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Post by The Rick Jericho on Dec 31, 2017 21:40:34 GMT -5
Triple H.
For injecting himself into the Summer of Punk storyline and also for not being a big fan of him and probably not wanting him back.
Whether you like it or not, HHH is a huge part of Punk's legacy for better or for worse.
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Post by IMPRESSIVE knightwing1047 on Dec 31, 2017 22:17:02 GMT -5
Ironically, Triple H (who’s just the other side of the asshole coin Punk is one) is the guy who looked at the success of Punk as well as Bryan, and decided to roll with it and sign more guys like him. Unlike Vince, who seems to have to be dragged kicking and screaming to do something other than what he wants, Hunter at least goes “I don’t get it, but f*** it these crowds like it so why not”. And there's an aspect of that which I don't feel people really understand. A lot of us seem to be of the mind that Punk can never/will never return to WWE with Hunter there, and I couldn't disagree more. As much as the two may personally dislike one another, I guarantee that if Punk ever knocked on their door and said "let's talk" HHH would be the first one in line to hand him a contract. I couldn’t agree more. I feel like all it would take is a doors-closed, come to Jesus conversation between the two and a compromise. They’re businessmen. They’ll make it happen if they want to. |
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Post by Tea & Crumpets on Jan 1, 2018 6:31:54 GMT -5
Maybe it's because I know nothing about real fighting sports, but I kind of admire CM Punk trying to have an MMA career. He got destroyed, but I like that he had the guts to try even though he was older and would face all kinds of scrutiny if he performed badly. I'm sure the payday was nice, too.  When CM Punk first entered the WWE, I wasn't a fan. I was ready to hate someone coming in with that much hype, but he won me over. Especially when he turned heel and was a holier than thou jerk about being straightedge. I thought that was a great character. He's got an attitude, that's for sure, but that's nothing compared to some of the other terrible behavior you hear about behind the scenes of pro-wrestling. I'm not saying that's an excuse for being an arrogant jerk, but having a big mouth is fairly light compared to stories about other wrestlers. I've done, and competed in, martial arts for over a decade and I still have the utmost respect for CM Punk trying MMA the way he did. Yes he went in at the top, but honestly, if you're a 38 year old wanting to pursue a dream of trying MMA, you are going to want to see how you hold up against higher level competition. You don't want to fight tomato cans unless it's about rubbing your own ego. If you want to test yourself and see what you can do you go to UFC, sure you won't get a shot against a top UFC guy right away but you'll still fight someone better than a good 75% of what you'd find anywhere else. He 'took someone's spot' for one night on one card. And the diference between UFC and WWE is that the guys who are good will get that spot in the future- in WWE, it's more about your face fitting. I see no problem with Punk's UFC attempt. As for his WWE legacy it'll be that a guy who was incredibly talented but maybe didn't have the body of work in-ring you'd expect from that, but outside the ring in particular transformed the landscape of WWE, even if he martyred himself in the process. He'll be the guy who should have got the same level of success his successors will get (I guarantee we will have an all-indie main event at Mania in the near future) but who could never have had that success without the one to change the system first. |
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Post by alexwrightspackage on Jan 1, 2018 7:31:56 GMT -5
Considering how he was gone and made so inconsequential quickly after, widhbhe really did go away and wrestle in the indies til at least Survivor Series, even if it's kayfabe. A champion being out of contract not being in the company for months on end would've cemented his legacy.
He's brash, annoying and all that, but if the reports are true that he needed time off and Vince kept asking him to have it at, I sympathize. He's a bad martyr, but nonetheless.
His legacy for me is basically that mess up there. A glimmer of potential, halted by either his actions, or HHH or Vince. A bit more complex than Bryan's, where it sounds more tragic.
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Post by abjordans on Jan 1, 2018 7:41:10 GMT -5
A guy that supposedly changed the WWE with a "pipebomb" but when I think about it I can't name a single thing that it changed. He's kinda like Del Rio. He came, did his thing, won titles, did a good job... but really didn't leave a mark in history. I'd argue the only thing that really changed is random CM Punk chants in a couple select cities. If you can’t see what CM Punk changed in WWE, you are choosing to keep your eyes closed. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2018 7:53:03 GMT -5
Punk's WWE career highlights for me are things that tend to get overlooked in favour of higher profile stuff.
Him leading the New Nexus, however poorly the stable and angle went, was him at his best, a far better 'cult' leader than SES. Him sitting in the ring with the smuggest grin on his face surrounded by his cohorts during the Rumble was the best, and this period had his best match too vs Cena on RAW.
His feud with Jeff too was superb throughout.
The feud with Heyman and Lesnar too featured the best in promos from him and Heyman and one of his greatest matches vs Brock at Summerslam.
Summer of Punk had 2 good matches (Cena and Hunter) and 2 outstanding promos (pipebomb and "I don't want the new you, the new you sucks, I want the cerebral assassin") but overall for a variety of reasons didn't live up to my expectations. The Jeff feud and New Nexus had Punk at 100% throughout.
As for his legacy, I feel in hindsight he lesser stuff will be remembered more fondly as the bigger stuff enters wrestling folklore.
Also, he'll be back and Hunter will be the one to facilitate it, as others have already mentioned.
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Post by sfvega on Jan 1, 2018 8:18:27 GMT -5
A guy that supposedly changed the WWE with a "pipebomb" but when I think about it I can't name a single thing that it changed. He's kinda like Del Rio. He came, did his thing, won titles, did a good job... but really didn't leave a mark in history. I'd argue the only thing that really changed is random CM Punk chants in a couple select cities. If you can’t see what CM Punk changed in WWE, you are choosing to keep your eyes closed. Yeah, just look at developmental before and after Punk. He knocked the door down for big time ROH guys like Bryan, Cesaro, Rollins, etc. Maybe those guys get in down the line anyway. But him being the polar opposite of the WWE's "type" at the time and being successful definitely had a major effect on guys like Low Ki and Generico and Steen being viable guys in a world that Vince controls. And I was never big on him, as the indy darling status did preceed him and cause some backlash (which Cena somehow put perfectly). But yeah, he changed the landscape there and that's probably a bigger impact than the pipe bomb and the tiny Summer of Punk the WWE had until it got broke up. Good body of work in the big leagues, but probably more influential than great in the end. And that isn't to say he wasn't successful. To me, Punk is a lot like Barry Sanders. Some people loved him and some people didn't like him, but the vitrol for him REALLY came out when he left on his own terms. Which says a little more about the audience than the athlete. |
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Post by Hypnosis on Jan 1, 2018 9:53:23 GMT -5
Let's say that Punk does return. Will he still be allowed to use the GTS, since Itami stopped using it after breaking Kendrick's orbital bone last week, and Aries' near the end of 2016?
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nisidhe
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Post by nisidhe on Jan 1, 2018 11:36:03 GMT -5
Let's say that Punk does return. Will he still be allowed to use the GTS, since Itami stopped using it after breaking Kendrick's orbital bone last week, and Aries' last year? Punk still had the Anaconda Vice when the GTS couldn't be put into play. Itami will find another move he can use. Perhaps we'll see a resurgence in the use of submission finishers if the well becomes drained. |
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Post by The Thread Barbi on Jan 1, 2018 11:39:39 GMT -5
I might be bold in saying this but I genuinely feel this way about it; 75% of the present roster has Punk to thank for being there. The fact he was brought in and taken a chance with (especially since they had Omega and Bryan before but let them go quickly, in Bryan’s case) and got successful made people look deeper into intergrating experienced independent veterans into the roster rather than Home produced guys who mostly went nowhere (the fact that the only pre FCW guys left on the roster all came from that OVW 2002 class says a lot about that) is a huge shift in dynamic for them. I’ll also say that the NXT model now is moulded over wanting to have those talents be a part of WWE and work their way to the main roster. Like, there is no way Owens would have been touched if Punk wasn’t successful. He’d have gained his momentum in ROH that he lost from a failed TNA run, to be frank. Bottom line is that WWE is a business and Punk sold enough merchandise to make the office think differently about indy veterans that have a grassroots popularity. Indy wrestlers are now a viable revenue stream. That being said, workrate means naught to the mainstream, as you are well aware. Who gets the biggest ticket sales and shift most merchandise? Someone homegrown like Rusev or Braun or even Roman Reigns. The only real exception is AJ Styles - who is categorically better than Punk in every way for me - matches, promo and attitude. |
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Post by Feargus McReddit on Jan 1, 2018 11:48:11 GMT -5
I might be bold in saying this but I genuinely feel this way about it; 75% of the present roster has Punk to thank for being there. The fact he was brought in and taken a chance with (especially since they had Omega and Bryan before but let them go quickly, in Bryan’s case) and got successful made people look deeper into intergrating experienced independent veterans into the roster rather than Home produced guys who mostly went nowhere (the fact that the only pre FCW guys left on the roster all came from that OVW 2002 class says a lot about that) is a huge shift in dynamic for them. I’ll also say that the NXT model now is moulded over wanting to have those talents be a part of WWE and work their way to the main roster. Like, there is no way Owens would have been touched if Punk wasn’t successful. He’d have gained his momentum in ROH that he lost from a failed TNA run, to be frank. Bottom line is that WWE is a business and Punk sold enough merchandise to make the office think differently about indy veterans that have a grassroots popularity. Indy wrestlers are now a viable revenue stream. That being said, workrate means naught to the mainstream, as you are well aware. Who gets the biggest ticket sales and shift most merchandise? Someone homegrown like Rusev or Braun or even Roman Reigns. The only real exception is AJ Styles - who is categorically better than Punk in every way for me - matches, promo and attitude. I'd slightly disagree with that to be honest. I said that the other developmental guys didn't work because they didn't have the connection in their ring work. Like, some had character down but then they got in the ring and either a) they couldn't connect to the crowd because they were dull, b) did a Kennedy and botched so hard a lot that nobody wanted to work with the guy after awhile or c) were treated like jokes and lost to either Cena or anyone from the Attitude era (like HHH and Shawn Michaels/Big Show and Kane killing tag divisions like they're hunting season). The difference between Chris Masters (of 2004-2006, he got a tonne better much later in his career) and, say, Kevin Owens is quite massive considering that the one thing Masters lacked was a real in ring connection. Owens is over because he is a badass when he cuts a promo and in the ring and, more importantly, can make someone look good without sacrificing his own credibility. Hell, you mention AJ. AJ knows how to make his style work in WWE not just because he's experienced with a varity of opponents but because he knows how to make himself look amazing too, so you want to see him, you want to see his opponent and you want to see the match they're in. That was something that was lacking well before someone like Punk came in. Like, seriously, did you think MVP could beat Kane? Or Kennedy could beat Undertaker? Or Masters had a hope against Shawn Michaels ever? |
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Post by The Thread Barbi on Jan 1, 2018 14:26:37 GMT -5
Bottom line is that WWE is a business and Punk sold enough merchandise to make the office think differently about indy veterans that have a grassroots popularity. Indy wrestlers are now a viable revenue stream. That being said, workrate means naught to the mainstream, as you are well aware. Who gets the biggest ticket sales and shift most merchandise? Someone homegrown like Rusev or Braun or even Roman Reigns. The only real exception is AJ Styles - who is categorically better than Punk in every way for me - matches, promo and attitude. I'd slightly disagree with that to be honest. I said that the other developmental guys didn't work because they didn't have the connection in their ring work. Like, some had character down but then they got in the ring and either a) they couldn't connect to the crowd because they were dull, b) did a Kennedy and botched so hard a lot that nobody wanted to work with the guy after awhile or c) were treated like jokes and lost to either Cena or anyone from the Attitude era (like HHH and Shawn Michaels/Big Show and Kane killing tag divisions like they're hunting season). The difference between Chris Masters (of 2004-2006, he got a tonne better much later in his career) and, say, Kevin Owens is quite massive considering that the one thing Masters lacked was a real in ring connection. Owens is over because he is a badass when he cuts a promo and in the ring and, more importantly, can make someone look good without sacrificing his own credibility. Hell, you mention AJ. AJ knows how to make his style work in WWE not just because he's experienced with a varity of opponents but because he knows how to make himself look amazing too, so you want to see him, you want to see his opponent and you want to see the match they're in. That was something that was lacking well before someone like Punk came in. Like, seriously, did you think MVP could beat Kane? Or Kennedy could beat Undertaker? Or Masters had a hope against Shawn Michaels ever? A bonafide star from either indy or homegrown backgrounds is a lot of factors coming together. Where Punk was successful, his buddy Cobana and that Chris Hero were duds in WWE. For every Chris Masters or MVP there is a Brock Lesnar or Batista, which are homegrown talents that surpass the genre of pro-wrestling. The latter cannot be said about any indy worker. Yes, Punk used his name value to get into UFC (showing that he's a hypocrite given that one of his gripes was part-timers walking in and taking top spots at Wrestlemania based on their name value), but the results are very different. He's a meme, not a megastar. He may have contributed to indy veterans getting a look in, but Daniel Bryan is equally important given that the Yes Movement was in full swing during Punk's long title reign. I agree with your main point, but Punk is someone who succeeded in mainstream wrestling despite his personal demeanour and has opened doors. I just don't think he is worth remembering as some messianic figure. He just never was the elite he said he was. He certainly didn't produce hit after hit after hit that will be engraved into wrestling folklore forevermore, like Shawn Michaels did, for example. |
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Post by Larryhausen on Jan 1, 2018 14:47:19 GMT -5
 "Two indie schmucks..." This is the first thing I think of when I think of Punk. |
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Post by chazraps on Jan 1, 2018 14:51:27 GMT -5
Forget about his multiple title reigns. Forget about the pipebomb. Heck, forget about the Straight Edge Society. Will Punk's legacy be remembered as that disgruntled WWE employee? That guy bitter at WWE for not getting his WM main event match. It's like the Bruno Samartino of this generation of guys that have severed ties w Vince. No |
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Post by AlexaBliss4Life on Jan 1, 2018 15:06:26 GMT -5
His legacy now might be horrid joke of an MMA fighter. As it should. Hell no. His legacy is forever cemented as a guy that fought the company's system against their type of guys and won. Without Punk, we wouldn't have guys like Styles, Neville or for the brief time we had him, Austin Aries. |
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Post by AlexaBliss4Life on Jan 1, 2018 15:10:18 GMT -5
Let's say that Punk does return. Will he still be allowed to use the GTS, since Itami stopped using it after breaking Kendrick's orbital bone last week, and Aries' near the end of 2016? Itami will keep the GTS. He innovated the move for god sakes. He knows how to deliver it better than anyone. Kendrick was a freak thing, same with Aries. |
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Post by Tenshigure on Jan 1, 2018 21:28:36 GMT -5
This is what I'll remember him for:  |
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Post by BayleyTiffyCodyCenaJudyHopps on Jan 1, 2018 22:12:39 GMT -5
I'm pretty certain it's this  |
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Post by corndog on Jan 2, 2018 12:57:42 GMT -5
Forget about his multiple title reigns. Forget about the pipebomb. Heck, forget about the Straight Edge Society. Will Punk's legacy be remembered as that disgruntled WWE employee? That guy bitter at WWE for not getting his WM main event match. It's like the Bruno Samartino of this generation of guys that have severed ties w Vince. I think Punk's legacy will be best remembered as how his reputation stands today; polarizing. He will be remembered as that disgruntled employee who randomly quit one night but it's remiss to think that the 434 day title reign, the pipe bombs, and incredible matches will be forgotten about any time soon. He will always be remembered by his supporters for his outstanding promos, ring-work, and general honesty. Of course he will always be remembered equally from his detractors for his negative treatment of fans, his hypocrisy of taking away a valuable UFC PPV spot, and his subsequent failures in the octagon. This is definitely how he will be remembered. But I just don't get why you can't feel both ways. The "pipebomb" is still one of the most memorable moments in wrestling for me, especially for WWE. His match with Cena was brilliant. Even before that, I loved his Straight Edge Society gimmick and the feud with Jeff Hardy, then trolling the fans dressed up as Hardy when he left. His 434 day reign as champion was great and while he felt it was a consolation prize, having a match with the Undertaker at Wrestlemania was a big deal. But then there is the guy who elbowed a fan that tapped him on the shoulder. How people defend that is ridiculous to me, what if that was you or a friend? Getting the UFC ppv spot based on his name makes him a complete hypocrite after what he said about the Rock. Not saying this makes him an entirely terrible person, just that his fans will defend it, when it's just the truth. So basically, I appreciated his WWE run and it's something I don't see being replicated any time soon. It was a breath of fresh air after a period of lifelessness in the company. But I also don't think he's the greatest person on Earth. |
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Post by A Platypus Rave is Correct on Jan 2, 2018 13:06:46 GMT -5
I think Punk's legacy will be best remembered as how his reputation stands today; polarizing. He will be remembered as that disgruntled employee who randomly quit one night but it's remiss to think that the 434 day title reign, the pipe bombs, and incredible matches will be forgotten about any time soon. He will always be remembered by his supporters for his outstanding promos, ring-work, and general honesty. Of course he will always be remembered equally from his detractors for his negative treatment of fans, his hypocrisy of taking away a valuable UFC PPV spot, and his subsequent failures in the octagon. This is definitely how he will be remembered. But I just don't get why you can't feel both ways. The "pipebomb" is still one of the most memorable moments in wrestling for me, especially for WWE. His match with Cena was brilliant. Even before that, I loved his Straight Edge Society gimmick and the feud with Jeff Hardy, then trolling the fans dressed up as Hardy when he left. His 434 day reign as champion was great and while he felt it was a consolation prize, having a match with the Undertaker at Wrestlemania was a big deal. But then there is the guy who elbowed a fan that tapped him on the shoulder. How people defend that is ridiculous to me, what if that was you or a friend? Getting the UFC ppv spot based on his name makes him a complete hypocrite after what he said about the Rock. Not saying this makes him an entirely terrible person, just that his fans will defend it, when it's just the truth. So basically, I appreciated his WWE run and it's something I don't see being replicated any time soon. It was a breath of fresh air after a period of lifelessness in the company. But I also don't think he's the greatest person on Earth. From what I remember he didn't even punch the guy that tapped him on the shoulder. He punched the guy in front of the guy that tapped him. |
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