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Post by 1 Free Moon-Down with Burger on Jan 6, 2018 17:13:16 GMT -5
Hhh didn't write those promos. Sure about that? Dude's been in the writing room for nearly 15 years. |
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Post by cabbageboy on Jan 6, 2018 17:44:28 GMT -5
I wouldn't have a problem with HHH running the show in a world where he had nothing to do with the onscreen product. If he and Steph are to be consistent onscreen characters then this will suck a lot worse than anything Vince could conjure up.
HHH is a very insecure guy, or at least he was. Insanely protective of his spot because at the end of the day the guy has never been a great talent. He isn't a great natural athlete, wasn't really any good as a wrestler for a long time, and there are guys that come along that are obviously more talented or can draw a reaction without anywhere near the push, and HHH lashes out against those guys.
The notion that some guys like Van Dam might be forgotten once HHH takes over is curious. We know HHH is willing to bridge the gaps with Vince and guys like Warrior or Bruno, but is he willing to put aside differences with guys he himself has had heat with over the years? Of course I don't think whatever heat RVD or Jericho have with HHH (and vice versa) remotely compares with Vince and Warrior or Vince and Bruno, where it was decades of total bitterness, ill will, and even lawsuits.
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mizerable
Fry's dog Seymour
You're the lowest on the totem pole here, Alva. The lowest.
Posts: 23,475
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Post by mizerable on Jan 6, 2018 18:21:10 GMT -5
The promo where he talked about guys who weren't the guy is such a joke. I would say all those guys with maybe the exception of Edge were consistently more over and had a larger fan base than Triple H did.
Raw's ratings tanked when he was allowed to run his 4 Horseman- lite programming.
If wrestling wasn't so backward and was instead actually run like a normal company, he would have been removed from that position or tweaked to get better results.
If there's a reason if why any of those guys didn't "draw", it's because you cut their legs out under them so you could continue your hedonistic dull programming. It's like Larry Zybysko proudly proclaiming he was the only drawing power as AWA closed it's doors.
It's a stupid promo anyways. I get that Triple H is supposed to be an evil businessman, but to refer to himself when it comes to drawing and all that shit...it doesn't matter to the live crowd at all. Zero heat.
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Post by The Rick Jericho on Jan 6, 2018 18:44:53 GMT -5
I wouldn't have a problem with HHH running the show in a world where he had nothing to do with the onscreen product. If he and Steph are to be consistent onscreen characters then this will suck a lot worse than anything Vince could conjure up. HHH is a very insecure guy, or at least he was. Insanely protective of his spot because at the end of the day the guy has never been a great talent. He isn't a great natural athlete, wasn't really any good as a wrestler for a long time, and there are guys that come along that are obviously more talented or can draw a reaction without anywhere near the push, and HHH lashes out against those guys. The notion that some guys like Van Dam might be forgotten once HHH takes over is curious. We know HHH is willing to bridge the gaps with Vince and guys like Warrior or Bruno, but is he willing to put aside differences with guys he himself has had heat with over the years? Of course I don't think whatever heat RVD or Jericho have with HHH (and vice versa) remotely compares with Vince and Warrior or Vince and Bruno, where it was decades of total bitterness, ill will, and even lawsuits. No way. I don't think his insecurity will allow it. So guys like Rob Van Dam, Edge, Punk and Bret Hart are 4 guys I definitely see slipping, slipping and slipping away more once HHH is the man and Vince is dead. Edit: Someone might throw Goldberg at this point. Watch the WWE24 special on Goldberg. Seems it was more Goldberg wanted a better ending and Vince wanted to do business again. HHH was just there and went along with it. If it was completely up to HHH, I have serious doubts he would ever be back after 2004. Especially with all the snide remarks he made up until 2013. |
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Jan 6, 2018 20:38:54 GMT -5
HHH is one of my probably top ten favorites, but he's never legitimately been 'the guy'. He has always, always been the foil to whoever the guy was.
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Post by bootytea on Jan 6, 2018 20:50:23 GMT -5
Watched both videos and just saw a heel getting heat..
Besides, if Triple H believes these things, it's his opinion. You look at how Eric Bischoff couldn't get a marketing gig in WWE, but ended up being a big reason WCW was successful back then. Sometimes your skills aren't optimal in certain environments.
I personally agree with Triple H about Edge and Chris Jericho for sure because they scream mid card to me each and every time. Outside of his feud with John Cena (mic wise, not in ring) and making out with Vickie Guerrero, Edge's run at the top was bad enough to make me not watch RAW around that time. Chris Jericho was fun at times, but I felt he was at his best in WCW as a somewhat serious/comic relief midcarder. It was too much of a stretch for me to buy the guy as on the same level and Austin and Johnson back then.
Rob Van Dam and especially Booker T were screwed over big time. With that in mind, RVD showed us how responsible he was once becoming WWE champion though. Lol.
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Post by thegame415 on Jan 6, 2018 21:15:27 GMT -5
Are these really burials? Who should he have feuded with?
Why doesn’t anyone think he buried Nash or Steiner?
I agree that he was basically playing four horsemen during that time, but he lost the first Elimination Chamber, jobbed twice to Goldberg, lost twice to Shelton Benjamin, tapped out to Benoit, played awesome manipulator to Eugene, and put over Batista, essentially being the one to help Batista to the next level.
Yes, there were hiccups, he should’ve lost at WM 19, but still...burial doesn’t mean wrestler you like loses. It’s intenionally making someone look like a fool, a lot of times in a shoot way, with no progression of story or reason.
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Post by The Rick Jericho on Jan 6, 2018 21:26:14 GMT -5
So the vibe I get is that everyone except Booker one way or another deserved their HHHFate?
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Post by Zaq "That Guy" Buzzkill on Jan 6, 2018 21:30:30 GMT -5
A lot of people also seem to forget that in his own book Jericho placed the blame of his burial on Vince McMahon. He never sung HHHs praises, but there were time when he could have easily blamed him for the ten minute world title run but didn't.
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mizerable
Fry's dog Seymour
You're the lowest on the totem pole here, Alva. The lowest.
Posts: 23,475
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Post by mizerable on Jan 6, 2018 22:06:57 GMT -5
I think the issue I have is that the promo tends to suggest that Triple H was a guy who brought in money while guys like Jericho and RVD didn't, which is absolutely absurd to say. Hell, I don't even want to crap on Edge since business continued to slump while he was out with his initial neck injury.
I mean if Triple H truly believes that he's the best or whatever...good for him, he can relate that outside of the program. However, in the context of what wrestling is, it doesn't make a lick of sense to say someone didn't draw a dime. So apparently Edge being champion 11 times meant it was bad TV? Then why allow for him to become champion unless this shit is scripted.
Seriously, f*** those stupid shoot promos where you're trying to peel back the layers of the story and 'get real'. It's glaringly pathetic and doesn't do anything to put over those who need the rub.
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Post by psychokiller on Jan 6, 2018 22:22:33 GMT -5
Are these really burials? Who should he have feuded with? Why doesn’t anyone think he buried Nash or Steiner? I agree that he was basically playing four horsemen during that time, but he lost the first Elimination Chamber, jobbed twice to Goldberg, lost twice to Shelton Benjamin, tapped out to Benoit, played awesome manipulator to Eugene, and put over Batista, essentially being the one to help Batista to the next level. Yes, there were hiccups, he should’ve lost at WM 19, but still...burial doesn’t mean wrestler you like loses. It’s intenionally making someone look like a fool, a lot of times in a shoot way, with no progression of story or reason. He did bury Steiner. After their feud was over Steiner didn’t even have a match on the Mania 19 card. Nash left soon after to film the Punisher movie but he didn’t look good after their feud ended either. He lost the first Chamber match but it was to one of his best friends so he had no problem with it & he got the title back the month after anyway & held it for 9 long months during the reign of terror. He lost twice to Goldberg but he beat Goldberg in the chamber with 1 move as well as got the title back in December of that year. He tapped to Benoit at Mania but Benoit was still playing second fiddle to whatever Triple H was doing on the show & than Triple H got the title back yet again 6 months later. He lost to Benjamin twice but that didn’t affect anything since Benjamin didn’t get any sort of big push out of it. I’ll give you that he did help Batista out though by losing to him 3 PPVs in a row. But Batista is one of the only exceptions of someone he didn’t bury during the 2000s. |
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Post by Amazing Kitsune on Jan 6, 2018 22:53:51 GMT -5
Don't tell me yall forgot this promo. I'll never forget this. Probably the most blatantly meta WWE video ever? (It worked perfectly with the storyline) |
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Post by Alice Syndrome on Jan 6, 2018 23:03:44 GMT -5
I am under the impression Trips thought he was impersonating his idol, the Nature Boy, with a long, dominant heel run in which he went over the top challengers. The part he seemed to miss was that when Flair was at his peak as a dominant champion he did go over guys like Sting and Ricky Steamboat-but he did not bury them and kill off their credibility in the process. Even Flair managed it sometimes. that "look Lex I know you have your finishing submission move on but you have this small trickle of blood on your forehead so you lose" finish killed both Lex Luger, and arguably the NWA itself. |
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Post by cabbageboy on Jan 6, 2018 23:24:02 GMT -5
The Flair thing was more just anger at a really dumb booking move, rather than actual hate directed at Flair himself. As far as HHH goes, I don't get the point of those shoot promos. It's not like any of it was designed to draw money against the guys he crapped on. Edge was retired, Jericho didn't come back to feud with him, RVD didn't either.
The reason people don't lump Steiner and Nash in this discussion is obvious. Steiner was terrible in his WWE run. HHH didn't bury him in those matches, Steiner buried himself well enough with his awful performances. Nash had zero business main eventing PPVs in 2003 anyway so HHH going over him was more like him giving a friend a few pay days.
I wouldn't even really say Booker T. was that much of a burial considering Booker got higher on the card at that point than he had been since the Invasion. The race aspects of that feud are questionable to say the least, but let's not kid ourselves here. Booker wasn't all that over and had been buried far worse during the Invasion and the months that followed the Invasion. The Kane/Katie Vick crap was more just a bad storyline than any serious attempt by HHH to actively bury Kane.
The two guys that HHH unequivocally buried are Jericho and Van Dam. With Jericho it was always paranoia about protecting his spot. With RVD it was probably the same thing and also add to it those guys not especially liking each other.
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Post by corndog on Jan 6, 2018 23:31:57 GMT -5
I wouldn't have a problem with HHH running the show in a world where he had nothing to do with the onscreen product. If he and Steph are to be consistent onscreen characters then this will suck a lot worse than anything Vince could conjure up. HHH is a very insecure guy, or at least he was. Insanely protective of his spot because at the end of the day the guy has never been a great talent. He isn't a great natural athlete, wasn't really any good as a wrestler for a long time, and there are guys that come along that are obviously more talented or can draw a reaction without anywhere near the push, and HHH lashes out against those guys. The notion that some guys like Van Dam might be forgotten once HHH takes over is curious. We know HHH is willing to bridge the gaps with Vince and guys like Warrior or Bruno, but is he willing to put aside differences with guys he himself has had heat with over the years? Of course I don't think whatever heat RVD or Jericho have with HHH (and vice versa) remotely compares with Vince and Warrior or Vince and Bruno, where it was decades of total bitterness, ill will, and even lawsuits. No way. I don't think his insecurity will allow it. So guys like Rob Van Dam, Edge, Punk and Bret Hart are 4 guys I definitely see slipping, slipping and slipping away more once HHH is the man and Vince is dead. Edit: Someone might throw Goldberg at this point. Watch the WWE24 special on Goldberg. Seems it was more Goldberg wanted a better ending and Vince wanted to do business again. HHH was just there and went along with it. If it was completely up to HHH, I have serious doubts he would ever be back after 2004. Especially with all the snide remarks he made up until 2013. This also adds to the question, did Jericho going to New Japan have anything to do with HHH? I heard the story about HHH making Jericho sit down for a 30 minute meeting to tell him he couldn't have NXT performers for his cruise, instead of just calling/texting him to say no. Also, with Vince obviously focused on some project that appears to be a relaunch of the XFL, he most likely won't be around as much and maybe Jericho was alerted to that situation. Either way, I think legacy wise, HHH will still be okay with people he didn't like getting credit. But I'm sure he won't go out of his way to work with people like Jericho, Punk, RVD, Edge or Bret Hart. The good news for them is outside of Jericho, they are all retired, but they still won't be first pick for Network projects featuring retired wrestlers. |
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Jan 6, 2018 23:33:32 GMT -5
HHH is one of my probably top ten favorites, but he's never legitimately been 'the guy'. He has always, always been the foil to whoever the guy was. I think that bothers him deep down. That during wrestling's hottest period he was never the guy, and when the show revolved around him, the reign of terror, it was horrible, to the point that the memories we have of those years are bad ones. How bad it got during the reign of terror? We got Katie Vick, bodybuilding contests, arm wrestling, blatant racism, 20 minutes promos, trying desperately to become Ric Flair while Ric Flair kissed his ass. |
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Woo
Hank Scorpio
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Post by Woo on Jan 6, 2018 23:44:56 GMT -5
You can see how insecure HHH is by how he attaches himself to anybody and anything that gets over so he can get she syphon off that heat for himself. Examples:
-Fighting Cena at Mania 22
-Feuding with Punk after the pipebomb. - -Fighting a returning Lesnar
-Battling the Shield
-Taking on Rollins and Reigns at Wrestlemanias
-Facing Bryan at Wrestlemania
-Being Sting's first opponent
-Facing Taker at Mania twice after Michaels and Taker's classics
He just can't help himself.
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Post by ben:friendship frog on Jan 7, 2018 0:16:14 GMT -5
A lot of people also seem to forget that in his own book Jericho placed the blame of his burial on Vince McMahon. He never sung HHHs praises, but there were time when he could have easily blamed him for the ten minute world title run but didn't. I've actually spoken with Jericho at length about the 10 minute title run, he was/is quite happy with it. He wasn't expecting the 'win', was told he'd win it back eventually (he did), and got a major pop out of it. I think he saw it as an opportunity to show he belonged. |
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Post by Skeletor on Jan 7, 2018 0:27:41 GMT -5
As someone who survived the reign of terror, I will never like this fool. It's a god damn miracle I even catch a show every once in a while after that bullshit timeframe. Seems to be, some guys from his era still bother him. Was it that they were more over than him? Like Van Dam and Jericho? Or likable like Edge? Jericho also replied to this: Thing is tripleh despite ur major push,u never were either. Good luck in ur future endeavours @emmrichr84: Not the one tripleh? I disagree — Chris Jericho (@iamjericho) October 22, 2013 who said what? I don't understannd the @namestuff who is saying what and who is mentioning which |
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Post by Skeletor on Jan 7, 2018 0:58:03 GMT -5
I have never to my memory ever gone to a show TO SPECIFICALLY SEE HHH
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