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Post by Magic knows Black Lives Matter on Jan 15, 2018 18:50:43 GMT -5
He's got Roman cloned. Therefore, the Big Dog will never leave him.
...That's the only excuse for being on another's man dick this much.
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fw91
Crow T. Robot
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Post by fw91 on Jan 15, 2018 19:39:30 GMT -5
Except Cena's rise was 100% natural, and pushed by the fans. They let him be the rapper, and he got red hot. Cena got to the top spot because the fans demanded it. From the moment he got the rapper gimmick till about November 2005 (Batista's rise), Cena may have been the hottest guy in the company. I really wish people would stop rewriting history when it comes to Cena. The guy was called up WAY too early without a fully established character outside of his Prototype gimmick (thus his vanilla CAW look at the beginning), and was relegated to king of Velocity for the first 6 months of his career. Hell, they almost fired his ass that same year had it not been for Steph going to bat for him. Your right about Cena in regards to his pre rapper days. But that gimmick got the fans behind him and his main event push was organic. Discrediting that is a bit revionist imo. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2018 19:49:50 GMT -5
They lucked out with Cena in that he was really good at dealing with the mixed and negative reactions. Reigns isn't half as good. Sheamus had the same problem Reigns is having when they were dead set on HIM being "the guy". One can easily use Sheamus as an example of how dangerous a Cena push can be, but its been forgotten. In 2012, Sheamus was geared as the #1 face in the company, & it couldn't work. They shunted him against Bryan out of contractual obligations due to winning the Rumble, then 18 seconds happened (seriously, had they let them actually work, it would have been nowhere near as damaging), then he became an insufferable good guy where the story flow for him was that he'd win every match heading to a PPV... And he would win there, too. Sometimes, there was a wrinkle where the Brogue Kick was banned, but it was reinstated moments before the actual match started, rendering that element pointless. By making him invincible, he pissed off a lot of fans, and it wasn't until fall where they realized it wasn't working anymore. It wasn't until The Bar when he finally got back into good graces with fans, and that had a turbulent start. This was after another WWE Championship run, which ironically was where Roman's problems became more pronounced. If this fails, given how in 2012, Sheamus was on the B-team and therefore didn't matter to the bottom line, then this could set everybody back years. Sadly, I know it will fail. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2018 20:00:51 GMT -5
It depends, even though he gets booed it's mostly been even for a good while but even besides that the thing Cena has that Roman doesn't is when Cena wins a match regardless if people booed him prior, people cheer. Reigns gets booed through the end. also a lot of people chant both Let's go Cena and Cena Sucks since it became what you do during Cena Matches. and again Cena was also the top merch mover by miles for years. Yep for Cena it's like Angle's "you suck" thing more than anyone actually disliking him. |
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Bub (BLM)
Patti Mayonnaise
advocates duck on rodent violence
Fed. Up.
Posts: 37,742
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Post by Bub (BLM) on Jan 15, 2018 20:30:41 GMT -5
Im pretty sure it's because he's just good enough at everything Vince wants. Look? Good enough. Mic skills? Good enough. In ring? Good enough. Compare that to say Ambrose. Good matches, great promos, Vince likely hates his look.
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Post by Tenshigure on Jan 15, 2018 21:31:53 GMT -5
I really wish people would stop rewriting history when it comes to Cena. The guy was called up WAY too early without a fully established character outside of his Prototype gimmick (thus his vanilla CAW look at the beginning), and was relegated to king of Velocity for the first 6 months of his career. Hell, they almost fired his ass that same year had it not been for Steph going to bat for him. Your right about Cena in regards to his pre rapper days. But that gimmick got the fans behind him and his main event push was organic. Discrediting that is a bit revionist imo. That's exactly what I'm trying to say here though. So many people try to play off like Cena was handed the top spot much like how Roman has since his main roster debut, when the truth is that he floundered for over half a year before finding his niche that made him endearing to the crowds. He had to fight tooth and nail to stay relevant on Velocity of all shows, and built his fanbase organically from there. The fanbase really didn't start turning on him until his won the WWE Championship from JBL in 2005, a good three years into his run. |
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Kyn
Don Corleone
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Post by Kyn on Jan 15, 2018 21:36:06 GMT -5
A. Genetically speaking, Roman's the closest thing Vince has to another Rock. And we loved the Rock, so we should love Roman.
B. We eventually accepted Cena being shoved down our throats, so eventually we'll accept Roman.
That's what I think Vince thinks, anyway.
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Sephiroth
Wade Wilson
Surviving
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Post by Sephiroth on Jan 15, 2018 21:39:34 GMT -5
Correct me if I’m wrong, I am under the impression that the crowd turning e timely positive for Cena was actually a comparatively recent turn of events, and that it was likely related in no small part to both him becoming a part timer and increasingly putting over other talent. A combo of absence making the heart grow fonder and the simple end of the repetition of LOLCENAWINS.
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Kyn
Don Corleone
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Post by Kyn on Jan 15, 2018 21:46:07 GMT -5
Correct me if I’m wrong, I am under the impression that the crowd turning e timely positive for Cena was actually a comparatively recent turn of events, and that it was likely related in no small part to both him becoming a part timer and increasingly putting over other talent. A combo of absence making the heart grow fonder and the simple end of the repetition of LOLCENAWINS. There's definitely a correlation. The less we see Cena, the more we like him. |
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Post by angryfan on Jan 15, 2018 21:46:53 GMT -5
Even then, it didn't work THAT well with Cena considering ratings were dropping and such, albeit much slower than in recent times. I'm pretty sure the first couple of years of Cena's push correlated to an increase in ratings and attendance. Not a huge increase but a slight bump. Roman hasn't moved the needle at all. I'd argue that he has moved it, just in the wrong direction. He's main evented the last few Manias, he's been "coronated" repeatedly, he beat Taker at Mania, he's the focal point. Yet, 20 percent of the audience, at least, say "screw it" before RAW is over. So if he's "The Guy" and Vince's mindset is one guy akes it all happen adn everone else is secondary, then it's on Reigns, and only Reigns, that people are tuning out. |
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Post by Stu on Jan 16, 2018 1:10:53 GMT -5
Someone remind me when and to who Vince gave that angry rant about people always leaving him
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Jan 16, 2018 1:43:03 GMT -5
Probably because it kinda worked with Cena. I mean eventually. But Roman's not doing the Merch numbers that Cena is... and from all accounts when he was #2 on the list #3 was right behind him. Which is f***ing crazy when you think about how much effort WWE has put behind him and how hard they've made him so important. Like imagine if they had given that #3 guy the same megapush; maybe they would have a real star on their hands. If the company is spending all of this effort on Roman and someone who isn't as cool or unstoppable or sexy or powerful can almost eke out the same numbers then clearly they're doing something real f***ing wrong. |
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Jonathan Michaels
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Post by Jonathan Michaels on Jan 16, 2018 3:07:27 GMT -5
Correct me if I’m wrong, I am under the impression that the crowd turning e timely positive for Cena was actually a comparatively recent turn of events, and that it was likely related in no small part to both him becoming a part timer and increasingly putting over other talent. A combo of absence making the heart grow fonder and the simple end of the repetition of LOLCENAWINS. There's definitely a correlation. The less we see Cena, the more we like him. This is known as the Jeff Jarrett effect. TNA fans missed him greatly when he left, then groaned when he came back. |
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Post by HMARK Center on Jan 16, 2018 6:38:29 GMT -5
Interesting that some of you guys brought up Sheamus: he was another one they wanted to push to the top, but if I remember correctly didn't they start him out by giving him a fluke title win in a tables match with Cena? Another example of wanting a guy to be top dog, but booking him so he's not TOO impressive looking, God forbid.
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Post by kingoftheindies on Jan 16, 2018 8:56:34 GMT -5
Interesting that some of you guys brought up Sheamus: he was another one they wanted to push to the top, but if I remember correctly didn't they start him out by giving him a fluke title win in a tables match with Cena? Another example of wanting a guy to be top dog, but booking him so he's not TOO impressive looking, God forbid. That did happen but the other issue is they couldn't decide if they wanted Sheamus to be a badass or a chickenshit heel which hurt him. Then he had a pretty good initial face turn against Mark Henry but they then made him Cena Jr. As for Reigns... I continue to say they were doing fine with him until his hernia surgery, then instead of restarting the clock on his push they were dead set on him being the guy at San Fran and he had no momentum |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2018 10:04:36 GMT -5
Almost everyone gets more and more stubborn the older they get. He's 72 years old.
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Post by The Heartbreak TWERK on Jan 16, 2018 10:16:50 GMT -5
Roman has had injuries or illnesses when he either had momentum or was at least poised to build some goodwill.
That hernia killed his momentum dead and having meningitis right before the Shield reunion match both hurt him, one obviously much more than the other.
Dude’s not going to make it on this course.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2018 14:03:24 GMT -5
Meanwhile, Vince got old. So, he thinks HIS idea of what men should be really IS still prevalent in culture, because that's easier than actually keeping up with the times. So these fans that won't accept a perfect specimen like Reigns must just be broken weirdos; it makes no sense that they actually prefer a different type of person or have different ideas about what a man "should be." He thinks NORMAL people, the mainstream audience, still want Real American Lex Luger. I take umbrage at this theory. If the standard big, tough, dominant, fearless meathead wrestler wasn't relevant anymore, Lesnar and Strowman wouldn't be as over as they are. Is Vince stuck in the past? Absolutely. But in wrestling, some things really don't change. |
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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Jan 16, 2018 14:40:51 GMT -5
Meanwhile, Vince got old. So, he thinks HIS idea of what men should be really IS still prevalent in culture, because that's easier than actually keeping up with the times. So these fans that won't accept a perfect specimen like Reigns must just be broken weirdos; it makes no sense that they actually prefer a different type of person or have different ideas about what a man "should be." He thinks NORMAL people, the mainstream audience, still want Real American Lex Luger. I take umbrage at this theory. If the standard big, tough, dominant, fearless meathead wrestler wasn't relevant anymore, Lesnar and Strowman wouldn't be as over as they are. Is Vince stuck in the past? Absolutely. But in wrestling, some things really don't change. Lesnar is an exception: He's over (kinda) because he's treated as special and literally no one else is. Also MMA has something to do with it, but that just speaks to wrestling's bizarre obsession with proving that MMA fighters are better and tougher than pro wrestlers. And Strowman is very much not a Reigns/Luger type, he's built more like a weightlifter than a glam metal bodybuilder. (And if they pushed him like Reigns, he'd get not over very quickly.) But you're right, Strowman IS manly in a particular old-school way. That doesn't NOT exist. But certainly the definition of masculinity has EXPANDED, and Vince either doesn't know it or hates it. |
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JCBaggee
Hank Scorpio
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Post by JCBaggee on Jan 16, 2018 14:44:29 GMT -5
Vince isn't stubborn about Roman. Vince is stubborn about Vince. If Vince changed his mind about Roman, he'd drop him in a heartbeat, but no one else is going to convince him otherwise.
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