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Post by 2coldMack is even more baffled on Dec 14, 2017 10:44:00 GMT -5
I don't mean in the ring. Bell to bell, she's pretty fantastic, but....what is her gimmick, exactly? She's got all this supernatural imagery in her entrance and what have you, but then she hits the ramp and she's just a generic, smiley WWE babyface. What gives with her?
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A damn road sign
Samurai Cop
"What the hell am I? A school crossing?"
Posts: 2,424
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Post by A damn road sign on Dec 14, 2017 11:06:37 GMT -5
Literally had this exact same conversation with a friend the other day. She has a pretty finisher but I’m still confused as to what she’s supposed to be. She has this cool dark, mysterious intro, weird contacts lenses, so just from seeing her vignettes and her debut entrance I was interested. It looked to be something different. But yeah, then the bell rings and she’s just generic fiery babyface 101. The final product doesn’t match the presentation for me at all.
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Square
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Official Ambassador
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Square-Because he looks good at all the right angles.
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Post by Square on Dec 14, 2017 11:11:16 GMT -5
She's a cosplayer
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Post by YAKMAN is ICHIBAN on Dec 14, 2017 11:13:14 GMT -5
Black Sailor Moon with a career shortening finisher
Most wrestler's have just aesthetics more than gimmicks at this point.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2017 11:17:02 GMT -5
Feels like she's a mix of a Mortal Kombat femme fatale and a wrestler. Like say besides Kitana, Mileena and Jade you had a fourth who pins women.
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Post by The Kevstaaa on Dec 14, 2017 11:44:34 GMT -5
That's always been my issue with her. She has no character. She looks cool and has a dope finisher. it's why I'm glad she never beat Asuka and why I wanted Peyton or Nikki to win the title in Houston.
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Post by Magic knows Black Lives Matter on Dec 14, 2017 11:51:58 GMT -5
It's the NXT special.
"this person is a good wrestler and you don't need anything else besides us telling you that they are dope, f*** with them."
Actually, that's the WWE special so what am I even talking about, lmao?
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Post by Slanted and Enchanted on Dec 14, 2017 12:03:29 GMT -5
Eh...basically. She's a great wrestler and has a great look etc.. but she's not fully immersed in her character (whatever it's supposed to be) the same way someone like Peyton Royce and Nikki Cross are. She comes across as a super fan playing wrestler, a really good wrestler, and I don't feel as invested in her. If she's a mystical type of character she needs to go all in the same way Alestair Black goes all in. Or if she's supposed to be a fun and cheery weaboo (which seems to be closest to her actual personality) she should just drop the mystical element and go all in on that.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2017 12:14:23 GMT -5
She is great example of WWE's overall disconnect with certain characters.
They wanna try and be taken serious as legitmet by bringing in MMA folk and touting their real life accomplishments.
But then they wanna try and play in the sandbox and get all special effects and spoopy with characters.
She feels so misplaced and same with Bray Wyatt characters like they in the current E just feel so out of place and I have said it before with similar discussions that have popped up the E is one of many companies that ride that middle ground by trying to be both realistic and cinematic but never dedicating themselves enough to one and then it all comes off as lame.
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Reflecto
Hank Scorpio
The Sorceress' Knight
Posts: 6,847
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Post by Reflecto on Dec 14, 2017 12:42:43 GMT -5
Eh...basically. She's a great wrestler and has a great look etc.. but she's not fully immersed in her character (whatever it's supposed to be) the same way someone like Peyton Royce and Nikki Cross are. She comes across as a super fan playing wrestler, a really good wrestler, and I don't feel as invested in her. If she's a mystical type of character she needs to go all in the same way Alestair Black goes all in. Or if she's supposed to be a fun and cheery weaboo (which seems to be closest to her actual personality) she should just drop the mystical element and go all in on that. Even beyond that character, my big problem with it is that she's probably in the exact middle of "They're [indy darling] (NOT! [WWE name!])" and "they're a new character for NXT/WWE". We've seen top indy women reinvent themselves in WWE (like Bayley/Sasha/Becky, and now Nikki Cross/the Iconic Duo.) We've seen women like Asuka basically being "Yeah, she's KANA, just with a new name for WWE". However, the problem with Ember is that, for lack of a better term, she seems like "She's a ripoff of the indy wrestler Athena, that just so happens to be played by Athena."
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Bobeddy
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Made a Terrible Mistake
Posts: 15,156
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Post by Bobeddy on Dec 14, 2017 12:55:50 GMT -5
That's why I've never been able to really buy into Ember. Can't flaw her in-ring but as a character there's such a disconnect between the presentation and the execution that it just feels confusing. On promos she constantly refers to herself as a warrior and being in battles and putting on a faux-dramatic voice with intense stares, which is fine, but that doesn't mesh with her bouncy peppy entrance and feisty babyface style That's always been my issue with her. She has no character. She looks cool and has a dope finisher. it's why I'm glad she never beat Asuka and why I wanted Peyton or Nikki to win the title in Houston. I actually think Ember's character comes off as weaker for winning the belt. I'd have put the belt on Peyton or Nikki and then let Ember beat them. My reasoning is that Ember had two single matches against Asuka for the belt and lost both, she then wins the belt after Asuka abdicates. Nikki and Peyton had title shots but they were all multi-woman matches. They lost, but there could still be the question of what if it was 1 on 1 (I know they had plenty of single matches with Asuka but none for the title). For me, one of them winning the title in the 4-way doesn't carry as much 'they couldn't beat Asuka' weight cos they never got a solo title shot. I alsi think a lot of the reason I feel this way is that Ember was the last two title matches before Asuka left. Nikki or Peyton winning would've been a fresher start and then Ember beating them feels like a new victorious chapter rather then a limping epilogue.
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Allie Kitsune
Crow T. Robot
Always Feelin' Foxy.
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Dec 14, 2017 13:15:05 GMT -5
I think the problem is that everybody expects her to be some sort of mystical supernatural character because of the "Moon" name and the red contacts, but she's not.
I've mostly been fine with her being "just another wrestler", myself. But I feel like I shouldn't be, since most other people aren't.
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H-Virus
Hank Scorpio
A Real Contagious Experience
Posts: 5,964
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Post by H-Virus on Dec 14, 2017 13:16:07 GMT -5
Imagine if Undertaker did his big elaborate entrance with smoke and lightning and fire and druids and Gregorian chanting, and then he pulls off the hat and coat and suddenly it’s just Mean Mark Callous.
That.
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Post by vinnysimmo on Dec 14, 2017 14:51:53 GMT -5
She neeeeeds to change her finisher. Otherwise her lower back is going to be completely destroyed before long. Ryback only had something siumlar as a finisher for a short period of time but he is still feeling the effects. This kind of bump is also why Hogan has such a bad back.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2017 15:09:43 GMT -5
My biggest issues with Ember Moon are her jumbled mess of a character, just a complete lack of any sort of aura in how she carries herself, and her finisher which is cool the first time you see it but quickly turns into a convoluted mess when she's doing it in every single match. It should be a once-in-awhile super finisher like the top-rope AA or back when Orton's punt, not what she's always using.
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Allie Kitsune
Crow T. Robot
Always Feelin' Foxy.
HaHa U FaLL 4 LaVa TriK
Posts: 46,208
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Dec 14, 2017 15:14:50 GMT -5
Imagine if Undertaker did his big elaborate entrance with smoke and lightning and fire and druids and Gregorian chanting, and then he pulls off the hat and coat and suddenly it’s just Mean Mark Callous. That. I don't know. The announcers aren't really implying that she has any kind of supernatural power. People are just reading that into her themselves, and then getting pissed that she's not that character.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2017 15:23:57 GMT -5
She just loves to entertain and is having fun out there. What’s not to get!?
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Bobeddy
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Made a Terrible Mistake
Posts: 15,156
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Post by Bobeddy on Dec 14, 2017 15:32:22 GMT -5
I don't know. The announcers aren't really implying that she has any kind of supernatural power. People are just reading that into her themselves, and then getting pissed that she's not that character. I don't know, it was pretty overt in her vignettes youtu.be/MATeasFTyUYyoutu.be/XZzZ4jdaicAThat and her promos being packed with pseudo-mystic/fantasy words suggest that there's supposed to be some sort of aspect of that to her.
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Post by Long A, Short A on Dec 14, 2017 18:33:29 GMT -5
Frankly, I'm just happy I don't have to see her play the role as some Cucumber melon ass mean girl. I also think she would come off quite cirny, if she went full haunted house/ATLA extra.
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trollrogue
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Post by trollrogue on Dec 14, 2017 21:03:32 GMT -5
I think the NXT experience specializes in giving Superstars aaaaalmost all of the tools to get to where they need to be on the WWE main roster. Ring presence, promo ability, and some semblance of a gimmick. The missing ingredient, and one NXT Superstars can't really create until after they appear on live TV, is their personality.
Take Jason Jordan, for example. He was always a generic dude with good genetics and superior grappling skills, after shuffling tag team partners he landed onto Gable, who provided the 2 missing elements he needed (promo ability and gimmick as underdog tag team guys). Their charisma and skills rubbed off on each other (Gable's a small guy and needed the big dog as a believability buffer for defeating teams like Heavy Machinery) and they went to WWE Main to find their personality. It turns out during their SDLive run they called an audible and gave Jordan a new gimmick as Angle's son, but just now his personality is starting to be formulated as a bastard SOB who cries to his daddy whenever he loses a match.
Ember Moon is just 'cool' right now, and that's as good as it gets on NXT until you're forced to add that 4th Dimension to your Superstar persona. Alas, a lot of NXT alums are still trying to reach that point, for another example Aiden English JUST got to that point as the Rusev Day bard.
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