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Post by Cyno on Jul 31, 2020 15:27:20 GMT -5
My take on the Batman killing thing - Snyder, the stunt guy, the Snyder cult, they're all idiots. Batman's refusal to kill isn't a goody two-shoes thing. It's Bruce Wayne knowing that he's already so goddamn mental that if he starts killing, he's a bona fide psycho. Exactly. We've seen this explored in the Arrowverse a couple of times already.
In Crisis On Infinite Earths, Earth-99's Batman started killing and couldn't stop, including eventually killing that world's Superman and keeping a grisly hall of trophies of the bad guys he killed in Wayne Manor. And he was almost about to kill Supergirl, too, before Kate stopped him.
And in the Batwoman TV show, the reason Earth-Prime Batman isn't around is {Spoiler}he killed the Arrowverse's Earth-Prime Joker. Because of that, he went into self-imposed exile. . It would be a really interesting storyline to explore and how it relates to Kate and her own brushes with killing if they weren't throwing everything away interesting from Season 1 in order to soft-reboot the series with a brand new main character.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Jul 31, 2020 16:43:46 GMT -5
In execution (bad pun) it wasn't unlike the Zod neck snap in the way the killing played out. Difference was, Mark purposely did that to examine the aftermath of the hero killing and what happened to the hero's POV as well as others. Snyder gave us the "NOOO!" and an opportunity for that story but then no follow through. By the time he got to BvS he was fine. adn again the entire idea was he was trying to setup the story to be like... wooooah this guy was so powerful Superman had no choice but ot kill him! which... in narrative makes no sense since this is the first time Superman appeared... so in reality the world wouldn't be thinking that... it'd be OH SHIT THIS SUPER POWERED GOD BEING f***ING MURDERS PEOPLE, AND HAS NO VALUE FOR HUMAN LIFE AS HE DESTROYED HALF THE CITY TO PROVE HIS POINT! Meta-textually yeah you can see that point... but you can also see that Superman had like seventeen different options at that point to not kill him and still subdue him. and is was clear they weren't going for that first part because in the middle of the blowing up the city the character that was clearly a stand in for Jimmy (to the point people were just flat out calling her Jenny Olsen) ... stared at the sky and said "He's saving us!"
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Post by mcmahonfan85 on Jul 31, 2020 16:44:17 GMT -5
My take on the Batman killing thing - Snyder, the stunt guy, the Snyder cult, they're all idiots. Batman's refusal to kill isn't a goody two-shoes thing. It's Bruce Wayne knowing that he's already so goddamn mental that if he starts killing, he's a bona fide psycho. i'd take the stunt guy off the idiots list (at least for now), as what they wrote is not what he said (but you can just chalk that up their super duper high journalistic standards). here's the ScreenRant interview where he talked about Batman killing [29:00 mark]... screenrant.com/batman-v-superman-knightmare-fight-one-shot/...and quite frankly they need to take the microphone away from Snyder and just have the stunt guy explain the movie. because whether or not you agree with the decision to have Batman kill people [note: he did not say he agreed with Batman killing, just how he rationalized it], "He's lost who he is and lost his ideals, and needs someone like Superman to come along and snap him back to who he set out to be when he started to fight crime" is a hell of a lot better explanation than "You're living in a f***ing dream world if you think he wouldn't kill, bro" (because a story about an alien who can fly and shoot lasers from his eyes teaming up with a 5000 year old demigoddess to fight an undead monster needs to be grounded in reality)
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Post by thechase on Aug 4, 2020 8:51:32 GMT -5
Spoilers for today's issue of Batman#96 (relevant) {Spoiler}DC are retconning The Mark of Zorro has having had an alternative "Gotham Cut" that only Bruce and his parents saw
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Aug 4, 2020 9:39:49 GMT -5
Man, Maggie Fish really skewered his whole filmography in that vid. Great stuff.
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Post by BlackoutCreature on Aug 4, 2020 10:30:19 GMT -5
Spoilers for today's issue of Batman#96 (relevant) {Spoiler}{Spoiler}DC are retconning The Mark of Zorro has having had an alternative "Gotham Cut" that only Bruce and his parents saw I'm probably missing something important here. I'm gonna have to ask "why?" and also ask you to connect the dots on how this is relevant to the Snyder Cut or Snyder's DC movies in general?
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Post by thechase on Aug 4, 2020 10:35:50 GMT -5
Spoilers for today's issue of Batman#96 (relevant) {Spoiler}{Spoiler}{Spoiler}{Spoiler}DC are retconning The Mark of Zorro has having had an alternative "Gotham Cut" that only Bruce and his parents saw I'm probably missing something important here. I'm gonna have to ask "why?" and also ask you to connect the dots on how this is relevant to the Snyder Cut or Snyder's DC movies in general? Just the general interest people have in alternative movie cuts, and DC using it to advance a story (it's part of a Joker scheme) Maybe I should have put this in the Schumacher cut thread
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Aug 4, 2020 19:38:02 GMT -5
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Aug 4, 2020 19:42:24 GMT -5
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Post by Zaq "That Guy" Buzzkill on Aug 4, 2020 20:56:05 GMT -5
Guys, we have to keep Ryan Reynolds safe at all costs.
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Aug 4, 2020 21:21:05 GMT -5
Guys, we have to keep Ryan Reynolds safe at all costs. I'm looking forward to all the Snyderbots trying to claim that Zack always intended to have Ryan Reynolds involved, and produce some random detail in the background of a scene from another movie as proof.
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Post by Savage Gambino on Aug 5, 2020 11:19:54 GMT -5
Maggie Mae's take in that second video hit a chord with me; I haven't watched a ton of Snyder's output besides his DC movies (also once saw 300 on one of those little mini-TVs on a plane, but don't remember a ton about it), but man-oh-man are there a lot of creepy philosophical threads running through his oeuvre. Like, I'm sitting there yesterday watching her second official video (with "we're already ded" in the thumbnail) and she shows the clip from the '04 Dawn of the Dead where the TV preacher starts spouting off about how sin has brought about the zombie apocalypse, and my instant reaction was "Oh, obviously that's a scene meant to show how some people are using a crisis to push a horrible, hate-driven agenda, and anyone who's influenced by this guy is going to end up being a bad guy or at least morally compromised in some way, right?" Again, I've never seen more than a few minutes of the Dawn remake, so I figured that had to be it. But then she brings out the reveal: nope, there's nothing in the text of the movie that contradicts anything the preacher said. As far as we can tell, he's offering the clearest explanation for what's happening, especially contrasted with the regular newscasts, which are played up as uninformed noise and unhelpful chatter from talking heads. Apparently people having sex and being gay is the text's clearest explanation for why this is happening, and it's never particularly challenged by any of the characters or events in the plot. The fact the preacher is played by the star of the original DotD, and that the remake seems to go out of its way to subvert what was already a very subversive original movie and strip away its more radical messaging into something that completely contradicts its original intent, just feels like some really shitty icing on that cake.Then there's the creepy, fascistic undertones of his whole "the only thing we can control in life is how we die, so die gloriously" theme, combined with "but only the truly BADASS (read: non-empathetic, detached, emotionally unavailable jerks) get to die nobly; kindness is only for the weak, and the weak die as random statistics or in useless, unimpressive ways" storytelling, and THAT combined with "die gloriously by taking out THE OTHER"...you know, them, the people that aren't us, whomever they and we might be in a particular movie. Snyder always bills himself as an objectivist/Ayn Rand follower, but man, it's way too short a hop, skip, and jump to go from "radical self-interest" to embracing things that Umberto Eco warned about decades ago, and his work, when taken as a whole, shows it. To expand on that "shitty icing on the cake", there is a really troubling pattern of Snyder taking source material that he doesn't agree with politically and twisting it into his own image, eventually to it's detriment in the case of his version of Superman. The anti-consumerism message in the original Dawn of the Dead becomes a fear of the other, the repulsive Rorschach of the Watchmen comics becomes it's central hero in the film, and Superman, who is supposed to represent the best of mankind, becomes someone who can't even stand to be around humans that aren't his parents or his lover. Now that I think about it, the one adaptation he does do straight is 300, and honestly, I think that speaks for itself.
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Post by Jedi-El of Tomorrow on Aug 5, 2020 11:36:41 GMT -5
Maggie Mae's take in that second video hit a chord with me; I haven't watched a ton of Snyder's output besides his DC movies (also once saw 300 on one of those little mini-TVs on a plane, but don't remember a ton about it), but man-oh-man are there a lot of creepy philosophical threads running through his oeuvre. Like, I'm sitting there yesterday watching her second official video (with "we're already ded" in the thumbnail) and she shows the clip from the '04 Dawn of the Dead where the TV preacher starts spouting off about how sin has brought about the zombie apocalypse, and my instant reaction was "Oh, obviously that's a scene meant to show how some people are using a crisis to push a horrible, hate-driven agenda, and anyone who's influenced by this guy is going to end up being a bad guy or at least morally compromised in some way, right?" Again, I've never seen more than a few minutes of the Dawn remake, so I figured that had to be it. But then she brings out the reveal: nope, there's nothing in the text of the movie that contradicts anything the preacher said. As far as we can tell, he's offering the clearest explanation for what's happening, especially contrasted with the regular newscasts, which are played up as uninformed noise and unhelpful chatter from talking heads. Apparently people having sex and being gay is the text's clearest explanation for why this is happening, and it's never particularly challenged by any of the characters or events in the plot. The fact the preacher is played by the star of the original DotD, and that the remake seems to go out of its way to subvert what was already a very subversive original movie and strip away its more radical messaging into something that completely contradicts its original intent, just feels like some really shitty icing on that cake.Then there's the creepy, fascistic undertones of his whole "the only thing we can control in life is how we die, so die gloriously" theme, combined with "but only the truly BADASS (read: non-empathetic, detached, emotionally unavailable jerks) get to die nobly; kindness is only for the weak, and the weak die as random statistics or in useless, unimpressive ways" storytelling, and THAT combined with "die gloriously by taking out THE OTHER"...you know, them, the people that aren't us, whomever they and we might be in a particular movie. Snyder always bills himself as an objectivist/Ayn Rand follower, but man, it's way too short a hop, skip, and jump to go from "radical self-interest" to embracing things that Umberto Eco warned about decades ago, and his work, when taken as a whole, shows it. To expand on that "shitty icing on the cake", there is a really troubling pattern of Snyder taking source material that he doesn't agree with politically and twisting it into his own image, eventually to it's detriment in the case of his version of Superman. The anti-consumerism message in the original Dawn of the Dead becomes a fear of the other, the repulsive Rorschach of the Watchmen comics becomes it's central hero in the film, and Superman, who is supposed to represent the best of mankind, becomes someone who can't even stand to be around humans that aren't his parents or his lover. Now that I think about it, the one adaptation he does do straight is 300, and honestly, I think that speaks for itself. Dawn of the Dead was easily his best movie. I'll still gladly watch it to this day. Of course you've gotta give credit to James Gunn's script (we got actual character development from CJ), a talented cast, and the fact that since it was Snyder's debut he probably had a lot of people overseeing what he does.
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Aug 7, 2020 16:11:10 GMT -5
Bad day for Snyder fans. Bob Greenblatt, head of HBO Max and the man most responsible for getting Snyder the money to finish his cut, has been fired.
Still, at least they can look forward to Affleck coming back...
Oh.
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Post by Savage Gambino on Aug 7, 2020 16:57:58 GMT -5
Still, at least they can look forward to Affleck coming back... Oh. Congrats to Ben for getting back in the saddle. I know Live By Night was a big disappointment for him. I do wonder if Chinatown is recommended viewing for this. Eh, maybe Netflix will be streaming it by the time this film comes out.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Aug 7, 2020 17:36:58 GMT -5
Bad day for Snyder fans. Bob Greenblatt, head of HBO Max and the man most responsible for getting Snyder the money to finish his cut, has been fired. Still, at least they can look forward to Affleck coming back... Oh. New guy: Snyder, we are cutting the budget in half so figure it out. You said you had a finished movie so chop to it my man
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Post by thechase on Aug 8, 2020 15:12:54 GMT -5
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Aug 8, 2020 15:13:12 GMT -5
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Post by xCompackx on Aug 8, 2020 15:50:38 GMT -5
There's PS1-era villains who genuinely look better than that Steppenwolf.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2020 16:04:42 GMT -5
There are tons of, "Shut up, Green Lantern is a great movie!" responses to that and I have no earthly idea how someone could hold that opinion.
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