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Post by Slingshot Suplay on Jul 14, 2017 16:38:53 GMT -5
To Counterpoint: Vince McMahon lost millions of viewers over the years since the Attitude Era with his creativity. Vince Russo as a writer has contributed to ratings increases for WCW and TNA and while they weren't astronomical numbers, they increased. "Success" varies and both were successful in different ways. And personally, I disagree with the whole "filter" thing because McMahon has shown in the years since that he's not a good filter, with the way that the WWE's product has declined in quality. While in WCW, Russo wasn't in charge of anything other that creative, and he had to contend with a S&P department that didn't give him guidelines and had talent with creative control that wasn't on board with creating new stars. What we got on tv was a result of the backstage struggles, egos and politics that festered in WCW and Russo didn't even have enough time to get half way through his story because they breached his contract. I'm sure the former TNA talent were speaking from their perspective, but I'm also sure that they weren't privy to a lot of info and that a lot of the info they heard was second hand. Remember, guys like cornette, dutch, Hogan and bischoff worked with Russo at different times during his tenure, and these guys hated russo. But Russo was only head writer from july 2009 to 2011, worked in a committee beforehand and Hulk and Bischoff had hands on the product from late 2009 onward. But EVERYTHING that was bad was written by Russo while the good stuff was from everyone else? I find that hard to believe. Dixie brought him back secretly in 2011. He was told not to tell anyone and to deny it if asked. He's said before that it was a mistake on his part to accept the job under those conditions, but he needed work, so he did it. When it was uncovered, he was blasted as a liar when he was just following orders and TNA distanced themselves because of the Spike deal. It was bad all around, but he didn't go insulting TNA and Dixie, he just told his side of the story. If you listen to his podcast, he has accepted responsibility for mistakes and communication failures and has put over Cornette, Dutch, Hogan and Bischoff for their success and knowledge in the business. But at the same time, he has had to defend his decisions, viewpoints and work because of the false narrative that does exist about him, his work and success, partly because of the same people. I agree wholeheartedly that Vince makes stupid statements. Very hard headed and a lot of times doesn't think before speaking. However, these "confirmed" labels simply aren't true, that's based on opinion. 1. Regarding filter, Vince McMahon without Russo: still in business. Russo without McMahon: wcw and TNA, finally unemployment. 2. WCW bad creative still happened in his watch. He will always be associate as one of the people who killed the company alongside Bischoff. 3. He was part of creative starting at the end of 2006. Why is it that the talent that leaves TNA blame him and only him for burying them and hurting their careers? It's only hearsay if a couple of people bury him, not almost everybody who worked there. 4. He buried Dixie after being exposed as a liar. He even approached destination America and pop tv and buried TNA to them. 5. I will never waste time listening to his podcast because of his racist statements. 6. Ok he's a confirmed liar because he has been exposed by Mike Johnson. He's a confirmed racist because in the depositions of the wcw lawsuit it was told by Kevin Sullivan and the African American talent that he used racial epithets to address them. He's a confirmed xenophobe because of his own statements and how he treated talent that were born outside the states. Magnus said that Russo told him that it was hard to book him because he was British. We also have the Mexican talent in the lawsuit. He's a confirmed homophobe because of his statements against gay people in his own podcast. He said that being gay is not normal. He's a confirmed transphobe because he made fun in his personal twitter account of Caitlyn Jenner. He's a confirmed mysoginist because of his own personal statements in his podcast that women aren't apt to lead because they come from man's rib. It's not a matter of opinion. The man has made public statements that disparage minorities. It's an undisputed fact. He can make excuses in his podcast all he wants but the statements still exists. It's not "stupid" statements, it's hateful bigotry 1- russo isn't unemployed, he's got a successful podcast. 2- wcw was already in a downfall before he got there and he never got the chance to change the culture. 3- the people who blame him echo the same sentiments of people who were anti-russo. I find it more than a coincidence. 4- i disagree that he buried dixie, it was more telling his side because she told him to deny. He still lied in this situation, because he was told to, but lied nonetheless, so I'll concede that. 5- as far as the wcw suit is concerned, i don't know much about it, so I'll have to look into it. As far as the xenophobia and magnus, magnus was on the podcast and they already hashed that out as a misunderstanding because vince was sarcastically joking and magnus didn't get it. As far as the homophobia and transaphobia, it's not homophobic to disagree about whether its normal or not, it's his opinion. He's worked with gay, lesbian and transgender performers and office people and didn't treat them any different because of his beliefs. However, i really don't want to go any further into this pandora's box.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Jul 14, 2017 17:00:03 GMT -5
1. Regarding filter, Vince McMahon without Russo: still in business. Russo without McMahon: wcw and TNA, finally unemployment. 2. WCW bad creative still happened in his watch. He will always be associate as one of the people who killed the company alongside Bischoff. 3. He was part of creative starting at the end of 2006. Why is it that the talent that leaves TNA blame him and only him for burying them and hurting their careers? It's only hearsay if a couple of people bury him, not almost everybody who worked there. 4. He buried Dixie after being exposed as a liar. He even approached destination America and pop tv and buried TNA to them. 5. I will never waste time listening to his podcast because of his racist statements. 6. Ok he's a confirmed liar because he has been exposed by Mike Johnson. He's a confirmed racist because in the depositions of the wcw lawsuit it was told by Kevin Sullivan and the African American talent that he used racial epithets to address them. He's a confirmed xenophobe because of his own statements and how he treated talent that were born outside the states. Magnus said that Russo told him that it was hard to book him because he was British. We also have the Mexican talent in the lawsuit. He's a confirmed homophobe because of his statements against gay people in his own podcast. He said that being gay is not normal. He's a confirmed transphobe because he made fun in his personal twitter account of Caitlyn Jenner. He's a confirmed mysoginist because of his own personal statements in his podcast that women aren't apt to lead because they come from man's rib. It's not a matter of opinion. The man has made public statements that disparage minorities. It's an undisputed fact. He can make excuses in his podcast all he wants but the statements still exists. It's not "stupid" statements, it's hateful bigotry 1- russo isn't unemployed, he's got a successful podcast. 2- wcw was already in a downfall before he got there and he never got the chance to change the culture. 3- the people who blame him echo the same sentiments of people who were anti-russo. I find it more than a coincidence. 4- i disagree that he buried dixie, it was more telling his side because she told him to deny. He still lied in this situation, because he was told to, but lied nonetheless, so I'll concede that. 5- as far as the wcw suit is concerned, i don't know much about it, so I'll have to look into it. As far as the xenophobia and magnus, magnus was on the podcast and they already hashed that out as a misunderstanding because vince was sarcastically joking and magnus didn't get it. As far as the homophobia and transaphobia, it's not homophobic to disagree about whether its normal or not, it's his opinion. He's worked with gay, lesbian and transgender performers and office people and didn't treat them any different because of his beliefs. However, i really don't want to go any further into this pandora's box. Well successful podcast would be calling it a stretch but I'll defer to you if it's successful or not. Here's a list of people who worked with Russo in TNA and had unpleasant experiences: Samoa Joe, Young Bucks, Kazarian, Jay Lethal, Christopher Daniels, Sonjay Dutt, amongst others, of that list some of them didn't got along with Cornette like Joe and the Bucks, so that contradicts your argument that they echoed sentiments of people who disliked Russo. Russo has been on the record burying Dixie as a failed leader despite the fact that she kept him employed when nobody else would. It's not homophobic to say that gay people are not normal?? Also he has treated performers differently because of the color of their skin and where they were born. That is a fact that was proven in court.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Jul 14, 2017 17:15:52 GMT -5
Here is what Vince Russo said about fans chanting for wrestlers, I don't think it's an opinion,
"You’re either a) homosexual—okay, you like men, for you to react this way, you have to like men—b) you’re either not homosexual but have homosexual tendencies, or c) you’re in the closet. It’s that simple, bro, because men do not react to other men that way. It’s not a normal function.”
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Post by aka Cthulhu on Jul 15, 2017 0:18:15 GMT -5
This is completely off-topic and unrelated to anything, but you two who have been posting here recently have such similar looking avatars that it looks weird.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Jul 15, 2017 1:22:46 GMT -5
This is completely off-topic and unrelated to anything, but you two who have been posting here recently have such similar looking avatars that it looks weird. JBL wishes he looked like Tully. Even at 60 Tully is in better shape than Bradshaw.
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Jul 15, 2017 7:32:10 GMT -5
Tully being one of Bradshaw's victims, JBL running him down loudly and in public when the WWE hired him as a road agent because of some perceived slight he suffered when he was a rookie, because there's nothing that Bradshaw hates more than people who are mean to rookies.
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Post by Chainmail Freak on Jul 25, 2017 15:02:10 GMT -5
We are all getting worked bro. Russo and Cornhole are actually best friends and they are just fighting for our attention so they can draw us to their podcasts and make a buck bro.
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wankah
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,388
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Post by wankah on Jul 25, 2017 17:22:24 GMT -5
The whole Russo v Cornette idiocy reminds me of all the other stupid feuds that never lead to anything like Axl Rose v Vince Neil, Liam Gallagher v Robbie Williams and all the other similar all talk no walk bullshit media circuses.
Only in this case these guys haven't even got a proper media as a platform for their little attention whoring sideshow..
It's funny in a way that both of them go by the same gimmick of going against the internet, although in different ways, but still. They both apply the same tactic in getting attention for their product. Only whenever there isn't enough material for that week to slam the indy darlings or other IWC favourites they'll have a go at each other and expect people to take it seriously - even after all these years of them keeping their hatred going and nothing concrete has ever come out of it. They even worked together in the same company for few years after they started to "hate" each other's guts for f***'s sake. Bloody tossers the both of them.
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Post by 111111 on Aug 5, 2017 11:27:03 GMT -5
If Vince Russo is such a genius then why is 1999 the year where he clearly had the most creative freedom in the Attitude era so terrible and why is 2000 (after he left) probably the best year of television the WWF has ever produced?
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wankah
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,388
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Post by wankah on Aug 5, 2017 11:46:52 GMT -5
Got 15 minutes to waste? Wanna feel confused after wasting it? Great, click on the link below! youtu.be/YdYjUyqkWJQBet there's a thought of why the hell did I watch this rubbish in your head in the end.
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
Better have my money when I come-a collect!
Posts: 28,017
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Post by chazraps on Aug 5, 2017 13:50:50 GMT -5
Vince Russo is a dumb out-of-touch racist.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Aug 5, 2017 14:08:30 GMT -5
15 minutes of Vince Russo?
Nah man life's too short to be wasting it.
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Post by thegame415 on Aug 11, 2017 12:32:11 GMT -5
Russo recently said he wanted OJ Simpson to take a lie detector test on WCW PPV.
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Post by James Fabiano on Aug 11, 2017 12:57:45 GMT -5
This is completely off-topic and unrelated to anything, but you two who have been posting here recently have such similar looking avatars that it looks weird. JBL wishes he looked like Tully. Even at 60 Tully is in better shape than Bradshaw. Last I saw Tully, he had the stuffing beat out of him. Oh...not That Tully?
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Post by corndog on Aug 11, 2017 15:53:23 GMT -5
Russo recently said he wanted OJ Simpson to take a lie detector test on WCW PPV. Everyone wanted to see that at the time(people still want to see it), it's a no brainer. Pulling it off would have been the hard part.
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Post by CubsFan71 on Aug 11, 2017 22:26:52 GMT -5
Here's a thought: How f***ed up were Russos ideas that McMahon was his filter?
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Aug 12, 2017 1:22:26 GMT -5
Here's a thought: How f***ed up were Russos ideas that McMahon was his filter? According to Bruce Prichard some of the ideas that got vetoed were, a ho in a pole match and OJ Simpson vs Fred Goldman in wm 13.... yeah. When he returned in 2002, he wanted to vacate all the belts and have tournaments, he also asked if Jericho and Triple H ever worked together, they had just worked in wm 18, Russo barely lasted the week.
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Mozenrath
FANatic
Foppery and Whim
Speedy Speed Boy
Posts: 121,204
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Post by Mozenrath on Aug 12, 2017 1:40:21 GMT -5
Here's a thought: How f***ed up were Russos ideas that McMahon was his filter? According to Bruce Prichard some of the ideas that got vetoed were, a ho in a pole match and OJ Simpson vs Fred Goldman in wm 13.... yeah. When he returned in 2002, he wanted to vacate all the belts and have tournaments, he also asked if Jericho and Triple H ever worked together, they had just worked in wm 18, Russo barely lasted the week. Didn't he also admit he wanted to do ANOTHER WCW invasion? Like, he told people that, expecting to look like the reasonable party. WWE can be accused of many things, some more deserving than others, but they know the InVasion was a goddamn mess, and they've buried it hard. Like, to the extent that right after it, Austin was face, Angle was a heel, and it was virtually unspoken that it had been otherwise less than a month prior.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Aug 12, 2017 1:49:24 GMT -5
According to Bruce Prichard some of the ideas that got vetoed were, a ho in a pole match and OJ Simpson vs Fred Goldman in wm 13.... yeah. When he returned in 2002, he wanted to vacate all the belts and have tournaments, he also asked if Jericho and Triple H ever worked together, they had just worked in wm 18, Russo barely lasted the week. Didn't he also admit he wanted to do ANOTHER WCW invasion? Like, he told people that, expecting to look like the reasonable party. WWE can be accused of many things, some more deserving than others, but they know the InVasion was a goddamn mess, and they've buried it hard. Like, to the extent that right after it, Austin was face, Angle was a heel, and it was virtually unspoken that it had been otherwise less than a month prior. The invasion pitch I think it's true and Russo even recycled it on a guest booked shoot ugh vomit. Bruce said that Russo in the meeting pitched Eric Bischoff against Shane. Basically in the meeting Stephanie had no time for Russo's bullshit and the fact that he didn't even do his homework about the current wwe storylines angered Vince McMahon. Before the meeting Russo was brought in as head of creative, Heyman and Hayes along with Brian Gewirtz and the other writers were gonna work for him, but after that horrific pitch Russo got demoted from head of creative to consultant to the point were he was sent home and was told to work from there and mail ideas to then get fired, all within a week. In the span of one week Vince Russo went from a high executive position were he was McMahon's right hand man to getting fired and return to tna with his tail tucked between his legs. He actually started with tna that same year but ditched them so he could return to the wwe.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Aug 12, 2017 1:53:44 GMT -5
Didn't he also admit he wanted to do ANOTHER WCW invasion? Like, he told people that, expecting to look like the reasonable party. WWE can be accused of many things, some more deserving than others, but they know the InVasion was a goddamn mess, and they've buried it hard. Like, to the extent that right after it, Austin was face, Angle was a heel, and it was virtually unspoken that it had been otherwise less than a month prior. He wanted to bring in the real stars this time That wasn't gonna work. What Russo wanted would've f***ed months of storylines. The nWo already invaded there wasn't a way to revert time. My impression is that Russo pitched an Invasion but wasn't aware of the past invasion that was booked a year before. Russo didn't kept with the wwe product and that was what f***ed him.
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