Is it time for KUSHIDA to move out the Juniors divison?

[Captain Stud Muffin (BLM)]

He was ready in my opinion at this point last year but Hiromu hit the scene and their chemistry was too good to let the opportunity go by to get a few matches between them. With Marty now in the mix, it would seem to be time to finally let Kushida make his mark up with the heavyweights. 

Would love to see him get a shot at someone like Tanahashi considering he needs time to fix his body up and you can take chances with the IC title now that the U.S. title is in the mix

[honsou]

Hes certainly good enough and it would set up a bunch of interesting matches.

[OVO 40 hunched over like he 80]

I just realized that fun loving goofy gimmick Kushida was an mma fighter. So he can move to any division he damn well pleases.

[BRAINFADE]

Yeah I think it's time. KUSHIDA did a tremendous job as the Jr. ace, helping to elevate both the title and division as a whole. Now it's time to leave the division in the safe hands of Hiromu Takahashi.

[Captain Stud Muffin (BLM)]

Jan 5, 2018 11:11:22 GMT -5 BRAINFADE said:

Yeah I think it's time. KUSHIDA did a tremendous job as the Jr. ace, helping to elevate both the title and division as a whole. Now it's time to leave the division in the safe hands of Hiromu Takahashi.

Yup that’s mainly the big reason why you move him up because of Hiromu. Kushida did a great job carrying the division but now they have someone to replace him as the ace. I know Ospreay has talked about moving up in weight as well but NJPW needs to give Kushida that chance

[Deleted]

You mean GLOBAL FORCE WRESTLING SUPERSTAR Kushida?

[eJm]

Jan 5, 2018 12:20:56 GMT -5 Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) said:

Jan 5, 2018 11:11:22 GMT -5 BRAINFADE said:

Yeah I think it's time. KUSHIDA did a tremendous job as the Jr. ace, helping to elevate both the title and division as a whole. Now it's time to leave the division in the safe hands of Hiromu Takahashi.

Yup that’s mainly the big reason why you move him up because of Hiromu. Kushida did a great job carrying the division but now they have someone to replace him as the ace. I know Ospreay has talked about moving up in weight as well but NJPW needs to give Kushida that chance

Yeah, let Ospreay have some time down there to build the division up before you move him from there. KUSHIDA could genuinely do wonders in the heavyweight hunt.

[Captain Stud Muffin (BLM)]

Jan 5, 2018 12:24:27 GMT -5 eJm said:

Jan 5, 2018 12:20:56 GMT -5 Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) said:

Yup that’s mainly the big reason why you move him up because of Hiromu. Kushida did a great job carrying the division but now they have someone to replace him as the ace. I know Ospreay has talked about moving up in weight as well but NJPW needs to give Kushida that chance

Yeah, let Ospreay have some time down there to build the division up before you move him from there. KUSHIDA could genuinely do wonders in the heavyweight hunt.

Right. I think he can make an immediate impact and you wouldn’t need to build him up like they are doing with Barreta. Fans already recognize KUSHIDA and putting him in there with someone like Tanahashi could work well

Hell, throw him in the G1 this year and give him a story to tell. Even if he loses all his matches you can chalk it up learning new opponents. It would be better than seeing YOSHI Hashi getting 1 win just because.

[eJm]

Jan 5, 2018 12:29:02 GMT -5 Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) said:

Jan 5, 2018 12:24:27 GMT -5 eJm said:

Yeah, let Ospreay have some time down there to build the division up before you move him from there. KUSHIDA could genuinely do wonders in the heavyweight hunt.

Right. I think he can make an immediate impact and you wouldn’t need to build him up like they are doing with Barreta. Fans already recognize KUSHIDA and putting him in there with someone like Tanahashi could work well

Hell, throw him in the G1 this year and give him a story to tell. Even if he loses all his matches you can chalk it up learning new opponents. It would be better than seeing YOSHI Hashi getting 1 win just because.

Goddamnit, you son of a bitch, I want to see Ibushi/KUSHIDA now.

[This Player Hating Mothman]

Kushida has done a great job where he is, but I think just as a performer he needs to grow away from the junior ace role for a while, because it feels like a lot of who he is. That said I don't know that it's time right now because I think before they do that they need to settle his Hiromu feud in a way that definitively passes the torch and shows Hiromu is the definite heir to the role rather than just a claimant. One more climactic capstone for their feud as the main undercurrent through BOSJ and toward a Dominion match to give their feud its conclusion, Kushida one last big story before he moves up rather than just doing so with nothing else to do, and Hiromu his crowning moment.

[Captain Stud Muffin (BLM)]

Jan 5, 2018 12:31:20 GMT -5 eJm said:

Jan 5, 2018 12:29:02 GMT -5 Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) said:

Right. I think he can make an immediate impact and you wouldn’t need to build him up like they are doing with Barreta. Fans already recognize KUSHIDA and putting him in there with someone like Tanahashi could work well

Hell, throw him in the G1 this year and give him a story to tell. Even if he loses all his matches you can chalk it up learning new opponents. It would be better than seeing YOSHI Hashi getting 1 win just because.

Goddamnit, you son of a bitch, I want to see Ibushi/KUSHIDA now.

That match would be some damn good

Yeah, they have to put KUSHIDA in the G1, it's only right

[Captain Stud Muffin (BLM)]

Jan 5, 2018 12:38:46 GMT -5 This Player Hating Mothman said:

Kushida has done a great job where he is, but I think just as a performer he needs to grow away from the junior ace role for a while, because it feels like a lot of who he is. That said I don't know that it's time right now because I think before they do that they need to settle his Hiromu feud in a way that definitively passes the torch and shows Hiromu is the definite heir to the role rather than just a claimant. One more climactic capstone for their feud as the main undercurrent through BOSJ and toward a Dominion match to give their feud its conclusion, Kushida one last big story before he moves up rather than just doing so with nothing else to do, and Hiromu his crowning moment.

Well, they've sort of mirrored a smaller version of the Tanahashi/Hiromu feud so I can see them going for one more match at WrestleKingdom to fully cement Hiromu as the man of the Juniors 

[This Player Hating Mothman]

Jan 5, 2018 12:47:45 GMT -5 Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) said:

Jan 5, 2018 12:38:46 GMT -5 This Player Hating Mothman said:

Kushida has done a great job where he is, but I think just as a performer he needs to grow away from the junior ace role for a while, because it feels like a lot of who he is. That said I don't know that it's time right now because I think before they do that they need to settle his Hiromu feud in a way that definitively passes the torch and shows Hiromu is the definite heir to the role rather than just a claimant. One more climactic capstone for their feud as the main undercurrent through BOSJ and toward a Dominion match to give their feud its conclusion, Kushida one last big story before he moves up rather than just doing so with nothing else to do, and Hiromu his crowning moment.

Well, they've sort of mirrored a smaller version of the Tanahashi/Hiromu feud so I can see them going for one more match at WrestleKingdom to fully cement Hiromu as the man of the Juniors 

I wouldn't hold off a whole year, personally, especially with their second biggest show hosting the BOSJ title shot anyway. Puts some great drama into BOSJ and then Kushida moves up in time for the G1.

[AdamAFL was sooooo wrong]

No. It'll never be time for KUSHIDA to move out of the Jr division because the dude is a Jr. He's absolutely fantastic at what he does but he's not a heavyweight.

[Captain Stud Muffin (BLM)]

Jan 5, 2018 14:52:41 GMT -5 AdamAFL was sooooo wrong said:

No. It'll never be time for KUSHIDA to move out of the Jr division because the dude is a Jr. He's absolutely fantastic at what he does but he's not a heavyweight.

How do you figure tho?

It's not like their isn't skinny Heavyweights that were once Juniors like Kota Ibushi or even toy with the idea of a person being a Junior and still challenging for the title like Finn did

He's got the body can put on more weight if he needs to like a Kenny Omega but not to the bulk extent like he's done

[This Player Hating Mothman]

If New Japan says the three french fries shoved into a Union Jack jacket that is Zack Saber Jr. qualifies as a heavyweight then Kushida can too.

["Evil Brood" Jackson Vanik]

He definitely has the ability to put on some weight to be considered a legitimate heavyweight. He also has a super diverse style that can put on believable stories with top flight guys in the company. 

However, I wish he could stay in the division to make it a bigger deal in the company. I was super impressed with how over the juniors were at the Tokyo Dome and I want that to continue to build. I know that the division will never be on an equal level of the heavyweights, but I think Kushida has the ability to continue the positive trend. 

[AdamAFL was sooooo wrong]

Jan 5, 2018 15:18:13 GMT -5 Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) said:

Jan 5, 2018 14:52:41 GMT -5 AdamAFL was sooooo wrong said:

No. It'll never be time for KUSHIDA to move out of the Jr division because the dude is a Jr. He's absolutely fantastic at what he does but he's not a heavyweight.

How do you figure tho?

It's not like their isn't skinny Heavyweights that were once Juniors like Kota Ibushi or even toy with the idea of a person being a Junior and still challenging for the title like Finn did

He's got the body can put on more weight if he needs to like a Kenny Omega but not to the bulk extent like he's done

Times change don't get me wrong. No way Ibushi would have ever been a heavyweight in the 90s but there's still levels that Japanese crowds will not let their tradition change on and KUSHIDA would be a step too far. KUSHIDA could bulk a bit, but not massively, he hasn't got the frame for it. But the real killer is his height. The crowds wouldn't accept it. It would be KENTA all over again and that was one of the decisive blows in the ultimate downfall of NOAH.

[Captain Stud Muffin (BLM)]

Jan 5, 2018 15:44:13 GMT -5 AdamAFL was sooooo wrong said:

Jan 5, 2018 15:18:13 GMT -5 Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) said:

How do you figure tho?

It's not like their isn't skinny Heavyweights that were once Juniors like Kota Ibushi or even toy with the idea of a person being a Junior and still challenging for the title like Finn did

He's got the body can put on more weight if he needs to like a Kenny Omega but not to the bulk extent like he's done

Times change don't get me wrong. No way Ibushi would have ever been a heavyweight in the 90s but there's still levels that Japanese crowds will not let their tradition change on and KUSHIDA would be a step too far. KUSHIDA could bulk a bit, but not massively, he hasn't got the frame for it. But the real killer is his height. The crowds wouldn't accept it. It would be KENTA all over again and that was one of the decisive blows in the ultimate downfall of NOAH.

I hear you on that. Don't get me wrong he wouldn't look right against hosses like Kitamura but I think more so now it's about style than anything. I mean looking at ZSJ, he doesn't look right against people like Tanahashi or Tama Tonga but his style sells that he's a heavyweight because he makes shit hurt and I think Kushida can do the same because of his background

[AdamAFL was sooooo wrong]

Jan 5, 2018 15:56:19 GMT -5 Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) said:

Jan 5, 2018 15:44:13 GMT -5 AdamAFL was sooooo wrong said:

Times change don't get me wrong. No way Ibushi would have ever been a heavyweight in the 90s but there's still levels that Japanese crowds will not let their tradition change on and KUSHIDA would be a step too far. KUSHIDA could bulk a bit, but not massively, he hasn't got the frame for it. But the real killer is his height. The crowds wouldn't accept it. It would be KENTA all over again and that was one of the decisive blows in the ultimate downfall of NOAH.

I hear you on that. Don't get me wrong he wouldn't look right against hosses like Kitamura but I think more so now it's about style than anything. I mean looking at ZSJ, he doesn't look right against people like Tanahashi or Tama Tonga but his style sells that he's a heavyweight because he makes shit hurt and I think Kushida can do the same because of his background

I know what you're getting at. And Japanese culture has become slightly more Americanised (at least in New Japan) over recent years - mainly thanks to Gedo's obsession with American wrestling. Hell, Wrestle Kingdom just had a No Disqualification match on the card. That's just mindblowing that the fans accepted that. But you see something like the Ladder match and that was a step too far for them. I just think it's the same in this scenario. There's quite a few guys that are heavy's now that just wouldn't have flown in the 90s (Ibushi, ZSJ, Beretta, hell even Ishii because of his height) but this is the same time period where NJ insiders were terrified that Hash would flop because they thought he was too short (at 5'11"). But there are still times where it goes too far (like NOAH trying to push KENTAfuji as heavy's and - in my opinion - KUSHIDA if you were to try and go down that route). Maybe in another 20 years Japan will have completely changed again and it will be an openweight system like most of the rest of the world but for right now I think a KUSHIDA heavyweight push would fall absolutely flat and be a huge waste of him.