not Wikipedia) Off the top of my head The Old Republic MMO (which was canon originally) had dark side corruption. the more dark side choices you chose you eventually would physically change, like your eyes would change yellow, you'd get black veins on your face and you'd turn pale the further into the darkside you got. no idea if it shows up in any of the "New" canon yet though. |
|
pegasuswarrior
El Dandy
Three Time FAN Idol Champion
@PulpPictionary
Posts: 8,748 
|
Post by pegasuswarrior on Jan 5, 2017 11:14:28 GMT -5
I used to (used to) get really ticked if someone tried to rank them. They're a collective saga. They're one and the same echoing each other's brilliance. New Hope isn't New Hope without V and VI and vice versa. I don't get as upset about it now because internet has just made saying anything and everything commonplace.
It's always a race to make a big deal out of something no one thought was a big deal to argue.
But yeah, original post. One of cinema's best action moments for me. You covered it perfectly. And I love the space sequences in Return of the Jedi so much.
|
|
Woo
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 5,279
|
Post by Woo on Jan 5, 2017 11:39:52 GMT -5
So we all love the first half an hour in Jabba's palace and most of us love the ending and I am sure we all like the speeder bikes in the middle. So we really don't dislike much at all in this movie!  Speaking of the emperor I was stunned that the guy who played this frail old man in the original movies was still alive and wasn't even that old in the prequels! Now that was impressive make-up. I need to look into this Useless Han meme, never heard of it before. |
|
|
|
Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Jan 5, 2017 11:52:23 GMT -5
Speaking of the emperor I was stunned that the guy who played this frail old man in the original movies was still alive and wasn't even that old in the prequels! Now that was impressive make-up. He was 38 (and a full two years younger than Harrison Ford) when Jedi was filmed, and I was genuinely shocked that he wasn't at least 70. Great makeup work. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2017 11:58:29 GMT -5
My favorite part of the escape is when the lightsaber flies into Luke's hand and he turns it on. I've seen it at least 100 times, and every time I want to jump out of my seat and scream "f*** yeah!" |
|
|
|
Post by HMARK Center on Jan 5, 2017 12:06:34 GMT -5
So we all love the first half an hour in Jabba's palace and most of us love the ending and I am sure we all like the speeder bikes in the middle. So we really don't dislike much at all in this movie! Speaking of the emperor I was stunned that the guy who played this frail old man in the original movies was still alive and wasn't even that old in the prequels! Now that was impressive make-up. I need to look into this Useless Han meme, never heard of it before. "Useless" is an exaggeration, I'll grant you, but some of it stems from Harrison Ford pointing out that Han likely should have died in Empire because his character arc had finished its development. People can disagree on whether Ford was taking it too far in saying Han should be killed off, but there's really no new places that Han's character goes once he's out of carbonite, and the role he played could've gone to nearly any character (in this case just leading the Rebel strike force to the shield generator). |
|
|
|
Post by Fade is a CodyCryBaby on Jan 5, 2017 12:13:45 GMT -5
Sans Ewoks, I love ROTJ.
|
|
|
|
Post by SHAKEMASTER TV9 is Don Knotts on Jan 5, 2017 13:35:09 GMT -5
So we all love the first half an hour in Jabba's palace and most of us love the ending and I am sure we all like the speeder bikes in the middle. So we really don't dislike much at all in this movie! Speaking of the emperor I was stunned that the guy who played this frail old man in the original movies was still alive and wasn't even that old in the prequels! Now that was impressive make-up. I need to look into this Useless Han meme, never heard of it before. "Useless" is an exaggeration, I'll grant you, but some of it stems from Harrison Ford pointing out that Han likely should have died in Empire because his character arc had finished its development. People can disagree on whether Ford was taking it too far in saying Han should be killed off, but there's really no new places that Han's character goes once he's out of carbonite, and the role he played could've gone to nearly any character (in this case just leading the Rebel strike force to the shield generator). It's weird they promoted him to General when he'd been in carbonite for while. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2017 14:50:04 GMT -5
Speaking of the emperor I was stunned that the guy who played this frail old man in the original movies was still alive and wasn't even that old in the prequels! Now that was impressive make-up. He was 38 (and a full two years younger than Harrison Ford) when Jedi was filmed, and I was genuinely shocked that he wasn't at least 70. Great makeup work. Good grief, I thought McDiarmid was at least in his 40's. Which means he wasn't even 60 when the prequels started filming. Wow. |
|
|
|
Post by Kevin Hamilton on Jan 5, 2017 19:36:54 GMT -5
I've said it more than one thread too, the Ewoks are great. Doesn't even count in the 'flaw' category for me.
There's too much great in this movie: Jabba stuff, the Rancor, the speeder bikes, Luke vs Vader for the last time, Emperor, the Ewoks, the assault on the second Death Star...etc.
There may be some pacing issues, and the stakes don't feel as high as Empire sure. There are some clunkier elements like Leia suddenly 'always knowing' that Luke was her bro or stuff that's negated in hindsight like Leia talking about her mother. Han is a little goofier than he should be maybe, stuff like that.
But here's the thing, this one is lighter and happier than the other two because this is a fairy tale (and always was 'A long time ago, in a galaxy far away' straight up IS Once upon a time), and Jedi is where we get to the Happily Ever After.
|
|
andrew8798
FANatic
on 24/7 this month
Posts: 106,084
|
Post by andrew8798 on Jan 5, 2017 19:46:07 GMT -5
Funny thing about the Ewoks are for kids thing. Many forget that they were about to eat the heroes
|
|
|
|
Post by Hassan bin Sober on Jan 5, 2017 19:57:17 GMT -5
Han was a general at the beginning of The ESB.
ROTJ is my favorite Star Wars films, Ewoks and all. Only thing I dislike was the Special Edition musical number. Good lord that is bad.
|
|
|
|
Post by Limity (BLM) on Jan 5, 2017 20:04:15 GMT -5
Funny thing about the Ewoks are for kids thing. Many forget that they were about to eat the heroes I've got no love for the Ewoks in ROTJ, but I absolutely love the two made for tv Ewoks movies. |
|
