"Magic" Mark Hurr
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Here, have some chili dogs
Not related to Phantasmo
Posts: 16,044
|
Post by "Magic" Mark Hurr on Apr 30, 2018 11:06:30 GMT -5
HHH is the quintessential "Loses the battle, win the war" guy. There is no one that will top what he has done. If that is was the eventual end game, then "padding the resume" wasn't necessary. One off random HHH victories to prove he can still do it wasn't necessary. There were many guys of the years who needed the time to be guy in order to transition to the next.
Brock's reign kind of stunted Roman's mega push since Vince values Brock more even though he can't get Romans flowing mane out of his dreams.
Like said, Brock not being around is cool to a certain extent because we don't need the champ on tv every week since we do have another champ in AJ (the true champion) on Smackdown.
|
|
|
Post by Mid-Carder on Apr 30, 2018 11:11:33 GMT -5
Triple H was put into the position because his wife and father-in-law wanted him there, he was all over TV all the time, ruining several careers while doing it. Brock is still over with huge appeal and has had big success outside wrestling, appears infrequently enough to still have an aura about him and feel like a special attraction.
Every wrestling fan I've ever known in real life was driven away during the Reign of Terror. A few are casuals now but nothing like before that. This is nothing close to that.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2018 11:47:08 GMT -5
We gotta address something else too.
I've seen a lot of posts about Triple H "ruining potential stars" but I have to ask who do yall have that he ruined? Do you know how many potential stars he took out? I've just gone through each feud Trips had during the Reign of Terror starting in 2002 through 2005 and here's what we have.
- RVD (a star, lost to HHH due to Flair and Trip's sledgehammer, kept elevating after the match) - Kane (a star, lost to HHH due to Flair and Trip's sledgehammer, kept elevating after the match, ended up winning the feud in a non-title casket match a week later) - HBK (a star, beat HHH for the title, lost the title to HHH months later due to Flair's help) - RVD and Kane (stars, beat Flair and Trips in a tag title feud) - Steiner (lost to HHH due to his boys and the sledgehammer) - Booker T (inexcusable, a star that lost due to Flair) - Nash (DQ'd but Nash laid HHH out afterwards, HIAC Nash lost) - Goldberg (Goldberg won repeatedly, lost the Armageddon match due to Evolution) - HBK (draw) - Benoit (Benoit won) - HBK (HHH won) - Benoit (Benoit won again) - Eugene (weird match but HHH won) - Orton (lost due to Evolution inteference) - HBK (lost due to Edge interference) - Batista (beat Trips and ended the reign)
Those are the only feuds the guy had during that time. Booker T is the only guy who Triple H feuded with during that time who took a major hit. Well, Orton did as well but that was more along of what he was doing in real life so he's excused. All the others didn't need it, continued to elevate or ended up beating Triple H. You cannot excuse Booker.
As for Lesnar, let's go through each feud he's had since he's beaten Taker.
- Cena (beat Cena) - Cena and Rollins (beat them) - Roman Reigns (and Rollins) (yep) - Rollins (Rollins via DQ) - Kofi (BITE, needed that win) - Taker (Lesnar ended the feud) - Ambrose and Reigns (lost the match when Reigns beat Ambrose) - Ambrose (you know the result) - Orton (yepppppppppp, Orton was a bitch) - Goldberg (Bill pulled through)
Now we get the Universal Champion Saga
- Joe (Joe needed that win) - Strowman (needed that win) - Styles (Styles lost but he looked great) - Strowman and Kane (ugh) - Reigns (yepppppppppppppppppppppppppppppp)
When I look at this I see Ambrose, Kofi, Joe and Strowman as guys who needed those heavy wins. In comparison to HHH's during his reign? Yeeeeaahhhhhhh. Some might even throw Roman's ass in there but that's another situation. Some might even throw Orton but luckily the Wyatts and SDL saved him. Regardless, when I look at both sets of feuds with HHHs I see him mostly feuding with guys who are stars while with Lesnar's I see him feuding with newer guys who need that rub. If they switched spots? HHH would make those guys Lesnar faced look way better and in turn if Lesnar faced those guys HHH faced, they've be beaten without much damage given how big they already were. Beyond that we also have to look around the RoT where they had a lot of main event guys who had a certain level of star quality. Today's WWE during Lesnar's reign doesn't, we have guys but they're not main eventers for the most part and when they are? You have people say that they don't have the credentials, resume nor the wins for that spot. So when you get a strong guy beat someone who's not up to their level? It doesn't help anyone out.
People might think the RoT was worse but one thing we don't need to do is act like Trips "ruining potential stars" is worse than Lesnar. If you look at the stats that's clearly false and if anyone disagrees then shit, I wanna see some receipts for that one. Lesnar's hurt way more people that Trips did. Let alone the fact that he did it all clean with no help, shenanigans nor weapons.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2018 11:47:55 GMT -5
I'm not sure if it's a Reign of Terror, but it sure is a terrible f***ing reign.
|
|
|
Post by hbkwrestlinggod on Apr 30, 2018 12:03:53 GMT -5
Neither are reign of terrors, especially HHH. I think the idea of HHH's 2003-2005 run being the "reign of terror" is a complete incorrect myth. The HHH\Batista feud was the second biggest feud of the attitude era behind only Rock\Cena. The attitude era was dead long before then Edited: *Post* attitude era was what I intended to say.
|
|
The Ichi
Patti Mayonnaise
AGGRESSIVE Executive Janitor of the Third Floor Manager's Bathroom
Posts: 37,396
|
Post by The Ichi on Apr 30, 2018 12:10:43 GMT -5
Feuds weren't the only thing that made the reign of terror the reign of terror. That's only one part of it. There was also the 20 minute opening promos and the fact that it happened right after wrestling was at arguably its hottest ever point.
Brocks might be worse when you really break it down, but nobody really cares anymore besides the die hards. We're in an era of apathy right now. HHH killed so much interest in the company during his run and seemingly just to fellate himself on live television. That's why its the Reign of Terror, it's a title that can't be changed.
|
|
Sparkybob
King Koopa
I have a status?
Posts: 10,996
|
Post by Sparkybob on Apr 30, 2018 12:29:11 GMT -5
We gotta address something else too. I've seen a lot of posts about Triple H "ruining potential stars" but I have to ask who do yall have that he ruined? Do you know how many potential stars he took out? I've just gone through each feud Trips had during the Reign of Terror starting in 2002 through 2005 and here's what we have. - RVD (a star, lost to HHH due to Flair and Trip's sledgehammer, kept elevating after the match) - Kane (a star, lost to HHH due to Flair and Trip's sledgehammer, kept elevating after the match, ended up winning the feud in a non-title casket match a week later) - HBK (a star, beat HHH for the title, lost the title to HHH months later due to Flair's help) - RVD and Kane (stars, beat Flair and Trips in a tag title feud) - Steiner (lost to HHH due to his boys and the sledgehammer) - Booker T (inexcusable, a star that lost due to Flair) - Nash (DQ'd but Nash laid HHH out afterwards, HIAC Nash lost) - Goldberg (Goldberg won repeatedly, lost the Armageddon match due to Evolution) - HBK (draw) - Benoit (Benoit won) - HBK (HHH won) - Benoit (Benoit won again) - Eugene (weird match but HHH won) - Orton (lost due to Evolution inteference) - HBK (lost due to Edge interference) - Batista (beat Trips and ended the reign) Kane absolutely lost momentum the first time. Kane possibly could have been the IC Champ/Tag team Champ/World Champ which would have been a historic achievement. (HHH won the IC belt in this match and it got unified so big woop) Orton was bad. Maybe not all Hunter's fault but a big portion of the blame goes to Trips. Beating Orton after a month of his run ws very very dumb.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2018 12:42:26 GMT -5
We gotta address something else too. I've seen a lot of posts about Triple H "ruining potential stars" but I have to ask who do yall have that he ruined? Do you know how many potential stars he took out? I've just gone through each feud Trips had during the Reign of Terror starting in 2002 through 2005 and here's what we have. - RVD (a star, lost to HHH due to Flair and Trip's sledgehammer, kept elevating after the match) - Kane (a star, lost to HHH due to Flair and Trip's sledgehammer, kept elevating after the match, ended up winning the feud in a non-title casket match a week later) - HBK (a star, beat HHH for the title, lost the title to HHH months later due to Flair's help) - RVD and Kane (stars, beat Flair and Trips in a tag title feud) - Steiner (lost to HHH due to his boys and the sledgehammer) - Booker T (inexcusable, a star that lost due to Flair) - Nash (DQ'd but Nash laid HHH out afterwards, HIAC Nash lost) - Goldberg (Goldberg won repeatedly, lost the Armageddon match due to Evolution) - HBK (draw) - Benoit (Benoit won) - HBK (HHH won) - Benoit (Benoit won again) - Eugene (weird match but HHH won) - Orton (lost due to Evolution inteference) - HBK (lost due to Edge interference) - Batista (beat Trips and ended the reign) Kane absolutely lost momentum the first time. Kane possibly could have been the IC Champ/Tag team Champ/World Champ which would have been a historic achievement. (HHH won the IC belt in this match and it got unified so big woop) Orton was bad. Maybe not all Hunter's fault but a big portion of the blame goes to Trips. Beating Orton after a month of his run ws very very dumb. Kane was already a star by that point which is what I'm saying. Triple H didn't ruin Kane in becoming a potential star because the guy was already made. There's a difference between beating someone who's a star and beating someone who's not. Had Kane retired after the HHH match his legacy would already be cemented in WWE history. If you compare that to others then the same wouldn't apply. I'm speaking about guys who are already made (the Kanes, WCW classics, RVD and such) against guys who need to get those wins. Ambrose and others who faced Lesnar needed those wins way more than Kane needed that HHH win. As for Orton, his mistakes were not on solely on Hunter so I'm not placing the blame on him at this point. There's a difference between putting the blame on Hunter's reign and backstage issues and Orton's issues were the latter.
|
|
|
Post by Can you afford to pay me, Gah on Apr 30, 2018 13:05:44 GMT -5
We gotta address something else too. I've seen a lot of posts about Triple H "ruining potential stars" but I have to ask who do yall have that he ruined? Do you know how many potential stars he took out? I've just gone through each feud Trips had during the Reign of Terror starting in 2002 through 2005 and here's what we have. - RVD (a star, lost to HHH due to Flair and Trip's sledgehammer, kept elevating after the match) - Kane (a star, lost to HHH due to Flair and Trip's sledgehammer, kept elevating after the match, ended up winning the feud in a non-title casket match a week later) - HBK (a star, beat HHH for the title, lost the title to HHH months later due to Flair's help) - RVD and Kane (stars, beat Flair and Trips in a tag title feud) - Steiner (lost to HHH due to his boys and the sledgehammer) - Booker T (inexcusable, a star that lost due to Flair) - Nash (DQ'd but Nash laid HHH out afterwards, HIAC Nash lost) - Goldberg (Goldberg won repeatedly, lost the Armageddon match due to Evolution) - HBK (draw) - Benoit (Benoit won) - HBK (HHH won) - Benoit (Benoit won again) - Eugene (weird match but HHH won) - Orton (lost due to Evolution inteference) - HBK (lost due to Edge interference) - Batista (beat Trips and ended the reign) Those are the only feuds the guy had during that time. Booker T is the only guy who Triple H feuded with during that time who took a major hit. Well, Orton did as well but that was more along of what he was doing in real life so he's excused. All the others didn't need it, continued to elevate or ended up beating Triple H. You cannot excuse Booker. As for Lesnar, let's go through each feud he's had since he's beaten Taker. - Cena (beat Cena) - Cena and Rollins (beat them) - Roman Reigns (and Rollins) (yep) - Rollins (Rollins via DQ) - Kofi (BITE, needed that win) - Taker (Lesnar ended the feud) - Ambrose and Reigns (lost the match when Reigns beat Ambrose) - Ambrose (you know the result) - Orton (yepppppppppp, Orton was a bitch) - Goldberg (Bill pulled through) Now we get the Universal Champion Saga - Joe (Joe needed that win) - Strowman (needed that win) - Styles (Styles lost but he looked great) - Strowman and Kane (ugh) - Reigns (yepppppppppppppppppppppppppppppp) When I look at this I see Ambrose, Kofi, Joe and Strowman as guys who needed those heavy wins. In comparison to HHH's during his reign? Yeeeeaahhhhhhh. Some might even throw Roman's ass in there but that's another situation. Some might even throw Orton but luckily the Wyatts and SDL saved him. Regardless, when I look at both sets of feuds with HHHs I see him mostly feuding with guys who are stars while with Lesnar's I see him feuding with newer guys who need that rub. If they switched spots? HHH would make those guys Lesnar faced look way better and in turn if Lesnar faced those guys HHH faced, they've be beaten without much damage given how big they already were. Beyond that we also have to look around the RoT where they had a lot of main event guys who had a certain level of star quality. Today's WWE during Lesnar's reign doesn't, we have guys but they're not main eventers for the most part and when they are? You have people say that they don't have the credentials, resume nor the wins for that spot. So when you get a strong guy beat someone who's not up to their level? It doesn't help anyone out. People might think the RoT was worse but one thing we don't need to do is act like Trips "ruining potential stars" is worse than Lesnar. If you look at the stats that's clearly false and if anyone disagrees then shit, I wanna see some receipts for that one. Lesnar's hurt way more people that Trips did. Let alone the fact that he did it all clean with no help, shenanigans nor weapons. As much as I hated HHH run when you look back on and know why it happened the way it did. A lot of it was justified and a lot of what poor timing or booking choices. Starting with RVD he was the hottest hand in the WWE at the time and would made sense to give him the title run. They teased it against Taker, the issue was HHH just got the belt when they decided to make Brock Smackdown only. Which was a bad move and just handing HHH the title was even worst. How HHH got the belt aside should have HHH lost the title weeks later? Not really. If it was me, the chamber should been his night. Kane honestly this was the worst version of Kane period and the angle around this match was even worst. When Kane returned from injury and had him act far to human right out the gate, just didn't care for it. Kane as champion acting the way he was leading up to it, just not buying in. Steiner: Honestly the first problem was having this title shot his first match period. As much people blame HHH for making Steiner look bad, Steiner was just god awful period. Honestly after what we saw from the guy, looking back did we really think he would been the better choice as champion? Booker T everyone because of the angle says Booker should have one. I agree but people also forgetting that at the same time he was thinking retirement. I think that played a role in him winning the belt or not. Match itself should been booked better in the ending. For me if I found out Booker was staying, I make the rematch. Nash: Honestly who really wanted Nash as champion? Sure the comeback story was nice but really? It didn't help Nash to not get a win in anyway during this. As nice it was to see HBK get a month title run, after proven he still got it. Sure I love a more legit run,but not sure how I would fit it. RVD and Booker overall would been the big benefit with the title.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2018 13:29:21 GMT -5
We gotta address something else too. I've seen a lot of posts about Triple H "ruining potential stars" but I have to ask who do yall have that he ruined? Do you know how many potential stars he took out? I've just gone through each feud Trips had during the Reign of Terror starting in 2002 through 2005 and here's what we have. - RVD (a star, lost to HHH due to Flair and Trip's sledgehammer, kept elevating after the match) - Kane (a star, lost to HHH due to Flair and Trip's sledgehammer, kept elevating after the match, ended up winning the feud in a non-title casket match a week later) - HBK (a star, beat HHH for the title, lost the title to HHH months later due to Flair's help) - RVD and Kane (stars, beat Flair and Trips in a tag title feud) - Steiner (lost to HHH due to his boys and the sledgehammer) - Booker T (inexcusable, a star that lost due to Flair) - Nash (DQ'd but Nash laid HHH out afterwards, HIAC Nash lost) - Goldberg (Goldberg won repeatedly, lost the Armageddon match due to Evolution) - HBK (draw) - Benoit (Benoit won) - HBK (HHH won) - Benoit (Benoit won again) - Eugene (weird match but HHH won) - Orton (lost due to Evolution inteference) - HBK (lost due to Edge interference) - Batista (beat Trips and ended the reign) Those are the only feuds the guy had during that time. Booker T is the only guy who Triple H feuded with during that time who took a major hit. Well, Orton did as well but that was more along of what he was doing in real life so he's excused. All the others didn't need it, continued to elevate or ended up beating Triple H. You cannot excuse Booker. As for Lesnar, let's go through each feud he's had since he's beaten Taker. - Cena (beat Cena) - Cena and Rollins (beat them) - Roman Reigns (and Rollins) (yep) - Rollins (Rollins via DQ) - Kofi (BITE, needed that win) - Taker (Lesnar ended the feud) - Ambrose and Reigns (lost the match when Reigns beat Ambrose) - Ambrose (you know the result) - Orton (yepppppppppp, Orton was a bitch) - Goldberg (Bill pulled through) Now we get the Universal Champion Saga - Joe (Joe needed that win) - Strowman (needed that win) - Styles (Styles lost but he looked great) - Strowman and Kane (ugh) - Reigns (yepppppppppppppppppppppppppppppp) When I look at this I see Ambrose, Kofi, Joe and Strowman as guys who needed those heavy wins. In comparison to HHH's during his reign? Yeeeeaahhhhhhh. Some might even throw Roman's ass in there but that's another situation. Some might even throw Orton but luckily the Wyatts and SDL saved him. Regardless, when I look at both sets of feuds with HHHs I see him mostly feuding with guys who are stars while with Lesnar's I see him feuding with newer guys who need that rub. If they switched spots? HHH would make those guys Lesnar faced look way better and in turn if Lesnar faced those guys HHH faced, they've be beaten without much damage given how big they already were. Beyond that we also have to look around the RoT where they had a lot of main event guys who had a certain level of star quality. Today's WWE during Lesnar's reign doesn't, we have guys but they're not main eventers for the most part and when they are? You have people say that they don't have the credentials, resume nor the wins for that spot. So when you get a strong guy beat someone who's not up to their level? It doesn't help anyone out. People might think the RoT was worse but one thing we don't need to do is act like Trips "ruining potential stars" is worse than Lesnar. If you look at the stats that's clearly false and if anyone disagrees then shit, I wanna see some receipts for that one. Lesnar's hurt way more people that Trips did. Let alone the fact that he did it all clean with no help, shenanigans nor weapons. As much as I hated HHH run when you look back on and know why it happened the way it did. A lot of it was justified and a lot of what poor timing or booking choices. Starting with RVD he was the hottest hand in the WWE at the time and would made sense to give him the title run. They teased it against Taker, the issue was HHH just got the belt when they decided to make Brock Smackdown only. Which was a bad move and just handing HHH the title was even worst. How HHH got the belt aside should have HHH lost the title weeks later? Not really. If it was me, the chamber should been his night. Kane honestly this was the worst version of Kane period and the angle around this match was even worst. When Kane returned from injury and had him act far to human right out the gate, just didn't care for it. Kane as champion acting the way he was leading up to it, just not buying in. Steiner: Honestly the first problem was having this title shot his first match period. As much people blame HHH for making Steiner look bad, Steiner was just god awful period. Honestly after what we saw from the guy, looking back did we really think he would been the better choice as champion? Booker T everyone because of the angle says Booker should have one. I agree but people also forgetting that at the same time he was thinking retirement. I think that played a role in him winning the belt or not. Match itself should been booked better in the ending. For me if I found out Booker was staying, I make the rematch. Nash: Honestly who really wanted Nash as champion? Sure the comeback story was nice but really? It didn't help Nash to not get a win in anyway during this. As nice it was to see HBK get a month title run, after proven he still got it. Sure I love a more legit run,but not sure how I would fit it. RVD and Booker overall would been the big benefit with the title. Yeah I had to do some looking into it because in retrospect it wasn't like I figured it was. You had Hunter going against all these established stars while the newer ones were being built up and ended up beating him most cases. I mean even Steiner for as bad as he is, the guy was destroying Trips in those promo segments where it was in competitions, beating him up or punking him out. The match was just bad though. Unlike with Lesnar's reigns, HHH's opponents here, I can see why they'd lose given the situations provided. I can't find any legit situations as to why Lesnar's opponents lost given they had pretty much every bracket checked off. And another thing is that I forgot how many times HHH and HBK fought during this time. It was crazy.
|
|
mo
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 16,790
Member is Online
|
Post by mo on Apr 30, 2018 13:36:20 GMT -5
Hell no, HHH reign was the first time I realized that this stuff might not be for me anymore. Still can’t stand Triple H because of it.
|
|
|
Post by Cyno on Apr 30, 2018 13:50:24 GMT -5
Definitely Lesnar for me, though I was also checked out of wrestling during the Reign of Terror era for reasons that really didn't have much of anything to do with the Reign of Terror itself.
|
|
Sparkybob
King Koopa
I have a status?
Posts: 10,996
|
Post by Sparkybob on Apr 30, 2018 14:12:43 GMT -5
Kane absolutely lost momentum the first time. Kane possibly could have been the IC Champ/Tag team Champ/World Champ which would have been a historic achievement. (HHH won the IC belt in this match and it got unified so big woop) Orton was bad. Maybe not all Hunter's fault but a big portion of the blame goes to Trips. Beating Orton after a month of his run ws very very dumb. Kane was already a star by that point which is what I'm saying. Triple H didn't ruin Kane in becoming a potential star because the guy was already made. There's a difference between beating someone who's a star and beating someone who's not. Had Kane retired after the HHH match his legacy would already be cemented in WWE history. If you compare that to others then the same wouldn't apply. I'm speaking about guys who are already made (the Kanes, WCW classics, RVD and such) against guys who need to get those wins. Ambrose and others who faced Lesnar needed those wins way more than Kane needed that HHH win. As for Orton, his mistakes were not on solely on Hunter so I'm not placing the blame on him at this point. There's a difference between putting the blame on Hunter's reign and backstage issues and Orton's issues were the latter. Kane was never at a top babyface level by the time of the first Hunter program. (Unless I was wrong I did not watch until 2002). Kane was only world champion for a day too so he never had a true run with the belt. Not only did Kane fail to win the WHC, he also lost his IC title in the match too! Hunter when he got the belt basically just unified it away. As a small parallel CM Punk was elevated greatly by MITB 2011 even though he was a multi time world champion by then. Kane could have been solidify as a main event babyface carrying around the IC/Tag Title/WHC for a couple of months before dropping it so Hunter can main event at Mania again. On Orton the issue is Benoit jobbed to him clean at Summerslam and even did the post match respect handshake which lead to Randy losing the belt a month later. So it makes Chris look like crap for losing to a guy who could not even last 6 weeks with the belt. If Randy had issues backstage it will be odd that they kept him in the main event scene the whole Fall 2014 and even had him fight Hunter for the belt at the Royal Rumble. I don't doubt Randy was a dick but his problem was he was not that over and then Hunter killed him further by beating him. If he was being punished for being a jerk I would expect it to be more like Swagger/2009 Punk who after they drop the title went back to the midcard abyss.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2018 14:15:15 GMT -5
Nah. I love me some HHH but his never ending show opening promos every week were the drizzling shits. Brock is barely there so no one really cares.
|
|
|
Post by Hit Girl on Apr 30, 2018 14:31:49 GMT -5
No because Brock isn't around as much, which makes it tolerable. HHH wasn't only burying people, but doing 20 minute promos every week to tell people how awesome and undefeatable he was, then booking himself to be proven right.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2018 14:39:50 GMT -5
Kane was already a star by that point which is what I'm saying. Triple H didn't ruin Kane in becoming a potential star because the guy was already made. There's a difference between beating someone who's a star and beating someone who's not. Had Kane retired after the HHH match his legacy would already be cemented in WWE history. If you compare that to others then the same wouldn't apply. I'm speaking about guys who are already made (the Kanes, WCW classics, RVD and such) against guys who need to get those wins. Ambrose and others who faced Lesnar needed those wins way more than Kane needed that HHH win. As for Orton, his mistakes were not on solely on Hunter so I'm not placing the blame on him at this point. There's a difference between putting the blame on Hunter's reign and backstage issues and Orton's issues were the latter. Kane was never at a top babyface level by the time of the first Hunter program. (Unless I was wrong I did not watch until 2002). Kane was only world champion for a day too so he never had a true run with the belt. Not only did Kane fail to win the WHC, he also lost his IC title in the match too! Hunter when he got the belt basically just unified it away. As a small parallel CM Punk was elevated greatly by MITB 2011 even though he was a multi time world champion by then. Kane could have been solidify as a main event babyface carrying around the IC/Tag Title/WHC for a couple of months before dropping it so Hunter can main event at Mania again. On Orton the issue is Benoit jobbed to him clean at Summerslam and even did the post match respect handshake which lead to Randy losing the belt a month later. So it makes Chris look like crap for losing to a guy who could not even last 6 weeks with the belt. If Randy had issues backstage it will be odd that they kept him in the main event scene the whole Fall 2014 and even had him fight Hunter for the belt at the Royal Rumble. I don't doubt Randy was a dick but his problem was he was not that over and then Hunter killed him further by beating him. If he was being punished for being a jerk I would expect it to be more like Swagger/2009 Punk who after they drop the title went back to the midcard abyss. The Kane thing is besides the point I'm making though. I'm not talking about how much he was on screen or what titles he's won, I'm talking about the fact that by the time the Kane/HHH feud started Kane was already a well-known star at that point. His best moments were prior, he was known throughout the Attitude Era, he was in a good spot and was cemented. Sure, he could have become a main event multi-time world champion but the fact he became a known famous star without that is what I meant by Triple H "ruining potential stars" in the beginning. Kane wasn't a potential star, he was already a star. That's what I'm saying. I'm not talking about Kane becoming one of the mega-elites. Nah I think that was all on Orton's backstage issues or at least that's how the company's stated it given they even brought up that being the reason he lost the belt during that Orton documentary around 2011. In a way it was similar to Reigns in that Reigns got hit with that wellness stuff but he was still in the main events and getting midcard titles. Besides that Orton had really started to get great with his Legend Killer gimmick as the Taker feud happened a few months after that HHH match did. Orton was still in these heavy situations regardless of the HHH match. He wasn't really damaged like many other stars.
|
|
|
Post by sportatorium on Apr 30, 2018 14:42:04 GMT -5
HHH was much worse for me. The seemingly endless promos to start the show each week, his portrayal of the “cool heel” even though nobody thought he was cool. I just wanted it to end and not in the wrestling “I want the babyface to win” way.
Brock’s is more from frustration because they could use him to put someone over just like he did with Goldberg, but they have zero trust in the roster to run with the ball. Samoa Joe was 100% over as a heel when they feuded, and would have been fine as champion. Instead, more Brock.
|
|
|
Post by A Platypus Rave on Apr 30, 2018 14:43:10 GMT -5
Say what you will about the Reign of Terror, but at least Triple H was actually around, actually had contenders on a regular basis, and treated the belt like it was his child and the most important thing to him. Brock, on the other hand, seems to treat it like another prop and makes people forget Raw even has a top championship. HHH being around for his is exactly what makes it worse. YEah, the biggest problem with the reign of terror was that no one could get elevated to a main event status because HHH needed that space for his 30 minute promos of nothing important... followed by shooting people back down the card. Brock not being around doesn't stall anyone's momentum. Them feeding everyone to Roman and then Roman to Brock does... but they still don't get shunted down to the midcard quite as fast as the Reign of Terror days. Not that Brock holding the title as long as he has is a good thing either... that said Brock still seems pretty decently over with the crowds.
|
|
mcstoklasa
Hank Scorpio
Sigs/Avatars cannot exceed 1MB
Posts: 6,948
|
Post by mcstoklasa on Apr 30, 2018 14:47:57 GMT -5
Both bored the hell out of me. While Trips running roughshod over the WCW Allstars pissed me off, the fact that Brock pulled some BS politics bullshit and not only got the title for agreeing to let Goldberg squash him, but he’s gone Mania to Mania with a death grip on that bad boy. At least Trips eventually put Batista over as an end game. Brock ended the streak, has had the belt for over a year, derailed the Owens and Jericho feud because of it, made the Roman push pointless and I doubt they even do the right thing and use him to strap a rocket to Braun. The Goldberg Brock match was a lot better than the Jericho Owens match in my opinion
|
|
|
Post by Rudy Gobert Fadeaway on Apr 30, 2018 14:52:03 GMT -5
Nah, not even close. The Reign of Terror will literally be remembered forever because of how bad it was. Lesnar's run has just been a bland, forgettable slog that's gone on forever and will feel like it never happened once it ends.
|
|