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Post by romanstylesiii on Jan 6, 2017 1:53:56 GMT -5
I am sorry, but he's just not on the same level as Miz, AJ Styles, Cena, or Orton.
The most interesting part of his title feud was the brief time when John Cena entered the feud for 3 weeks.
I really liked this guy on the indies, but he can't hold his own with top tier talent. His WWE title reign was boring, his first IC title reign I forgot about, and his US Title reign had no memorable matches at all.
He had a feud with Jericho, and it saw the most interesting act in the company become boring.
The guy strikes out at every chance he gets to do something big.
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Post by Gerard Gerard on Jan 6, 2017 2:01:42 GMT -5
Yeah, I'd say "1B" rather than "2nd tier" as his work with HHH, AJ, Cena, his cash-in and The Shield 3-way showed him a likeable, scrappy mo'fo that had actually worked to establish himself at the top. Legit, some of the best reasons to watch in 2016, but, the wheels somewhat come out from it for the same reason it always does, title or no title:
"this man is a wild, unpredictable force, but 9/10 this translates as wacky, prop-based shenanigans rather than the Cactus Jack gig we're trying to sell you."
A mean streak is a pretty essential part of a lunatic, I feel, and everyone's been kinda half-in on it. Yes, it's difficult to do as a good guy.....that Jericho stuff seems to be poorly received, so I dunno......maybe double-dip his salsa or something....
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ayumidah
Wade Wilson
Don't bother pretending I seem fine, I like that I'm a mess
Posts: 26,998
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Post by ayumidah on Jan 6, 2017 2:05:01 GMT -5
I don't mind him but his moveset annoys me. Especially the "Lunatic lariat". Ugh.
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Johnny
Don Corleone
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Post by Johnny on Jan 6, 2017 2:14:04 GMT -5
Maybe...he's just a 2nd tier babyface. I think he's just been miscast since the shield split.
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MolotovMocktail
Grimlock
Home of the 5-time, 5-time, 5-time, 5-time 5-time Super Bowl Champion 49ers-and Wrestlemania 31
Posts: 13,967
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Post by MolotovMocktail on Jan 6, 2017 2:18:38 GMT -5
Ambrose is someone who really shouldn't be doing scripted promos. Not letting him really be himself has hamstringed him a bit. One of my fantasy booking scenarios has Shane turning heel on him (picking up from Shane getting increasingly frustrated when he kept sneaking back into the arena the night Ellsworth won his contract), costing him at the Rumble. He would then mention the disrespect, shabby appearance and unpredictable things that come out of his mouth, and lamenting that it's Stone Cold all over again, which would lead to an Ambrose/Shane match at Wrestlemania.
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Post by Hit Girl on Jan 6, 2017 2:37:21 GMT -5
I don't think anyone is 1st tier talent in WWE anymore.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2017 2:37:59 GMT -5
If Ambrose is 2nd tier talent so is the Miz lmao.
That dude has never had a great and memorable match.
Ambose has had several. I agree Ambrose isn't bringing it at the level he's presented at, but The Miz has been mediocre for years.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2017 2:39:12 GMT -5
Sounds like you're counting Ambrose out for things not under his control. Most of what you're saying he couldn't do a thing about such as his feuds.
You're naming guys like Cena, Styles, Miz and Orton who have way more freedom compared to Ambrose. Cena's Cena, he can say what he wants. The others are heels and it's known they have way more freedom than faces. Ambrose also said months ago that he just started getting some leeway into what he can say and he was already champion by then. A big problem is that he isn't really allowed to do what he wants to do and it's not just Ambrose, it happens to most wrestlers, mostly faces. Look at Rollins and how he's fizzed out. Look at Styles when he was a face during the first part of the year compared to how he was when he turned heel. Now you look at Ambrose, a guy they've had as a face since the Shield turned, the lead face on SD since Cena's been gone so he's been out to be in the "lead face of the brand role" like Cena usually does with less freedom than Cena. A guy like that just needs way more freedom. You can get on him for his wrestling and all but his character, what he can do, all of that is limited.
As for his matches, look at every Ambrose match the past year on ppv.
RR, LMS vs Owens - Great match Fastlane vs HHH - Great match WM vs Lesnar - Bad match, reported that Lesnar shot down every Ambrose idea, couldn't work with Lesnar Payback vs Jericho - Pretty good match ER, Asylum vs Jericho - Average match, reported to have the guys add 10 extra minutes to their match to fill up time hence why it was so long. If you cut the time in half and had experimented on the match before (given it was the first time they've done it), it would have been much better MITB, Ladder Match - Great match BG, Shield Triple Threat - Great match SS vs Ziggler - Average match BL vs Styles - Great match NM vs Styles and Cena - Great match SS match - Great match TLC Match vs Styles - Amazing match
It's ok to not like Ambrose but I think people have just forgotten what matches he's been in. His "great match" ratio's pretty high. The problem is because they don't like some of his moves or his booking (or like the wrestler he's against) he doesn't get the credit for it. A match is 50/50. Both guys deserve credit.
In the ring, it depends on who he's against. Anytime he's with Owens, Styles, Cena, Rollins, anyone who's great the match is great, Trips is an example too. Anytime he's not with someone great it varies due to the fact that he's a face and his style's more heel suited. Besides that, you saying his first IC reign isn't memorable but the reality is that Owens feud was the only feud he had with that title and it was very memorable. He and Owens were tearing it up on SD and they had that amazing LMS match. It was the best match on that RR card last year.
But to sum it up, a lot of what you're mentioning he can't really do anything to stop it until they let him turn heel or have more freedom. He's never been a single's heel star on the main roster but in FCW, where he was one, he was highly praised. We gotta wait it out.
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Post by Bear Skin Rug on Jan 6, 2017 2:56:34 GMT -5
In The Shield, was second-to-none at begging off babyfaces and that "oh shit" look when it was time to get destroyed. He's fine as a cool face, but he'd be Tier 1 as cowardly heel.
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Dub H
Crow T. Robot
Captain Pixel: the Game Master
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Posts: 47,852
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Post by Dub H on Jan 6, 2017 2:57:50 GMT -5
Nah man,he is A+ as it gets. The only times he looked B+ is when he had his legs cut like the Brock Lesnar match.
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mrbananagrabber
King Koopa
Paul Heyman's unofficial joke writer
Posts: 11,803
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Post by mrbananagrabber on Jan 6, 2017 3:09:28 GMT -5
Well this is the most I've disagreed with a thread this year.
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MAGGLE
Dennis Stamp
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Post by MAGGLE on Jan 6, 2017 3:18:47 GMT -5
Like his promos, like his personality...matches are boring. Unfortantely thats like 90% of the roster for me now.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Jan 6, 2017 3:21:21 GMT -5
Considering The Shield are The Guys instead of one guy I would disagree.
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Post by häšhtå.gdālėÿ on Jan 6, 2017 3:33:39 GMT -5
I totally disagree. The most well deserved main eventer of The Shield. And I say that as a former massive Rollins fan... How they botched his return so badly is beyond me.
His matches are fine, and when he hits his mark in a promo he is one of the best in the company. No one gets me more pumped than a good Dean Ambrose promo.
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Mozenrath
FANatic
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Post by Mozenrath on Jan 6, 2017 3:36:23 GMT -5
I haven't really made secret of the fact I enjoy Roman more (in terms of offense, not speaking on booking of course), but I think Dean has continued to justify his push. I like him, and his Dusty Rhodes impression is f***ing fantastic.
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LuchaBella
Team Rocket
No pants = heathen
Be careful with me.., it's not a threat, it's a warnin'
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Post by LuchaBella on Jan 6, 2017 3:43:55 GMT -5
Dean is getting stale I feel. I dont know what it is. I dont know if its the whole lunatic thing that feels all played out, his move set, his attitude and fueds, I dont know. I felt that way about the Miz for the longest time, but his run with the belt, his fueds and bringing Maryse into the fold kind of revived him for me. Hopefully something does that for Dean.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2017 4:18:32 GMT -5
His run to the top came at the worst timing. He was cutting some his best promos and was carrying himself as a legit star but he had the misfortune of running into a red hot AJ Styles so he had to drop the belt early. After Wrestlemania he's going to have a really good second run with the belt I'm sure. I don't think he's that great in the ring but I do believe he's one of the best promo guys and conveys his character better than most of the talent. Like he's easily The Shield guy with the most amount of potential based on that alone. Unless Ryan Ward can write Roman Reigns as a heel or a out of f***s Tweener who has clock in and clock out mentality that openly resents the fans that boo him for doing his job, I still think Ambrose is the one with the most upside.
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Pushed to the Moon
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Tony Schiavone in Disguise
Working myself into a shoot
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Post by Pushed to the Moon on Jan 6, 2017 6:20:53 GMT -5
I know people have started liking the Miz recently but you can't try and tell me he's on the same level as Cena Orton and Styles. Come on now.
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King Devitt
Grimlock
It gets better the longer you stare at it
Posts: 13,752
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Post by King Devitt on Jan 6, 2017 6:33:52 GMT -5
He calls Cena a lazy part timer.
And in my head I was thinking, "dude you're a lazy full timer."
his match with AJ was the last straw for me. If not for AJ selling his ass off and making Ambrose look like a million bucks it wouldn't have been that good.
I say this as a fan of his.
As a heel.
He's a horrible face, who is written horribly. Much like Roman Reigns.
Turn both men heel, let them be themselves, let Ambrose show some Moxley and you have your top heel, possibly in the whole company.
As a face, the guy is just going through the motions it feels like. Arrive, do a passable job, if that, throw a shitty rebound clothesline, and leave.
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Post by bearned on Jan 6, 2017 6:39:15 GMT -5
I think if there is one thing that will hold him back it's that he doesn't really carry himself like a main eventer should away from ring. The Stone Cold podcast for example, he just didn't come across as a guy who could be 'the guy' for the company. Not saying that he has to be like John Cena but it would help if he was a bit more marketable than just being a slightly weird dude who you'd probably not want to see in a dark alley.
I will add that I think he is a main event talent, he has the tools (promo and definite connection with the fans) and whilst you wouldn't call him an elite in-ring worker, he is pretty great at what he needs to do for the crazy guy gimmick.
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