Okay, so I don't get Ember Moon...

[Reflecto]

Dec 14, 2017 15:14:50 GMT -5 Allie Kitsune said:

Dec 14, 2017 13:16:07 GMT -5 H-Virus said:

Imagine if Undertaker did his big elaborate entrance with smoke and lightning and fire and druids and Gregorian chanting, and then he pulls off the hat and coat and suddenly it’s just Mean Mark Callous.

That.

I don't know. The announcers aren't really implying that she has any kind of supernatural power.

People are just reading that into her themselves, and then getting pissed that she's not that character.

The big reason for that is less that she "isn't that supernatural character" and more that it just exacerbates all the problems:

If you had to describe her character on paper, she's basically...Paige if she had a really, really cool finishing move. Pseudo-gothic mysterious alternative woman who's actually really happy and peppy and likes to have fun with the WWE Universe.

That's about it. That's the Ember Moon character.

Despite this, when you compare her to the other top names in the division like Nikki Cross and the Iconic Duo, the fact that she has NO character is a glaring problem with her in comparison to her top rivals...and it's not like they're reinventing the wheel with "Generic CRAAAAAAAAAAAAZY woman" and "Lay-Cool 2.0", either...but compared to Ember Moon they're far better characters than that.

Strike one.

And yet, despite this glaring problem, WWE has made it crystal clear that Ember Moon is THE ONE, and THE ONLY ONE. Even Roman Reigns didn't get this much shilling from Day One of his WWE career of WWE making it obvious "Don't even bother with anyone else. THIS IS WHO YOU GET. DEAL WITH IT." as Ember Moon's gotten in NXT since the moment she debuted- and only Roman Reigns in 2017 is even close to the "GIVE UP HOPE. Lesnar's going to destroy EVERYONE you love, and Roman WILL be the one to conquer Roman Reigns...and honestly, we don't even care if you learn to like it anymore, THIS IS HOW IT IS GOING TO BE." Considering that Ember Moon's whole career arc has been built around "She WILL be the one to beat Asuka. She's the ONLY ONE bad enough to take out Asuka. The Eclipse is the ONLY MOVE that can destroy Asuka", and in the process it hindered Ember's growth since both Nikki Cross (as part of Sanity) and the Icons (as comedy heels who could get their heat back even as they get clobbered) could develop without this "Ember WILL beat Asuka" story arc.

Strike two.


...then she didn't.

The Takeover Brooklyn match was as complete and total annihilation as Ember Moon could get in the crux of her storyline could possibly do...and she STILL WON in Houston.

If Ember Moon won cleanly, she was the conqueror who beat Asuka and a worthy champion.

If Ember Moon lost by dirty means like in Orlando, Asuka's afraid of her, and her winning the title is righting a wrong because she SHOULD HAVE beaten Asuka.

Hell, If Ember Moon lost cleanly, BUT DIDN'T HIT THE ECLIPSE IN THE MATCH? She's STILL a viable next champion to Asuka, because the whole storyline is "Asuka knows as well as any of you- if Ember Moon hits the Eclipse, the streak is over and we have a new champion."

But in Brooklyn: Ember lost. Clean. And hit the Eclipse. And Asuka kicked out.

Strike three.

[Rocky Raccoon]

Had a chance to finally win me over after she was attacked from behind and "injured" by Asuka.
The story was there. The motivation was there. All she needed was some decent, believable character work...



Oh. 

We got a smiling, "aww, shucks", eye-rolling doofus, who doesn't sound or act like she cares, and now I don't either.

["Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay]

She is a hilariously weak champion.

Congratulations Ember, you finally won the big one!

...once the previous champion left.

...having given the title up and never been pinned or submitted.

...including by you, because you lost to her twice.

...but hey, seriously, great job with the belt, it looks really neat.

[SirLucas]

When I first heard the name Ember Moon I thought it was going to be a Native American character. The name does seem fitting for a Native American character.

[mrbananagrabber]

I think she’s a classic example of Dusty not being there anymore. He would have made her character work. Hell, he’d have given her an actual character to begin with.

[4real]

She lost me the first time she came out for her entrance. Really dark entrance straight into generic babyface hand slapping. She's never recovered for me.

[Juice]

She honestly needs tocbe a werewolf

[Bobeddy]

Dec 15, 2017 14:35:12 GMT -5 4real said:

She lost me the first time she came out for her entrance. Really dark entrance straight into generic babyface hand slapping. She's never recovered for me.

I had the same reaction, just this massive tone disconnect from day 1.

I wouldn't say she 'lost me' then and there as I kept waiting to see if they'd try and right the course or at least try and tie things together a bit tighter. But it never really happened and I'd say I gave up on them doing anything about it around the time they were building for Takeover Orlando.

[Totorob101]

A heel turn is needed, make her go crazy and it'll work far better

[Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]]

I'm still wondering what Fat One she Sparked...

[OVO 40 hunched over like he 80]

She has a unique look and some charisma, my problem is that I stopped caring about her once Asuka defeated her like a hundred times.

[Perfect Timing]

She's a weird one. I guess you could say she's good in the ring but other than that she doesn't really fit WWE Womens wrestler mold. Not exactly attractive, short and stocky and her biggest drawback is she is awful on the mic.

[abjordans]

Wrestlers are mostly just themselves with costumes and for some reason they walk to the ring all funky these days.

[Susan "Poison" Candy]

Homer: Well, she's not quite an ember and she's not quite a moon... but man (laughs). So to answer your question, I don't know.

[trollrogue]

Dec 15, 2017 4:51:33 GMT -5 "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay said:

She is a hilariously weak champion.

Congratulations Ember, you finally won the big one!

...once the previous champion left.

...having given the title up and never been pinned or submitted.

...including by you, because you lost to her twice.

...but hey, seriously, great job with the belt, it looks really neat.

The nail in the coffin was Asuka coming to the ring to congratulate her and hold up her arm in victory with all smiles after Ember won the F4W-- it's like I know why Asuka is smiling (this is as close as anyone can get to being ready for Asukaaaaaa basically Ember's booby prize for not being able to beat the Empress 1-on-1) by why is Ember smiling why her biggest rival and the highest cliff she was never able to climb basically patronizes her in the middle of her biggest achievement!?

Writers should've kept Asuka out of NXT after she gave up the title, that was two steps back for the post-Asuka-era.

[Mozenrath]

Wrestler who has a nifty entrance who people seem to overthink a little.

Great Muta's gimmick was that he was literally a ninja. Exactly how often that mattered to anything depends on if you count stabbing a guy with a kunai from time to time as this big deal.

Not everyone needs to be Bray or Undertaker because they spent some money on special effects. Like, Abdullah had a fork, but it wasn't mean to promote he owned a restaurant, and Original Sheik's pencils didn't mean he had a student gimmick.

[xxshoyuweeniexx]

Dec 15, 2017 14:35:12 GMT -5 4real said:

She lost me the first time she came out for her entrance. Really dark entrance straight into generic babyface hand slapping. She's never recovered for me.

Basically this.

You can’t, can’t, CAN’T do some gothic vaguely dark or evil type promos for your debut and entrance without that being apart of your character or personality or something. You don’t have to go full Wyatt or Taker/Kane or Gangrel with it, but you have to at least add part of that to your gimmick or personality. Aleister Black and Baron Corbin have dark and evil sound entrances, but they at least kinda act moody and brooding.

Ember does none of that. She’s smiling and slapping hands and crying in promo packages and acting like any other face. It’s a huge disconnect, and also she’s not a good enough mic worker to bridge that disconnect either.

[Super Duper Dragunov]

I'll say it again:

I would LOVE to have seen what Dusty would have done with Ember Moon's character. He'd know what to do.

[bootytea]

Last thing I want to see is a Wrestlelicious type gimmick in WWE.

She is doing fine, just needs to improve on the mic. It's not as confusing as Kairi Sane with the pirate outfit and then going out there and putting passable matches. Ember just wears contact lenses and goes out to put on great matches.

It's the booking that's not putting her in situations that develop her character. If they go 1999 Ministry of Darkness with her, it will be beyond cheesy..

[Rocky Raccoon]

"Ember Moon just loves to have fun." is literally how she carries herself 90% of the time, despite dressing like this.



I don't think anyone's calling for her to go Ministry or Bray Wyatt with the mysticism, but my goodness she needs to consistently carry SOME kind of edge to match her aesthetic. Everything wrong with her character was magnified at NXT Chicago, to a point where even all the panelists seemed confused by her lack of committment. I dare anyone to defend her character work in this video.



I really want her to do well, and it drives the acting coach in me bananas.
No matter what your character, you DO NOT repeatedly giggle and roll your eyes when talking about retribution and vengage.