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Post by The Barber on Apr 11, 2018 21:04:22 GMT -5
I do not buy the 'TNA salted the earth for wrestling on TV.' Wrestling does not attract lucrative advertisers, that is and will always be the reason most stations want nothing to do with the sport, it was a problem before TNA and remains a huge problem now. TNA's relationship with Spike was so acrimonious toward the end, they got months worth of contract extensions that gave them enough time to find a new home. As for fans being justified wanting TNA closed. No, at this point everyone responsible for the vast majority of TNA's issues are gone from positions of power, Dixie, Jarrett (it amazes me how quickly all his sins have been wiped away since he made nice with the WWE), Russo, Hogan, Bischoff, even the six sided ring is gone. Wanting the company to die now is just something people want out of spite, but that's the wrestling fanbase for you. Wrestling is not the in thing right now. It’s not very popular and due to all the free content every week on television it’s oversaturated right now. If wrestling was hot again and there was a promotion that could deliver decent content weekly that could do ratings then networks would be fighting for it. I don’t see that happening any time soon. As for Spike, they have rebranded to become the Paramount Network. They want to be considered to be the same kind of network as an AMC now, so I think wrestling is off their radar altogether, whether wrestling would be popular again or not. People that are so outspoken about wanting TNA to close feels like hate speech to me. I was attending live independent shows during the early years of TNA. If TNA talent appeared on those shows the chants of “F**k TNA” would be the loudest chants of the night. This wasn’t one show. This happened at dozens of shows I attended. It became commonplace. Since then TNA has undergone a lot of changes. Too many to keep up with honestly. They’ve had some horrible management and made some very irresponsible decisions. I was all in favor of having the people responsible being removed from their positions of power. From what I understand they have been since. I can certainly understand the frustration that comes with hearing about the past mistakes and incompetence of TNA but I’m not in favor of a bunch of people being out of a job. A new company isn’t going to suddenly appear to employ those out of work. I’ve seen people use some sort of fantasy land logic to suggest TNA closing would make room for something else. That’s just not going to happen. People losing their jobs is something I will never cheer for. Job security and an income are very important in life. It’s why I never knocked Shane Douglas, Jesse Neal, Justin Credible or anyone else when they sought other avenues for an income other than wrestling. Sometimes I wonder about the individuals who call for such things. I see people on the internet say how a wrestler should refuse to do something that they, as a “fan”, do not aprove of. I wonder if those people realize how a boss / employee relationship works or if those people are or have ever been employed at all. Those people who do give the negative stigmas of wrestling fans some merit.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Apr 11, 2018 21:12:45 GMT -5
'Wanting it to die' implies there's something there to really salvage. Its relevance died years ago. It's been a shambling zombie of a company for the longest time.
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Crappler El 0 M
Dalek
Never Forgets an Octagon
I'm a good R-Truth.
Posts: 58,479
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Post by Crappler El 0 M on Apr 11, 2018 21:55:10 GMT -5
At this point, it's harder to hold their past against them. It's a new regime. The business itself is better off having a strong Impact. If Impact is able to grow and rebound, that's better for wrestling fans and wrestlers.
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Post by Starshine on Apr 11, 2018 22:57:04 GMT -5
So far we have seen, Okada's career almost dying. I'll never understand this criticism. Especially since Okada was basically nothing before they put the belt on him post his TNA run. People make it sound like they purposefully ignored some bonefied star, yet New Japan was treating him almost the same way. Even the night he first challenged Tanahashi, the New Japan fans didn't take him seriously. He's also not the first guy to deal with a dumb gimmick. It's just such a weird thing to hang the company up on.
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The Ichi
Patti Mayonnaise
AGGRESSIVE Executive Janitor of the Third Floor Manager's Bathroom
Posts: 37,642
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Post by The Ichi on Apr 12, 2018 1:05:02 GMT -5
I'm pretty indifferent about what happens to them now, but are people still seriously falling for the "they'll turn things around this time!" thing AGAIN?
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Apr 12, 2018 1:44:32 GMT -5
So far we have seen, Okada's career almost dying. I'll never understand this criticism. Especially since Okada was basically nothing before they put the belt on him post his TNA run. People make it sound like they purposefully ignored some bonefied star, yet New Japan was treating him almost the same way. Even the night he first challenged Tanahashi, the New Japan fans didn't take him seriously. He's also not the first guy to deal with a dumb gimmick. It's just such a weird thing to hang the company up on. Did you know that this was one of the main reasons why New Japan ended their relationship with tna? That they told tna to take care of Okada and teach him? Not to push him as champion just to take care of him, and instead they humiliated him when Russo gave him that disastrous gimmick. It's such a stain that recently Scott D'Amore attended a New Japan show and personally apologized to Okada and management.
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Post by Starshine on Apr 12, 2018 3:20:01 GMT -5
I'll never understand this criticism. Especially since Okada was basically nothing before they put the belt on him post his TNA run. People make it sound like they purposefully ignored some bonefied star, yet New Japan was treating him almost the same way. Even the night he first challenged Tanahashi, the New Japan fans didn't take him seriously. He's also not the first guy to deal with a dumb gimmick. It's just such a weird thing to hang the company up on. Did you know that this was one of the main reasons why New Japan ended their relationship with tna? That they told tna to take care of Okada and teach him? Not to push him as champion just to take care of him, and instead they humiliated him when Russo gave him that disastrous gimmick. It's such a stain that recently Scott D'Amore attended a New Japan show and personally apologized to Okada and management. I thought the problem was they weren't using him (also see ROH and Watanabe). But again I don't see how any this would have seriously damaged Okada back home which was your original point. He didn't have enough stock to hurt to begin with. Plus considering Okada has said that excursion gave him the inspiration for the Rainmaker gimmick, it cannot be considered a total failure by any stretch.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Apr 12, 2018 4:38:59 GMT -5
Did you know that this was one of the main reasons why New Japan ended their relationship with tna? That they told tna to take care of Okada and teach him? Not to push him as champion just to take care of him, and instead they humiliated him when Russo gave him that disastrous gimmick. It's such a stain that recently Scott D'Amore attended a New Japan show and personally apologized to Okada and management. I thought the problem was they weren't using him (also see ROH and Watanabe). But again I don't see how any this would have seriously damaged Okada back home which was your original point. He didn't have enough stock to hurt to begin with. Plus considering Okada has said that excursion gave him the inspiration for the Rainmaker gimmick, it cannot be considered a total failure by any stretch. They used him but not how NJPW had in mind, he became Samoa Joe's flunkie and Pope's jobber bitch. Bruce Prichard said that Russo gave him the Okato gimmick just because he was Asian and that Russo never even watched him wrestle. Okada was just a stereotype in tna. It damaged Okada, he had to start over again after the whole Okato disaster. He was sent to learn not to be turned into a jobber. TNA also f***ed Sanada and almost ruined his career, he was supposed to be the ace of Wrestle 1 but tna f***ed him over and he had to leave Wrestle 1, luckily he found a home in New Japan. T
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Post by Starshine on Apr 12, 2018 4:55:05 GMT -5
I thought the problem was they weren't using him (also see ROH and Watanabe). But again I don't see how any this would have seriously damaged Okada back home which was your original point. He didn't have enough stock to hurt to begin with. Plus considering Okada has said that excursion gave him the inspiration for the Rainmaker gimmick, it cannot be considered a total failure by any stretch. They used him but not how NJPW had in mind, he became Samoa Joe's flunkie and Pope's jobber bitch. Bruce Prichard said that Russo gave him the Okato gimmick just because he was Asian and that Russo never even watched him wrestle. Okada was just a stereotype in tna. It damaged Okada, he had to start over again after the whole Okato disaster. He was sent to learn not to be turned into a jobber. TNA also f***ed Sanada and almost ruined his career, he was supposed to be the ace of Wrestle 1 but tna f***ed him over and he had to leave Wrestle 1, luckily he found a home in New Japan. T What do you mean by start over again? Okada went back and was immediately put into a title feud with Tanahashi on his first night back and then was IWGP champion a month later. He developed a new gimmick while away and was pushed the moment he was back in the company. How was his career at risk of being damaged in any sense of the word? Anyway Russo did that shit with other people. Remember pinata on a pole, or La Parka's English voice-over gimmick, or "choppy choppy pee-pee?" Finally Wrestle-1 f***ed Wrestle-1. That discussion doesn't need to go much further than that. Sanada jumping that sinking ship is what saved his career.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Apr 12, 2018 6:34:19 GMT -5
They used him but not how NJPW had in mind, he became Samoa Joe's flunkie and Pope's jobber bitch. Bruce Prichard said that Russo gave him the Okato gimmick just because he was Asian and that Russo never even watched him wrestle. Okada was just a stereotype in tna. It damaged Okada, he had to start over again after the whole Okato disaster. He was sent to learn not to be turned into a jobber. TNA also f***ed Sanada and almost ruined his career, he was supposed to be the ace of Wrestle 1 but tna f***ed him over and he had to leave Wrestle 1, luckily he found a home in New Japan. T What do you mean by start over again? Okada went back and was immediately put into a title feud with Tanahashi on his first night back and then was IWGP champion a month later. He developed a new gimmick while away and was pushed the moment he was back in the company. How was his career at risk of being damaged in any sense of the word? Anyway Russo did that shit with other people. Remember pinata on a pole, or La Parka's English voice-over gimmick, or "choppy choppy pee-pee?" Finally Wrestle-1 f***ed Wrestle-1. That discussion doesn't need to go much further than that. Sanada jumping that sinking ship is what saved his career. You got the timeline wrong. Okada didn't become Rainmaker and challenged Tanahashi right after he left tna, Okada lingered for a year before creating Rainmaker. Regarding wrestle 1, are you forgetting that tna hid Russo from them so the relationship wouldn't die? Sanada also had a rough time when he left that company, he didn't joined njpw until years later. Them turning him into Fake Muta absolutely hurt him. Both Sanada and Okada had to start over after leaving that shithole of a place.
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Apr 12, 2018 6:56:27 GMT -5
Spike (or whatever it is called now) and Destination America (and all 19 Discovery owned networks) have point blank told people they want nothing to do with wrestling after TNA was canceled because of management incompetence. WGN blamed WWE rightly. CW you might be able to make a case for but they were also going from a general audience demo to focusing on 18-34 females. SyFY didn't cancel WWE, NBC moved SDL up to USA with a rights fee boost. Unless you're talking ECW/NXT but even then it obviously didn't hurt anything. Have any of the parties come out and said this or is it just the usual game of wrestling news site/podcast host says something along those lines and people just accept it as true because it paints TNA in a negative light?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2018 8:57:56 GMT -5
Yeah I don't think it's anyone's place to say from where we sit whether TNA should live or die, it's easy to say from here than it is if you're in there working and you and your peers depend on it for rent. I do sort of miss the time when TNA was the bumbling clown of wrestling though, we might never get anything as funny in wrestling as Dixie getting caught still employing Vince Russo. The scrapes they got themselves in were amazing.
I'm very hopeful that Callis and D'Amore can get things back in order and somewhat stable.
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Post by CeilingFan on Apr 12, 2018 9:40:24 GMT -5
'Wanting it to die' implies there's something there to really salvage. Its relevance died years ago. It's been a shambling zombie of a company for the longest time. As the resident zombie here, I say that they became the undead when they ended up on POP TV.
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markymark
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 19,740
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Post by markymark on Apr 12, 2018 14:52:07 GMT -5
They were absoloutley justified before but now I think it is more grim interest now that they have sort of turned things around but still the sword of damaclease hangs and people and waiting for it to drop. And sadly it probably will sooner than later because this company can't do anything without making dumpster fire choices no matter who runs it. Yeah, Dixie is still there(minority owner/pretty much with no power in the company). I've said it in another thread, but I think a lot of reaction now are a default setting for TNA's long line of incompetence that was magnified when Hogan and crew came in and had been running for a long time after. Anthem's biggest blunders are the Hardy fiasco (which they admitted was wrong and even Matt Hardy praised them for how they learned from the situation) and some things Jarrett did in charge. With Don Callis and Scott D'Amore in charge they at least are finally self aware, but right now they are having to rebuild after years of the same company (albeit former owners) treating the fans with contempt Matthews said on twitch that it was Jarretts idea to have him feud with JB in 2017, even Callis indirectly said who was the damn idiot that thought having an announcers feud was going to bring buzz to the company. Absolutely justified when Dixie was running the show, but now? Not so much. If they can keep Pointy Haired Ed from doing any more stupid shit and actually turn things around, more power to them. Ed fired Patron after he no showed, if it was Dixie he wouldve forgive him and granted him the title. So far we have seen, Bounced Checks. Production people not being paid. Production people being intimidated by neo nazis into not getting paid. Jesse Sorensen being treated like shit. Roxy Lebeau being treated like shit. Daffney being treated like shit. Making the roster pay for the shit hall of fame dinner. Having a dirty ring that gave hepatitis to Nigel Mcguiness. DJ Z needing to start a f***ing go fund me to pay for his surgery. Terry Taylor giving pills to Konnan instead of paying for his f***ing surgery. Okada's career almost dying. Young Bucks not having enough money to pay for a f***ing two dollar sub at the airport. I could go on for hours. I don't feel bad for people being out of work because guess what? Their job in tna doesn't pay them on time or even pays them at all. Let this shithole crumble, let the fire burn, then let the water soak this whole rat infested place. f*** TNA. Most of the blame should go Dixie, worst promoter in the history of the sport. Yeah I don't think it's anyone's place to say from where we sit whether TNA should live or die, it's easy to say from here than it is if you're in there working and you and your peers depend on it for rent. I do sort of miss the time when TNA was the bumbling clown of wrestling though, we might never get anything as funny in wrestling as Dixie getting caught still employing Vince Russo. The scrapes they got themselves in were amazing. I'm very hopeful that Callis and D'Amore can get things back in order and somewhat stable. Callis shouldve been brought in early 2017, and that year wouldve been the rebuilding year, instead they get Jarrett and the product got worse.
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Crappler El 0 M
Dalek
Never Forgets an Octagon
I'm a good R-Truth.
Posts: 58,479
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Post by Crappler El 0 M on Apr 12, 2018 16:09:26 GMT -5
I say give them a chance.
It's new management. New ownership. They allow talent to use their names outside of Impact, even when they leave. Their deals with talent now allow the talent to work more places. They are doing interesting things on Twitch.
The business is better if Impact succeeds.
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Post by Zombie Mod on Apr 12, 2018 16:25:42 GMT -5
'Wanting it to die' implies there's something there to really salvage. Its relevance died years ago. It's been a shambling zombie of a company for the longest time. As the resident zombie here, I say that they became the undead when they ended up on POP TV. Psst they're just above us typing dead types, they're still twitching.
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markymark
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 19,740
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Post by markymark on Apr 12, 2018 17:14:14 GMT -5
I say give them a chance. It's new management. New ownership. They allow talent to use their names outside of Impact, even when they leave. Their deals with talent now allow the talent to work more places. They are doing interesting things on Twitch. The business is better if Impact succeeds. Pretty much. Its not like new management in 4 month is going to fix all of the stupidity Dixie,Russo, Bischoff, Hogan, Jarrett did in the last decade.
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Post by axebomber on Apr 14, 2018 10:55:47 GMT -5
It should die. It's been damaged beyond repair years ago. It's sad watching it. I'm not worried about people losing their jobs since there are a ton of Indies out there. Even in Ontario (since it's a Canadian Indy now) there is the much better Smash promotion. Most TNA workers probably have day jobs anyway.
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Aya Reiko
Team Rocket
Judgement Day is here.
Posts: 783
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Post by Aya Reiko on Apr 15, 2018 17:34:06 GMT -5
It used to be due to all the shady crap Ditzy & Co. tried to pull and the very crappy way the show had been booked.
These days, it's more like taking the dog behind the shed and putting it out of its misery. The booking hasn't improved that much either.
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Post by "Evil Brood" Jackson Vanik on Apr 15, 2018 18:19:01 GMT -5
I feel like the current ownership is doing the best they can with what they've been given and I actually like the direction its headed. I have my doubts that it can overcome the Dixie-driven hole they are in but I like the niche it has found in the industry as a place for people to get TV spotlight while also allowing people to work elsewhere. I don't want it to die right now at least. I want to see where they go with the current direction.
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