Paul
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Post by Paul on Apr 6, 2018 4:41:51 GMT -5
Noah put a video blog out years ago of him reviewing (I think) a Transformers movie while drinking and whining and moaning about it and I thought "Dude, your "job" is to review movies and video games and you're treating it like your best friend just died. Get over yourself".
Apparently years ago Noah's dad got him a job a Boeing but (surprise) he burned that bridge and got fired after like 3 months.
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Post by Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!! on Apr 6, 2018 4:47:08 GMT -5
It doesn't tie into anything that's been said, but because this is a Spoony thread, I feel it has to be posted: if in the end, there's only one positive thing people still remember about Spoony, I hope it's this moment. single funniest rant he has ever gone on.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Apr 6, 2018 14:38:52 GMT -5
It doesn't tie into anything that's been said, but because this is a Spoony thread, I feel it has to be posted: if in the end, there's only one positive thing people still remember about Spoony, I hope it's this moment. single funniest rant he has ever gone on. Watching the first couple of episodes you can see why he originally made a series out of it.
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Post by HMARK Center on Apr 6, 2018 15:33:07 GMT -5
I'm pulling a theory out of my ear, here, but it does feel like a lot of the times what separates the really successful internet content creators (successful meaning both professionally and in their personal lives, at least as best as we can tell from the outside looking in) from those that end up mired in all of the insane and often inane drama that seems to surround this stuff is a combination of personal maturity at the time success was achieved, and a work ethic that stems from coming into the job with a background in the necessary areas that being a content creator requires at least a modicum of knowledge over.
It's noteworthy, for example, that content creators like James Rolfe, Lindsay Ellis, and the people at Red Letter Media all came from a background in film studies/film school; folks like Bob Chipman similarly seem to at least have training in the field (not sure what Bob majored in) or at least experience in studying the art of criticism and some graduate-level reading/writing/analysis skills. Not saying all of those things are 100% necessary for success, as it would feel like an elitist gesture to suggest that "only those with degrees or MAs can be successful" in these areas, but it's more indicative of the fact that it's difficult to get into something like this that demands a lot of time, creative energy, and commitment if you don't already have some training in filmmaking, in writing, in acting, in reading, in critical thinking and analysis, etc. Even the Super Best Friends YouTube channel, which just seems like a group of friends having fun goofing on both great and horrifically crappy games and movies, is still run by guys who studied editing, art, game design, and other subject areas pretty deeply before they hit it big, and it often shows in their output being strong on a technical level. I also enjoy the PopArena YouTube channel, and it shows in Greg's work that he's pretty well studied not only in 90s TV/film/literary pop culture, but in cultural interpretation and analysis.
Basically, that level of study also implies a level of passion, and if you're going to go all-out and try to make a go of being somebody who makes a living in that realm, passion is the coin of the realm, as it drives and solidifies the will to work, to hustle, to keep up on things, etc. It's the type of thing that allows somebody to get enjoyment out of producing something even if there's not a ton of views for your videos or if you're only making a small amount on your Patreon. The aforementioned PopArena channel rarely hits 10,000 views for a video, but the output remains strong and Greg, the guy behind it, seems pretty content with where he's at, getting to produce content he clearly cares about.
Then there's the personal maturity side, which, to be fair, we as outsiders are not in a position to fully judge; for all we know, some of the content creators we believe to be perfectly fine people could have intensely unhealthy home lives, and we might never find out. Still, sometimes it seems to show: the dust up over Channel Awesome lately largely seems to stem from Doug Walker, a guy who has the ability to do something about his management's poor behavior, just not wanting to get involved, not wanting to own up and take responsibility for something going wrong that he could potentially change. Spoony, here, who I am admittedly not highly familiar with, seemed to get a bit lucky hitting it big because his sense of humor just happened to click with audiences when he first started making videos, and it launched him from anonymity and a slow-forming professional life toward early YouTube stardom...while that's certainly not Hollywood levels of fame, it's still something to be reckoned with, and can be a lot for someone who just maybe half a year previous might've been doing grunt work somewhere while not being able to save very much in the bank.
No one is immune from drama or self-made crises, but the early boom in online criticism really did open doors for people who might've just been thinking "wow, I can having fun saying wacky stuff about movies, games, and other mediums and genres I like and I can make a LIVING off of it?!", rather than thinking "I'm incredibly passionate about filmmaking/game development/writing/etc. and want to use this new platform to get my views, writings, et. al. out there, because it's what I love." This isn't to say people like Walker or Antwiler don't have passion for the things they love, but there are levels of commitment to improving and growing as a content creator that might be harder to arrive at if you got the "big overnight" treatment the way they did.
Obviously, Antwiler's mental issues don't help the situation any, either, and the combination of mental health issues and sudden fame and success cannot be a positive mixture all of the time. Suddenly, where once you were seemingly anonymous, now you're a "public figure", and a lot more people are going to care what you say or do about certain matters or issues. There's responsibility that comes with that, which not everybody is ready for. It means going to things like conventions and meeting people who are going to "geek out" over you, which can be really uncomfortable, but recognizing that it's part of what comes with the territory. It means that you're also in a business, and often that means having to keep many masters happy (management if you're part of a group, patrons if you're getting money that way, etc.) and not "just getting to talk about movies" or whatever. It feels like a number of people who have run into this drama blender seem to have a bit of an issue leaving extended adolescence behind; after all, you got famous for reviewing things you loved from your childhood, so why would you give any of that up, right? And hell, think of how much stuff we've been reading/hearing about these things lately deal with sex and relationships; not to completely stereotype, but a lot of "pop culture fans" who grew up loving comics, superheroes, video games, etc. might not have been the most active on the dating scene in our youths; consider suddenly getting famous for liking that stuff right around college age, and think of what that suddenly does to your dating prospects, and ask yourself if you'd actually be equipped to handle it at that age. Getting big on YouTube or whatever circa 2008 was kind of the wild West; the rules had not been written, there were no set expectations, and I can't even imagine how, say, the parents of some of the overnight sensations were able to talk to them about handling it, as it was just something so new and unfamiliar to everyone, not only adults.
Guess this stuff has been on my mind a lot lately because I'd like to make another go at doing some content creating online, but man, I dread to think what I would have been like if I had, I don't know, become "internet famous" at age 23 or something, because God knows I was clueless back then and, while I always had a passion for writing and learning, I did not have the necessary training in any relevant area to really make that all work outside of my music conservatory training, and I most certainly did not have the self-awareness and maturity to grasp the responsibilities that come with stuff like this.
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Paul
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Post by Paul on Apr 6, 2018 16:06:11 GMT -5
Noah is 37 going on 14. It isn't just his angry, whiney, "i'm a victim" outbursts. It's the fact that he cannot handle any criticism of any kind whatsoever. He comes off like one of those people who was endlessly praised by his parents growing up and then he gets a little older and can't handle anything but being absolutely fawned over. I can't understand where else this massive ego of his comes from because the guy seems to have been a total failure at everything he's tried to do except for the handful of years he had some measure of success doing The Spoony Experiment videos (and he even ended up not being able to handle that- probably the easiest, most lucrative "job" he'd ever get).
And I swear if he plays the "mental issues / health problems" card one more time... Hey Noah, lots of other people have health issues too- and many of them are more severe or more debilitating and they somehow manage to A). Get their work done and B). Not be grifters. If you're so sick that you can't make internet videos then stop accepting money from people and shut down your website.
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BorneAgain
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Post by BorneAgain on Apr 6, 2018 16:32:14 GMT -5
I'm pulling a theory out of my ear, here, but it does feel like a lot of the times what separates the really successful internet content creators (successful meaning both professionally and in their personal lives, at least as best as we can tell from the outside looking in) from those that end up mired in all of the insane and often inane drama that seems to surround this stuff is a combination of personal maturity at the time success was achieved, and a work ethic that stems from coming into the job with a background in the necessary areas that being a content creator requires at least a modicum of knowledge over. Another critical aspect of this is coming down gently from any huge ambitions/dreams and adjusting one's plans/output accordingly. I don't think its a coincidence that Doug and Noah are reported to have had the biggest aspirations about their future careers and have also had the hardest time when those didn't quite pan out. I think Spoony hit a point where he realized where any name/career beyond web video had slipped away to the point of being extremely unlikely, and fell into a spiral of non-content followed by bitterness/guilt about that lack of content and then non-content and so on and so forth. This is just speculation I know, but it feels like something along those lines. I also suspect the failure of Demo Reel also brought Doug down a lot more than he's ever completely let on. A lot of his content since is someone playing it safe, back to the same old shtick even though many of his peers have moved on in terms of their work. Its notable that he didn't even try a happy medium of doing both shows or maybe even adjusting Demo Reel to a reduced schedule; for him it was having his auteur vision realized or back to the assembly line content of Nostalgia Critic. The Review Must Go On is basically a very bitter manifesto about him having to go backward rather than forward in his career, again demonstrating his lack of nuance or compromise when it comes to what kind of work he wants to do. The sad irony is that the material of The Review Must Go On actually made for far more interesting story than anything of his Hollywood critiques on Demo Reel and I'm left to wonder if he couldn't have satisfied his artistic inclinations somewhat via shifting DR into a show about the artistic struggles as web content creator while still continuing to do Nostalgia Critic. Using one show to in essence dissect/examine the other could have made him stand out and would have been something different. But what is Doug Walker's current career if not an exercise in wasted opportunities?
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Post by HMARK Center on Apr 6, 2018 17:47:45 GMT -5
I'm pulling a theory out of my ear, here, but it does feel like a lot of the times what separates the really successful internet content creators (successful meaning both professionally and in their personal lives, at least as best as we can tell from the outside looking in) from those that end up mired in all of the insane and often inane drama that seems to surround this stuff is a combination of personal maturity at the time success was achieved, and a work ethic that stems from coming into the job with a background in the necessary areas that being a content creator requires at least a modicum of knowledge over. Another critical aspect of this is coming down gently from any huge ambitions/dreams and adjusting one's plans/output accordingly. I don't think its a coincidence that Doug and Noah are reported to have had the biggest aspirations about their future careers and have also had the hardest time when those didn't quite pan out. I think Spoony hit a point where he realized where any name/career beyond web video had slipped away to the point of being extremely unlikely, and fell into a spiral of non-content followed by bitterness/guilt about that lack of content and then non-content and so on and so forth. This is just speculation I know, but it feels like something along those lines. I also suspect the failure of Demo Reel also brought Doug down a lot more than he's ever completely let on. A lot of his content since is someone playing it safe, back to the same old shtick even though many of his peers have moved on in terms of their work. Its notable that he didn't even try a happy medium of doing both shows or maybe even adjusting Demo Reel to a reduced schedule; for him it was having his auteur vision realized or back to the assembly line content of Nostalgia Critic. The Review Must Go On is basically a very bitter manifesto about him having to go backward rather than forward in his career, again demonstrating his lack of nuance or compromise when it comes to what kind of work he wants to do. The sad irony is that the material of The Review Must Go On actually made for far more interesting story than anything of his Hollywood critiques on Demo Reel and I'm left to wonder if he couldn't have satisfied his artistic inclinations somewhat via shifting DR into a show about the artistic struggles as web content creator while still continuing to do Nostalgia Critic. Using one show to in essence dissect/examine the other could have made him stand out and would have been something different. But what is Doug Walker's current career if not an exercise in wasted opportunities? And that certainly ties into the issue of the early days of this scene being so wide open and uncharted, I suppose: I wonder how many of these guys and gals thought there was a huge pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, maybe a chance to be on TV or in the movies, or at least more directly tied to "the industry" as a writer or what have you, but the cold reality set in as YouTube and related platforms leveled out in terms of the levels of notoriety they can offer. Heck, I'm sure it had to be kind of dispiriting early on when some of the online content creators to hit it biggest were the types of people we regularly scratch our heads about today, the ones that get by on just doing silly voices, acting like children in public, screaming over jump scare video games, or (ugh) taking videos of dead bodies in forests. But, again...if Doug or Noah really wanted to take that next step, they had to figure out what, exactly they were most driven by. Were they most driven by getting to perform? To write? To direct? To edit? To analyze? Whichever (and it can be more than one of those things!), they had to take tangible steps to get better at that thing that made them feel the greatest rush, and grow in that area as much as possible. Maybe they did in some cases, but I can't help but feel that for a lot of these folks who were on the forefront of this style of online content, they were in large part driven by just being fans of something(s), of just wanting to watch and talk about the things they like, without realizing that it's tough to keep that act up if you don't take the next step and improve and refine your style and, maybe more importantly, your knowledge over time.
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Paul
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Post by Paul on Apr 6, 2018 18:08:12 GMT -5
Noah and Doug had no chance of being actors because neither of them can act. It's as simple as that.. Doing little comedy skits for review videos is not what I consider to be acting. Noah lacks the maturity to take direction from anyone.
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Post by BayleyTiffyCodyCenaJudyHopps on Apr 6, 2018 18:19:17 GMT -5
If Doug wasn't Nostalgia Critic, I think he could have been a decent voice actor for kids' cartoons or otherwise.
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Jiren
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Post by Jiren on Apr 6, 2018 18:26:50 GMT -5
Noah and Doug had no chance of being actors because neither of them can act. It's as simple as that.. Doing little comedy skits for review videos is not what I consider to be acting. Noah lacks the maturity to take direction from anyone. Yeah Doug is pretty terrible
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Paul
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Post by Paul on Apr 6, 2018 18:35:52 GMT -5
This is an early Noah video where he talks about the genesis of TSE and Burton The Robot. His first idea was a movie about a game store (an interesting idea). When that didn't pan out, his idea was to just rip-off MST3k. He probably could have done a good job of that, but it's kind of disappointing that is the idea he came up with as a backup plan.
I do like the look of that ultraviolet light cleaner thing- it does look like something from Star Trek. I guess if you're going to rip someone off, Joel Hodgson is a pretty smart and creative guy to copy.
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Paul
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Post by Paul on Apr 6, 2018 18:38:20 GMT -5
If Doug wasn't Nostalgia Critic, I think he could have been a decent voice actor for kids' cartoons or otherwise. No way (IMHO). All his voices sound too much alike and he relies on screaming too much.
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Post by BlackoutCreature on Apr 6, 2018 20:03:32 GMT -5
If Doug wasn't Nostalgia Critic, I think he could have been a decent voice actor for kids' cartoons or otherwise. No way (IMHO). All his voices sound too much alike and he relies on screaming too much. There's a difference between voice actor and voice director. A decent voice director could probably work with him and keep these issues in line if Doug was willing to listen.
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Post by A Platypus Rave is Correct on Apr 6, 2018 20:21:19 GMT -5
I'm pulling a theory out of my ear, here, but it does feel like a lot of the times what separates the really successful internet content creators (successful meaning both professionally and in their personal lives, at least as best as we can tell from the outside looking in) from those that end up mired in all of the insane and often inane drama that seems to surround this stuff is a combination of personal maturity at the time success was achieved, and a work ethic that stems from coming into the job with a background in the necessary areas that being a content creator requires at least a modicum of knowledge over. It's noteworthy, for example, that content creators like James Rolfe, Lindsay Ellis, and the people at Red Letter Media all came from a background in film studies/film school; folks like Bob Chipman similarly seem to at least have training in the field (not sure what Bob majored in) or at least experience in studying the art of criticism and some graduate-level reading/writing/analysis skills. Not saying all of those things are 100% necessary for success, as it would feel like an elitist gesture to suggest that "only those with degrees or MAs can be successful" in these areas, but it's more indicative of the fact that it's difficult to get into something like this that demands a lot of time, creative energy, and commitment if you don't already have some training in filmmaking, in writing, in acting, in reading, in critical thinking and analysis, etc. Even the Super Best Friends YouTube channel, which just seems like a group of friends having fun goofing on both great and horrifically crappy games and movies, is still run by guys who studied editing, art, game design, and other subject areas pretty deeply before they hit it big, and it often shows in their output being strong on a technical level. I also enjoy the PopArena YouTube channel, and it shows in Greg's work that he's pretty well studied not only in 90s TV/film/literary pop culture, but in cultural interpretation and analysis. Basically, that level of study also implies a level of passion, and if you're going to go all-out and try to make a go of being somebody who makes a living in that realm, passion is the coin of the realm, as it drives and solidifies the will to work, to hustle, to keep up on things, etc. It's the type of thing that allows somebody to get enjoyment out of producing something even if there's not a ton of views for your videos or if you're only making a small amount on your Patreon. The aforementioned PopArena channel rarely hits 10,000 views for a video, but the output remains strong and Greg, the guy behind it, seems pretty content with where he's at, getting to produce content he clearly cares about. Spoony before filming videos did get published work as a freelancer in the Knights of the Dinner Table Magazine. He also states that he appeared as part of a traveling dinner theater and several short movies before hand... so he had some passion for acting.
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Paul
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Post by Paul on Apr 6, 2018 20:26:12 GMT -5
I'm pulling a theory out of my ear, here, but it does feel like a lot of the times what separates the really successful internet content creators (successful meaning both professionally and in their personal lives, at least as best as we can tell from the outside looking in) from those that end up mired in all of the insane and often inane drama that seems to surround this stuff is a combination of personal maturity at the time success was achieved, and a work ethic that stems from coming into the job with a background in the necessary areas that being a content creator requires at least a modicum of knowledge over. It's noteworthy, for example, that content creators like James Rolfe, Lindsay Ellis, and the people at Red Letter Media all came from a background in film studies/film school; folks like Bob Chipman similarly seem to at least have training in the field (not sure what Bob majored in) or at least experience in studying the art of criticism and some graduate-level reading/writing/analysis skills. Not saying all of those things are 100% necessary for success, as it would feel like an elitist gesture to suggest that "only those with degrees or MAs can be successful" in these areas, but it's more indicative of the fact that it's difficult to get into something like this that demands a lot of time, creative energy, and commitment if you don't already have some training in filmmaking, in writing, in acting, in reading, in critical thinking and analysis, etc. Even the Super Best Friends YouTube channel, which just seems like a group of friends having fun goofing on both great and horrifically crappy games and movies, is still run by guys who studied editing, art, game design, and other subject areas pretty deeply before they hit it big, and it often shows in their output being strong on a technical level. I also enjoy the PopArena YouTube channel, and it shows in Greg's work that he's pretty well studied not only in 90s TV/film/literary pop culture, but in cultural interpretation and analysis. Basically, that level of study also implies a level of passion, and if you're going to go all-out and try to make a go of being somebody who makes a living in that realm, passion is the coin of the realm, as it drives and solidifies the will to work, to hustle, to keep up on things, etc. It's the type of thing that allows somebody to get enjoyment out of producing something even if there's not a ton of views for your videos or if you're only making a small amount on your Patreon. The aforementioned PopArena channel rarely hits 10,000 views for a video, but the output remains strong and Greg, the guy behind it, seems pretty content with where he's at, getting to produce content he clearly cares about. Spoony before filming videos did get published work as a freelancer in the Knights of the Dinner Table Magazine. He also states that he appeared as part of a traveling dinner theater and several short movies before hand... so he had some passion for acting. Yes, but he also got fired from that Knights Of The Dinner Table job fairly quickly. On a semi-related note, Spoony cars about his fans... (Language warning)
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Post by A Platypus Rave is Correct on Apr 6, 2018 20:31:43 GMT -5
Spoony before filming videos did get published work as a freelancer in the Knights of the Dinner Table Magazine. He also states that he appeared as part of a traveling dinner theater and several short movies before hand... so he had some passion for acting. Yes, but he also got fired from that Knights Of The Dinner Table job fairly quickly. seems like he was in it for like 2 years from all account that's not particularly quickly for a freelance job.
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