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Post by 1 Free Moon-Down with Burger on Apr 9, 2018 10:46:47 GMT -5
Nakamura man.
A f***ing bruised up and torn to shit Tanahashi is putting on better matches.
I love the guy but Shinsuke’s body of work after the Zayn match had been lame as shit. The Miz has had more memorable matches in the past two years than Nakamura has.
Its a damn shame and there has to be a point where we start blaming the worker. Jinder had a better match with AJ in less time. If you need 45 minutes minimum for your match to be good, you aren’t that good. He was given extended main event time in NXT and his title reign match quality never got past “Pretty alright I guess”.
Maybe it’ll change but I’m about ready to write off Nakamura as old,busted and past it. Go back to New Japan and team with Nagata and Nakanishi.
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BlahBlah
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Post by BlahBlah on Apr 9, 2018 10:51:06 GMT -5
Love both dudes but come on, the match was trash. Whoever said Nakamura has been a bust in WWE is absolutely right. Hopefully this heel turn helps because he desperately needs it.
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Post by doinkmark on Apr 9, 2018 10:59:39 GMT -5
You know its a surreal night when you can reasonably say Miz was in a better match than Nakamura and Styles. Last night I thought to myself "Wow! AJ and Nakamura were given more match time than Cena and Undertaker at WrestleMania." I know there are likely legit reasons for that, but it's still something no one would've guessed a few years ago. Surreal is an understatement.
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thecrusherwi
El Dandy
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Post by thecrusherwi on Apr 9, 2018 11:07:13 GMT -5
I really don't remember much of anything from this match. It was SIX HOURS into the total broadcast. I just didn't care enough at that point. I was hoping AJ would win and he did. When it ended, I was glad it was over.
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Post by YAKMAN is ICHIBAN on Apr 9, 2018 11:18:07 GMT -5
I really don't remember much of anything from this match. It was SIX HOURS into the total broadcast. I just didn't care enough at that point. I was hoping AJ would win and he did. When it ended, I was glad it was over. I was really at "half-watching while browsing Reddit on my phone" stage at that point. It might have benefited from being earlier in the show, at least as far as crowd interest goes.
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Push R Truth
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Post by Push R Truth on Apr 9, 2018 11:21:09 GMT -5
This was the only match last night where I can't recall a damn thing outside of Naka's entrance and the testicular trauma after it. Definition of forgettable.
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Post by cabbageboy on Apr 9, 2018 11:27:19 GMT -5
I figured this match would kind of disappoint since you never want to call your shot like that. It's like Perfect/HBK at SS 93, where they hyped it like a mega classic in the making and they had an eh match with a countout finish. That said, I am interested in this feud going forward now that it is an actual feud with a heel/face dynamic. I think that's why fans were a little baffled by it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2018 11:28:27 GMT -5
Meltzer said what I was saying today and that's the fact that Shinsuke in NXT was better but he maybe can't go like he used to in New Japan and that's fine for me. I mean I figured as much, the guy's almost made it to the Forbes list, we know why he's in the WWE.
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Post by corndog on Apr 9, 2018 11:29:37 GMT -5
Nakamura man. A f***ing bruised up and torn to shit Tanahashi is putting on better matches. I love the guy but Shinsuke’s body of work after the Zayn match had been lame as shit. The Miz has had more memorable matches in the past two years than Nakamura has. Its a damn shame and there has to be a point where we start blaming the worker. Jinder had a better match with AJ in less time. If you need 45 minutes minimum for your match to be good, you aren’t that good. He was given extended main event time in NXT and his title reign match quality never got past “Pretty alright I guess”. Maybe it’ll change but I’m about ready to write off Nakamura as old,busted and past it. Go back to New Japan and team with Nagata and Nakanishi. A 49 year old Minoru Suzuki is having much better matches than Nakamura. A 49 year old Yuji Nagata was IMO the best performer of the G1. Tanahashi is putting on better matches as well, but they have been giving him time off. I don't think WWE's schedule is helping Nakamura, as he probably works 250 matches a year there, which is way beyond what New Japan does. Once his contract expires, he probably goes back to New Japan, puts Naito over and starts hanging out with the dads.
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BRV
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
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Post by BRV on Apr 9, 2018 11:45:50 GMT -5
I agree with the people who are saying that the match ended right as it felt like it was starting to get going, but should a match really need 20 minutes to set the pace? If a match isn't grabbing my attention in the first 20 minutes, I don't care how exciting you make the next 10.
Also, this is WWE's fault for hyping this match up as one of the greatest matches in wrestling history before either of them stepped between the ropes. If you sell a match that hard, it's borderline impossible to deliver on it. I think back to Chris Jericho vs. CM Punk at WrestleMania XXVIII in a similar way - it was sold as the "Steamboat vs. Savage" to John Cena and The Rock's "Andre vs. Hogan," so on that alone it already had expectations that were too high. And while the match was perfectly fine, nobody is bouncing their grandkids on their knee regaling them with stories of Punk vs. Jericho.
If they'd simply have sold this as a match between two all-time competitors meeting in a WWE ring for the first time ever, maybe it meets expectations. But when they're selling it as "The Dream Match" and we have JBL caterwauling during Kickoff about how it's going to "steal the show," there was almost no way it was going to live up to the hype. And that's how a perfectly decent three-star match ends up feeling like a colossal dud.
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Post by The Summer of Muskrat XVII on Apr 9, 2018 12:20:05 GMT -5
Meltzer said what I was saying today and that's the fact that Shinsuke in NXT was better but he maybe can't go like he used to in New Japan and that's fine for me. I mean I figured as much, the guy's almost made it to the Forbes list, we know why he's in the WWE. I do think there is some truth to that, that Shinsuke came to WWE because he knew he could have a good run there without having to perform at a NJPW main event level. He didn't wanna slide into the New Japan Dad's sort of position. And count me with the ones who felt this seemed like it should've gone 5-8 minutes longer. It felt like they went home, right when they should've been firing up. I was absolutely stunned when AJ pinned him there, because the Clash really hasn't been the most protected move in WWE like it was in New Japan (seriously, did anyone kick out of that during AJ's run there?)
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Post by HMARK Center on Apr 9, 2018 12:46:59 GMT -5
I made mention of this in another thread, but I kind of feel like WWE's format doesn't much allow for "dream matches" to work out terribly well most of the time. It's not that the talent isn't there, but WWE just does not place the type of premium on in-ring story telling and psychology that you can see elsewhere (not always done well elsewhere, mind you, but at least attempted). It turns a lot of these clashes into formulaic matches, either the classic "babyface starts hot, heel controls, babyface comeback" one or something like "trade big spots, rest between them for crowd reactions, kick out of finishers" as their main event style. It's very limiting. It seemed AJ and Nak wanted to tell the "I know you better now than the first time we met" story, but it didn't get to click (and Dunn is just not good at filming worked strikes and making them look impactful). I don't agree with the idea that a match that "needs another five minutes" is somehow lacking in structure, some matches just need that burst to really put the punctuation mark on what the performers were going for, but this one felt like they were told there was a time limit and they really had to stick to it...guess they needed more time for Braun to wander through the audience and toss floats. Meltzer said what I was saying today and that's the fact that Shinsuke in NXT was better but he maybe can't go like he used to in New Japan and that's fine for me. I mean I figured as much, the guy's almost made it to the Forbes list, we know why he's in the WWE. I do think there is some truth to that, that Shinsuke came to WWE because he knew he could have a good run there without having to perform at a NJPW main event level. He didn't wanna slide into the New Japan Dad's sort of position. And count me with the ones who felt this seemed like it should've gone 5-8 minutes longer. It felt like they went home, right when they should've been firing up. I was absolutely stunned when AJ pinned him there, because the Clash really hasn't been the most protected move in WWE like it was in New Japan (seriously, did anyone kick out of that during AJ's run there?) Once Yoshi Tatsu got injured on it, the Clash was booked as insta-death, as I recall.
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trollrogue
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Post by trollrogue on Apr 9, 2018 12:47:05 GMT -5
This was a 20 minute preview of what was building towards a 60-minute match. So many times people have said, "just hang on guys, they're going to pick things up any moment now! It's going to get really god!" Except, it didn't. I'm running out of excuses when it comes to Nakamura coming in as strong as he did against Sami Zayn in his debuting match...he's just not delivered at all on the main roster, and I don't know if it's the language barrier, injuries, motivations, or a combination of all three. A heel turn is welcome for sure, but it may be too little too late for many people since we are now on Day 368 of his Main Roster run...and nothing of note aside from his Royal Rumble win has happened. The feud is continuing after tonight. That's the biggest issue I take with this whole thing, to be honest. WrestleMania is supposed to be the 'season finale' of the WWE. Feuds, storylines, all of that is supposed to have a definitive mark of finality so that the next chapters can be started the following two nights along with the combination of shuffling of talent. Much like how Lesnar/Roman didn't end the 'reign of terror,' this just stretches the end for an even longer period. Dude with the modern era WWE its been for awhile now that the MNR after Mania always becomes the biggest show of the year. For like years now, WWE treats their weekly episodic show as a much bigger deal than Mania on This Day specifically due to rowdy crowd response and the ability for them to debut NXT Superstars outta nowhere. Mania as a whole has become a Kickoff show of sorts for the new season on WWE.
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Fauxnaki
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Post by Fauxnaki on Apr 9, 2018 14:04:48 GMT -5
It was kinda boring and had no heat maybe the rematch will be better
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Fade
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Post by Fade on Apr 9, 2018 14:15:35 GMT -5
I really don't remember much of anything from this match. It was SIX HOURS into the total broadcast. I just didn't care enough at that point. I was hoping AJ would win and he did. When it ended, I was glad it was over. I was really at "half-watching while browsing Reddit on my phone" stage at that point. It might have benefited from being earlier in the show, at least as far as crowd interest goes. I mean the crowd was HYPED for it at the beginning but died out as the two took their time. Not wrong on them. Probably the right call, especially if a rematch/series occur with Nak now playing heel.
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Post by Rudy Gobert Fadeaway on Apr 9, 2018 14:20:37 GMT -5
That match was traaaash. Like, I'm sorry, but that was awful. They did nothing for 20 minutes and then it ended. Like playing Fortnite and building a neverending ramp up to the sky until someone shoots the very first one and it all collapses down and you die. Also the crowd was so dead for most of it that it felt like The Bludgeon Brothers came back out to do a Tanahashi air guitar concert with their hammers.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2018 14:21:11 GMT -5
They should have had this match in about January and had the barn burner at Mania, because you know they’re going to tear the house down eventually.
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Post by 1 Free Moon-Down with Burger on Apr 9, 2018 14:21:37 GMT -5
I can say from being in the building, the crowd was excited about the match. They wanted to go nuts and enjoy it.
The match itself killed the crowd. It wasn’t the show going too long. It wasn’t any other factor. The match was mediocre and lost the crowd.
“Oh but you see they held back because now the real match series starts now that Nakamura is a heel.” f*** that shit. f*** that excuse. Its Wrestlemania. You don’t hold back and do set up bullshit at Wrestlemania with people spending as much money as they do for that goddamned show.
Its like when Age of Ultron was just set up for another movie. f*** you. Don’t use the thing everything builds to as an ad for another thing.
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Post by MrElijah on Apr 9, 2018 14:21:43 GMT -5
You know what this reminds of? The Hype of HBK vs. Perfect from SummerSlam '93.
They hyped it as the Greatest IC Title match ever before they even got in the ring.
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The Foreigner™: OffSZN
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Post by The Foreigner™: OffSZN on Apr 9, 2018 14:33:00 GMT -5
I was absolutely stunned when AJ pinned him there, because the Clash really hasn't been the most protected move in WWE like it was in New Japan (seriously, did anyone kick out of that during AJ's run there?) Nakamura did at Wrestle Kingdom 10, but it was slightly modified as Styles used it to escape a triangle choke.
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