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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2018 4:29:58 GMT -5
If this were someone I'm not a fan of, say Nash, or context changed, Shane doing this, I'd hate it.
But it's Hunter so I love it. It's such a blind spot and I'm very aware of it, but I can't not love him (and Steph). It's always entertaining to me.
At the same time I understand the outpouring of scorn from many.
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Post by Can you afford to pay me, Gah on Jan 7, 2018 4:38:40 GMT -5
As someone who survived the reign of terror, I will never like this fool. It's a god damn miracle I even catch a show every once in a while after that bullshit timeframe. Seems to be, some guys from his era still bother him. Was it that they were more over than him? Like Van Dam and Jericho? Or likable like Edge? Jericho also replied to this: Thing is tripleh despite ur major push,u never were either. Good luck in ur future endeavours @emmrichr84: Not the one tripleh? I disagree — Chris Jericho (@iamjericho) October 22, 2013 Kind of funny that he says those names but seems way off on his time line. Like the fact RVD didn't come to the WWE until after WCW was gone. Or Edge was just starting his raise when WCW left and I sure as hell remember Edge WM from WM 24 a hell of a lot more then what HHH did that night and which one was the ME? oh right. The one thing about HHH is he thinks he on the same level as those A plus guys when he never was. HHH was good but not as good as he believes he was. HHH was a good heel but what made him good was very good faces that fans liked going against him. HHH and Jericho have a rocky history but Jericho talent over the year shows he an A talent most guys don't have as, and his NJPW match showed that because the storytelling was on point and it really showed. |
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Post by Tea & Crumpets on Jan 7, 2018 7:44:26 GMT -5
One thing I will give HHH- he's possibly the best of all time at politicking.
Killed fan favourites momentum left, right & centre even when he was no longer an active wrestler (Booker T, RVD, Jericho, Punk, arguably Goldberg, arguably Kane), brought his buddies in to hog the spotlight ahead of those more over guys (Summer Of Punk Nash), pushing himself beyond his own skills, chumping out other wrestlers for no good reason (Londrick, Hurricane, Barrett), inserting himself into other peoples' more popular shtick in defiance of story or continuity (SHHHield)....and yet despite all this all he has to do is take a few selfies with indie starlets and everyone thinks he's the saviour of WWE. It's on record that Regal does 90% of the talent scouting, that Dusty did 90% of the work with guys in developmental, that HHH is the man behind Roman's push while Vince was angling for crowd-favourite Big E.....yet the narrative is still that Vince is on Roman's jockstrap, HHH is the sane voice of reason, and HHH is the man who picked out, signed, and groomed all your indie favourites. The man is a master of taking credit for others' success and blaming others for his shortcomings.
As for everything else he is the definition of B+ Player.
He was a solid enough wrestler, definitely not a bad wrestler, but outside of a No DQ environment he didn't really put on many great matches, and he ALWAYS needed a 5-star performer opposite him to get a top match. His best non-gimmick match was probably the Daniel Bryan match IMO, and frankly if he couldn't have had a good match on that occasion with Daniel freaking Bryan that'd have said a lot. With HBK, Undertaker, Foley, Austin, Rock etc. he could put on good matches, provided they had gimmicks to hide his limitations. Never a great athlete, but decent enough at storytelling & ring psychology even if most of the time it was the same 'old school heel dominance' story.
Promo wise? He was....okay. Good at putting himself over, pretty damn terrible at building up his opponent, mediocre at hyping his own matches, and had a tendency to use 15 minutes to say what should have taken 3. But he had his moments as a promo, usually if he had someone else to play off who was either better on the mic, or better at working the crowd.
Charisma? Sure he could work a crowd, but he was not an effortless entertainer like Rock or Austin or HBK and didn't have the natural connection of Punk or Bryan or Foley. He could get a pop, he could play a crowd, but how many goddamn nicknames and catchphrases did the Cereberal King of Ass Kicker Game True Destroyers who is That Damn Good try to get over? How many actually took? He was always a worse face than heel, sure there's plenty of greats who could only really play one, but the real best can do both, and HHH only could really play a face through nostalgic goodwill and riding off of HBK's popularity.
Looks? Yeah, he had a good look, I can't argue with this one. He's always been pretty good at having a good look, save that mid 00s off-the-juice bloat period.
But really, if HHH hadn't had the politicking skill he had from long before he met Stephanie, he'd probably be the Dolph Ziggler of the Attitude Era, the successful solid hand who flirted with the top briefly but just wasn't really good enough in any 1 area to carry a brand. Because really, he just never was That Damn Good.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Jan 7, 2018 8:46:20 GMT -5
Said it before, will say it until the day I die - there are two types of wrestlers: those who draw money and those who work with guys who draw money. Triple H has never drawn a dime on his own. He needed people like Foley, Taker, Austin, Shawn, Owen, Kane, Booker, RVD, Jericho, Edge, Cena and Punk to draw. Punk called him on it before he quit: “Due respect, you need me. I don’t need you.” So, I repeat to him - you need me as a fan to watch the product. I don’t need you to make me watch the product. I've never understood this logic. A champion is only as good as their opponents. Who would buy a ticket to see Austin wrestle Headbanger Mosh? Triple H as the WWF champion in 2000 was phenomenal, and people were definitely buying tickets to see him get beat as much as they were buying tickets for anybody else. HHH is one of my probably top ten favorites, but he's never legitimately been 'the guy'. He has always, always been the foil to whoever the guy was. This is a way of phrasing it that I can understand at least, that he was never 'the guy.' But then Triple H's absolute peak is 2000, when he was a heel, and the WWF has always been a face territory. I still think an argument can be made that when Austin got injured, Triple H was 'the guy' until he dropped the title to The Rock at Backlash 2000. Are these really burials? Who should he have feuded with? Why doesn’t anyone think he buried Nash or Steiner? I agree that he was basically playing four horsemen during that time, but he lost the first Elimination Chamber, jobbed twice to Goldberg, lost twice to Shelton Benjamin, tapped out to Benoit, played awesome manipulator to Eugene, and put over Batista, essentially being the one to help Batista to the next level. Yes, there were hiccups, he should’ve lost at WM 19, but still...burial doesn’t mean wrestler you like loses. It’s intenionally making someone look like a fool, a lot of times in a shoot way, with no progression of story or reason. Yeah. There is definitely a difference between a burial and the wrong guy winning. Triple H often made himself look way too good in winning a match, but he would often make guys look great during the match until he won. Booker's example is absolutely a burial simply because Triple H winning was catastrophically wrong as a choice and because of how the match ended, a clean win after like a 90 second snooze after a Pedigree. Goldberg shouldn't have lost, but he lost dirty and having been obliterated by a bunch of guys, having already destroyed a bunch himself as it is. |
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Post by The Rick Jericho on Jan 7, 2018 13:48:28 GMT -5
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Post by Toilet Paper Roll on Jan 7, 2018 14:14:29 GMT -5
Im a fan of Triple H, but his level of excellence in the WWE kayfabe world is just sooooooooooooo beyond what it is in the real world. Its tough to take
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Post by Skeletor on Jan 7, 2018 14:42:01 GMT -5
If this were someone I'm not a fan of, say Nash, or context changed, Shane doing this, I'd hate it. But it's Hunter so I love it. It's such a blind spot and I'm very aware of it, but I can't not love him (and Steph). It's always entertaining to me. At the same time I understand the outpouring of scorn from many.  ![]() |
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Post by Can you afford to pay me, Gah on Jan 7, 2018 15:22:46 GMT -5
One thing I will give HHH- he's possibly the best of all time at politicking. Killed fan favourites momentum left, right & centre even when he was no longer an active wrestler (Booker T, RVD, Jericho, Punk, arguably Goldberg, arguably Kane), brought his buddies in to hog the spotlight ahead of those more over guys (Summer Of Punk Nash), pushing himself beyond his own skills, chumping out other wrestlers for no good reason (Londrick, Hurricane, Barrett), inserting himself into other peoples' more popular shtick in defiance of story or continuity (SHHHield)....and yet despite all this all he has to do is take a few selfies with indie starlets and everyone thinks he's the saviour of WWE. It's on record that Regal does 90% of the talent scouting, that Dusty did 90% of the work with guys in developmental, that HHH is the man behind Roman's push while Vince was angling for crowd-favourite Big E.....yet the narrative is still that Vince is on Roman's jockstrap, HHH is the sane voice of reason, and HHH is the man who picked out, signed, and groomed all your indie favourites. The man is a master of taking credit for others' success and blaming others for his shortcomings. As for everything else he is the definition of B+ Player. He was a solid enough wrestler, definitely not a bad wrestler, but outside of a No DQ environment he didn't really put on many great matches, and he ALWAYS needed a 5-star performer opposite him to get a top match. His best non-gimmick match was probably the Daniel Bryan match IMO, and frankly if he couldn't have had a good match on that occasion with Daniel freaking Bryan that'd have said a lot. With HBK, Undertaker, Foley, Austin, Rock etc. he could put on good matches, provided they had gimmicks to hide his limitations. Never a great athlete, but decent enough at storytelling & ring psychology even if most of the time it was the same 'old school heel dominance' story. Promo wise? He was....okay. Good at putting himself over, pretty damn terrible at building up his opponent, mediocre at hyping his own matches, and had a tendency to use 15 minutes to say what should have taken 3. But he had his moments as a promo, usually if he had someone else to play off who was either better on the mic, or better at working the crowd. Charisma? Sure he could work a crowd, but he was not an effortless entertainer like Rock or Austin or HBK and didn't have the natural connection of Punk or Bryan or Foley. He could get a pop, he could play a crowd, but how many goddamn nicknames and catchphrases did the Cereberal King of Ass Kicker Game True Destroyers who is That Damn Good try to get over? How many actually took? He was always a worse face than heel, sure there's plenty of greats who could only really play one, but the real best can do both, and HHH only could really play a face through nostalgic goodwill and riding off of HBK's popularity. Looks? Yeah, he had a good look, I can't argue with this one. He's always been pretty good at having a good look, save that mid 00s off-the-juice bloat period. But really, if HHH hadn't had the politicking skill he had from long before he met Stephanie, he'd probably be the Dolph Ziggler of the Attitude Era, the successful solid hand who flirted with the top briefly but just wasn't really good enough in any 1 area to carry a brand. Because really, he just never was That Damn Good. This his HHH good but he not great like he thinks he is. His best matches as always been against someone that is either a must better worker making him look better or is bumping like crazy for him (Foley). Now HHH would been World Champion but without Stephanie he likely been half the times champion he ended up having, and I'm not sure without his kliq friends mainly HBK being around if he still have a job in 02 because he came back looking good but his matches where terrible until he got to Summer Slam and 03 getting hurt and again match suffered a lot, would he still been around if he wasn't married and friends in high places? His promos honestly gotten worst instead of better over the years. Once he went away from the angry heel he was and started to become Evolution Ric Flairish he started that 15 min promo of boring. Over the years it been mostly the same with a hint of his better stuff when he was doing the D-X stuff and the face runs. Than he put the suit on and became really bland, his heel authority role as been horrible because that bland ton he uses. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2018 15:29:44 GMT -5
If this were someone I'm not a fan of, say Nash, or context changed, Shane doing this, I'd hate it. But it's Hunter so I love it. It's such a blind spot and I'm very aware of it, but I can't not love him (and Steph). It's always entertaining to me. At the same time I understand the outpouring of scorn from many. ![]() This is a hill I will die on |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2018 17:33:24 GMT -5
HHH is the definition of “jack of all trades, master of none”. He can do a bit of everything but he’s not great at anything. He’s been pushed like a God tier talent but is no where near one, which might explain why he undercuts talent and keeps himself looking strong when it doesn’t help business.
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Post by sportatorium on Jan 7, 2018 17:34:40 GMT -5
The first one with Edge is just an overbooked segment that was supposed to:
1.Reintroduce Edge
2. Entertain the crowd with the yes chants
3. Have HHH cut a heel promo
4. Get heat on the heels for beating up Christian because they can’t beat up Edge.
The segment is booked like garbage because the point should be to turn up the heat between Bryan & Randy.
The second one probably is HHH trying to work some heat & using the The thing that he knows will get him booed. Watch Orton’s body language when he starts burying the other wrestlers, even he knows that it’s going to backfire. Stephanie is staring into space at one point. If HHH was as smart to the business as everyone makes him out to be, he would have at some point stopped being the C-Span of heel wrestlers & got in his promo, taken a cheap shot and left to really trigger emotions with the fans.
The moment where Bryan challenges him to stop hiding behind the suit & wrestle is what sends him on the diatribe about Jericho & company. Why not have Bryan call him a coward, have Hunter show his ass a bit throwing a tantrum & do a 2 on 1 attack with Randy. Allow Orton & Bryan to tell the story & he & Shawn can be the supporting cast. He doesn’t have the genes to do that & it’s why people will seemingly always have problems with him.
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Post by HMARK Center on Jan 8, 2018 7:46:09 GMT -5
Im a fan of Triple H, but his level of excellence in the WWE kayfabe world is just sooooooooooooo beyond what it is in the real world. Its tough to take Yeah, the problem has long been that you could easily interpret Triple H's main character trait as "he's very insecure and goes to excruciating lengths to make himself appear to be the best and most badass of all time, and it bites him sometimes", but the problem is they book him like he's the biggest badass of all time without almost any hints of irony or self-awareness. It's meant to be taken seriously when it should serve as an interesting character flaw. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2018 12:25:33 GMT -5
To the "Triple H isn't as great as he thinks he is" type of situation I got a question.
How great do you think he thinks he is? I mean we know what the company thinks about how great the guy is but has he ever made any comment towards his own legacy and status?
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Jan 8, 2018 12:52:40 GMT -5
For those that keep saying HHH wouldn't be right to run based upon his past transgressions, he's so far shown the ability to separate his character self from the person who's in charge.
Shit gets ugly when you come at his ego
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Post by Feargus McReddit on Jan 8, 2018 12:55:38 GMT -5
Im a fan of Triple H, but his level of excellence in the WWE kayfabe world is just sooooooooooooo beyond what it is in the real world. Its tough to take Yeah, the problem has long been that you could easily interpret Triple H's main character trait as "he's very insecure and goes to excruciating lengths to make himself appear to be the best and most badass of all time, and it bites him sometimes", but the problem is they book him like he's the biggest badass of all time without almost any hints of irony or self-awareness. It's meant to be taken seriously when it should serve as an interesting character flaw. It was the one glaring thing that annoyed me about Max Landis' Wrestling isn't Wrestling. Like, he was trying to make it off like HHH was this well built character that thinks he's a badass but he's shown as not when...that's pretty much the narrative they've built for him on commentary or in build up videos and the like. That he is this King of Kings guy whose that damn good. |
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Post by HMARK Center on Jan 8, 2018 13:19:57 GMT -5
Yeah, the problem has long been that you could easily interpret Triple H's main character trait as "he's very insecure and goes to excruciating lengths to make himself appear to be the best and most badass of all time, and it bites him sometimes", but the problem is they book him like he's the biggest badass of all time without almost any hints of irony or self-awareness. It's meant to be taken seriously when it should serve as an interesting character flaw. It was the one glaring thing that annoyed me about Max Landis' Wrestling isn't Wrestling. Like, he was trying to make it off like HHH was this well built character that thinks he's a badass but he's shown as not when...that's pretty much the narrative they've built for him on commentary or in build up videos and the like. That he is this King of Kings guy whose that damn good. Exactly; that video constructed a character arc that didn't really exist, it was actually Trips' real life ego and insecurities being put on screen in the interest of making himself look great. It's fun to read beneath the surface like that, but it wasn't the story being told. |
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Post by crowley1986 on Jan 8, 2018 19:43:45 GMT -5
Pritchard did note on his podcast on Edge, Hunter and HBK, were really down on Edge in 2004 and kinda wanting him gone since he was injury prone
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Cranjis McBasketball
Crow T. Robot
Knew what the hell that thing was supposed to be
It's Just a Ride
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Post by Cranjis McBasketball on Jan 8, 2018 19:54:46 GMT -5
To the "Triple H isn't as great as he thinks he is" type of situation I got a question. How great do you think he thinks he is? I mean we know what the company thinks about how great the guy is but has he ever made any comment towards his own legacy and status? He’s basically framed himself as god in WWE. King of Kings, Thy Kingdom Come. He thinks he’s pretty great. |
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Post by The Rick Jericho on Jan 8, 2018 19:55:18 GMT -5
Pritchard did note on his podcast on Edge, Hunter and HBK, were really down on Edge in 2004 and kinda wanting him gone since he was injury prone I'm surprised about Shawn because they worked a program together afterwards. And he put him over. HHH obviously it goes deep a few years of hatred. |
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Post by The Rick Jericho on Jan 8, 2018 19:59:14 GMT -5
To the "Triple H isn't as great as he thinks he is" type of situation I got a question. How great do you think he thinks he is? I mean we know what the company thinks about how great the guy is but has he ever made any comment towards his own legacy and status? He’s basically framed himself as god in WWE. King of Kings, Thy Kingdom Come. He thinks he’s pretty great. Wasn't there a quote saying he felt no one out him over or help to out him over? Also: |
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