Weaker installments in a franchise that fanbases trash fans

[Deleted]

For actually liking.

Every major franchise has it's weaker moments and things that, in general, are frowned upon, but I have found that if you like something that the general consensus thinks is garbage, guess what? You're a piece of garbage for liking​ it.

Obviously, there are common examples (the Matrix sequels, Episodes I to III of Star Wars, 2 Fast) where they are isolated and often bickered at to the point where people deliberately retcon them from their psyche.

But, there's more I found.

Personally, I like Gundam Reconguista in G, which I know is a mess, but it's the series that gave me what I wanted in the franchise. But, because it was a mess and didn't have enough killing, it's an abomination. And I'm an abomination for liking it.

Any other examples of fanbases bringing out the worst of themselves towards their own?

[Cela]

I loved Pirates of the Carribean 3. Everyone tells me I'm wrong.

[Jiren]

Alien 3 & Resurrection

Alien 3 i find "meh" (All versions) but I genuinely enjoy Resurrection, Sure it's silly but it's fun

[Fundertaker]

Personally, I like Gundam Reconguista in G, which I know is a mess, but it's the series that gave me what I wanted in the franchise. But, because it was a mess and didn't have enough killing, it's an abomination. And I'm an abomination for liking it.

No, it was a mess because it was pure Tomino "let's get this explanation over with" for the first few episodes in between small frames of plot and horrible pace, followed by a whole lot of "nothing is actually accomplished" until the end of the series. I think people love G Gundam for what it is and there's like... 2 deaths in the whole series? I mean, sure, younger fans like that because they like edges and falling off them, but for older fans they might have only reference that because there was a whole lot of nothing happening in the series. It is still better than the hot mess that was AGE that had WAY too much going on (seriously, they needed 3 25 episode seasons at least to get that over with smoothly).

Well, me and a certain French-lucha-cat-loving guy will say FF8 here, btw. But I'll add a controversial one: New Super Mario Bros. Wii is my favourite 2D Mario game.

[Mozenrath]

Apr 26, 2017 13:05:18 GMT -5 Jiren said:

Alien 3 & Resurrection

Alien 3 i find "meh" (All versions) but I genuinely enjoy Resurrection, Sure it's silly but it's fun

Ryder and Perlman make Resurrection for me.

[Push R Truth]

I stopped by to see my nephew and he was watching DBZ with a couple buddies (ages 18-19). I said something about how I loved DBZ back when the Raditz/Sayan/Freeza saga was on Cartoon Network for the first time.


The next 10 minutes were spent with them all mocking me because I liked "some shitty dub".


Whatever nerds. I'm just going to walk home and play Lord of the Rings Online, alt-tab to post on a pro wrestling message board and catch up on Stranger Things.

[Heeltown, USA]

I think the most obvious answer is The Phantom Menace.

I mean I personally feel its hot garbage, but some people like it.

I'll throw out Rocky V for discussion. Whereas IV is glorified as the best, I feel that was the culmination of the story becoming cartoon like. Three wasnt much better.
Five's story and characters are closer to the original than all of them, its what makes it great.

[Raskovnik]

I don't personally think they're weaker but the two that immediately come to mind for me are Dark Souls 2 and Resident Evil 6. Dark Souls has that obnoxious fanbase that for a long time refused to even acknowledge that Dark Souls 2 was a good game because they put the first on a pedestal despite it only being half of a great game. It's like their memories stop at Anor Londo. Not that I blame them because I'd like to forget the bullshit that comes after too, but it has to be taken into consideration. 2 doesn't have the atmosphere, bosses, or areas as memorable as the first one, sure, but it's all the way good, i.e. the levels and bosses are consistently enjoyable and it's infinitely repayable with way more build variety and orders in which to complete the areas as it starts off non-linear before eventually becoming linear. I spent much more time with 2 and enjoyed it a lot more, yet people used to shit on me all the time for having that opinion.

As for Resident Evil 6, it's just a f***ing joy to play, especially with a friend. I get that it's not a horror game but if you build a bridge and get over it it's such a fun game in a vacuum. I get real sick of this revisionist history where people pretend RE4 was a horror game because the first ten minutes were a horror game before you get a briefcase full of weapons and mow down hordes of Spaniards. 4 is in my top ten of games because it's brilliant fun, don't get me wrong, but before RE7 gave people another game that was a horror game (for at least a couple hours, anyways) people were complaining about the focus on action that the latest installments had while pining for the good old days of scary RE4, the last good Resident Evil title that did the series justice, where you purchased rocket launchers from a mysterious merchant, literally suplexed monks, and rode jet skis to escape from exploding islands.

[The Heartbreak TWERK]

Apr 26, 2017 14:20:11 GMT -5 Push R Truth said:

I stopped by to see my nephew and he was watching DBZ with a couple buddies (ages 18-19). I said something about how I loved DBZ back when the Raditz/Sayan/Freeza saga was on Cartoon Network for the first time.


The next 10 minutes were spent with them all mocking me because I liked "some shitty dub".

Sub snobs are the worst kind of people.

[DiBiase is Good]

Apr 26, 2017 14:43:38 GMT -5 Heeltown, USA said:

I think the most obvious answer is The Phantom Menace.

I mean I personally feel its hot garbage, but some people like it.

I'll throw out Rocky V for discussion. Whereas IV is glorified as the best, I feel that was the culmination of the story becoming cartoon like. Three wasnt much better.
Five's story and characters are closer to the original than all of them, its what makes it great.

Rocky IV is glorified as the best?

[Dr. T is an alien]

The Phantom Menace was just off the mark. Had I been in charge, these are the changes I would have insisted to Lucas:

- Padme/Amidala needs to be a little older. She is an elected ruler, so her entire planet is a little stupid for electing a 12 year old. Sure, the prime minister handled most day to day stuff but she clearly had real authority regarding planetary decisions, so someone given that kind of power should be older regardless of their traditions. Besides, Natalie Portman did not look like she was 12 anyways.

- Anakin needs to be older as well. Not only does it make the eventual relationship with Padme less creepy, it negates some of the drag his character provided.

- Anakin needed to be a more complex character. I would have had him generally good hearted but with a bit of cockiness and recklessness to him.

- I also would have insisted on a scene after they initially fail to procure the part from Watto where Qui-Gon, Padme, and Jar-Jar are accosted by thugs (led by a young Greedo, perhaps). Now, the movie's rating would have prevented me from suggesting that they are targeting them to sell Padme into slavery to Jabba, but that is not that critical a point anyways. What would have been important is that Anakin interferes by using a rudimentary mind trick on the gang to suggest they leave the heroes alone (I would have Padme and Jar-Jar be affected by the trick as well as Anakin does not have the training to actually target a specific person and therefore affects all in the alleyway but Qui-Gon). THIS is how I would have had Qui-Gon get interested in Anakin's potential. I would even have this exchange in it:

Qui-Gon: What you just did was use the Force to affect their minds to make them do what you wanted them to do.

Anakin: Yeah, I don't think so. If I actually had that ability don't you think I would have made Watto set my mother and I free?

Qui-Gon: He's a Toydarian. Even experienced Jedi have trouble using the Force on them that way.

Anakin: ........[to himself] Well, that explains it.


- Jar-Jar would have been different. He would have been less clumsy and more severely socially awkward. His reason for being banned from his home is that he does not know when to not speak his mind and offended the hell out of Boss Nas. He could also be a bit more martially competent and less cartoonishly afraid of everything.

- Anakin would not accidentally join the space battle, accidentally fly into the hanger, and accidentally destroy the power core of the TF ship. He have done all of those things intentionally (more or less). He would have also intentionally done something during the pod race to cause Sebulba to crash rather than it be incidentally caused (maybe toss a spare battery into the connector currents to cause the engines to decouple).


Beyond all of that, I think the rest was a decent foundation of a good movie that was simply not executed well. I don't mind the stupid reason for the embargo, siege, or invasion of Naboo. It was always supposed to be on the shakiest of grounds anyways. Otherwise, they could not be the bad guys of the movie. The only other real change I would have liked to have done if I had that power would have been to shot and edited the pod race to look more like it was one really long take shifting back and forth between the racers. I think that would have cranked up the action, though what they did was fine enough.

[BayleyTiffyCodyCenaJudyHopps]

Apr 26, 2017 12:55:01 GMT -5 Cela said:

I loved Pirates of the Carribean 3. Everyone tells me I'm wrong.

Pirates 1 and 3 I think are tons of fun. Dead Man's Chest is ok, and On Stranger Tides dragged a lot.

[BayleyTiffyCodyCenaJudyHopps]

Apr 26, 2017 13:10:09 GMT -5 Fundertaker said:

Personally, I like Gundam Reconguista in G, which I know is a mess, but it's the series that gave me what I wanted in the franchise. But, because it was a mess and didn't have enough killing, it's an abomination. And I'm an abomination for liking it.

No, it was a mess because it was pure Tomino "let's get this explanation over with" for the first few episodes in between small frames of plot and horrible pace, followed by a whole lot of "nothing is actually accomplished" until the end of the series. I think people love G Gundam for what it is and there's like... 2 deaths in the whole series? I mean, sure, younger fans like that because they like edges and falling off them, but for older fans they might have only reference that because there was a whole lot of nothing happening in the series. It is still better than the hot mess that was AGE that had WAY too much going on (seriously, they needed 3 25 episode seasons at least to get that over with smoothly).

Well, me and a certain French-lucha-cat-loving guy will say FF8 here, btw. But I'll add a controversial one: New Super Mario Bros. Wii is my favourite 2D Mario game.

Mario Wii is controversial? I loved it and I thought the general consensus was that it was great.

Also, to the OP: I still enjoy the Sonic Adventure games for the most part, though I can see the flaws. But if people are calling you an "abomination" for liking a cartoon, they're the ones with the problem.

[Fade]

Star Wara Prequels were trash. And inferior in every capacity to the nostalgic TFA. Except in "world building" which is an argument i still don't get.

Matrix sequels were inferior to the classic first one.

Pirates sequels were dull and bloated compared to the classic first one.

Big ones I can think of.

[Koda, Master Crunchyroller]

I enjoyed the hell out of Tokyo Drift, the red headed stepchild of the Fast and Furious franchise.

[BorneAgain]

While its impossible to get anything to a consensus on the ST films from Trek fans, I will say Search for Spock is probably my 2nd favorite after Wrath of Khan (though I haven't yet seen ST: Beyond yet, so maybe the order will change).

[Fundertaker]

Apr 26, 2017 15:36:54 GMT -5 BayleyTiffyCodyCenaJudyHopps said:

Mario Wii is controversial? I loved it and I thought the general consensus was that it was great.

It's great on its own, but when compared to the other 2D entries seems to be ranked more middle of the road or "outright bad" on the very vocal subset of Mario fans that despise the New Super Mario series (which is something I don't really understand, but to each its own). But again, usually people say either the first Super Mario Bros, SMB3 or SMW as their favorites, followed by the SML2, SML3 and NSMBU and then comes the rest.

[Big DSR Energy]

HALLOWEEN III: SEASON OF THE WITCH has built up a cult following over the years, but for a long time you couldn't mention liking "the one without Michael" without getting into an argument with somebody.

[Jiren]

- Mario Sunshine - Is it the best game in the franchise? No, But it's still good
- Batman Forever & Batman & Robin - I'd rather watch them than Begins & Rises
- V for Vendetta & Watchmen (Movies) - Alan Moore fanboys will tear you a new one if you so much as say you like these (I'm a fan of Moore but I still like the movies)
- Roger Moore era Bond - Sure it was camp but I like it more than the dull Craig era (Casino aside)

Apr 26, 2017 16:51:16 GMT -5 Big DSR Energy said:

HALLOWEEN III: SEASON OF THE WITCH has built up a cult following over the years, but for a long time you couldn't mention liking "the one without Michael" without getting into an argument with somebody.

*Nods in agreement*

[Deleted]

Apr 26, 2017 15:43:39 GMT -5 Fade said:

Star Wara Prequels were trash. And inferior in every capacity to the nostalgic TFA. Except in "world building" which is an argument i still don't get.

Matrix sequels were inferior to the classic first one.

Pirates sequels were dull and bloated compared to the classic first one.

Big ones I can think of.

Well, the thread isn't about bad sequels. It's about fanbases that denegrate those who actually like those.