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Post by YAKMAN is ICHIBAN on May 25, 2018 9:35:58 GMT -5
I liked the story that the seemed to be building to in NXT - Asuka went from a face with confident victories, slowly became more and more cocky, started taking heel shortcuts.
Her arrogance being her downfall would have been a great story
Instead it was an anticlimax
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Post by A Platypus Rave on May 25, 2018 12:41:41 GMT -5
There was no one they wanted to propel that way. Beating Asuka puts you at the top of the division and that’s where they wanted Charlotte. I don’t know why people thought an Ember or someone would get that win. As much as people think streaks are meant to put someone new over that’s almost never how they actually end. Charlotte was already at the top of the division though! She's a six-time champion after having been on the roster for three years, is one of the first two women to have ever main evented a WWE PPV, and has a whole bunch of other bullshit resume-padding accolades to her name. I understand what WWE's intentions were but their intentions were really short-sighted and stupid. Asuka's win would've benefited literally anyone else more. Yeah... can't agree that Charlotte was at all lifted by beating Asuka. Her resume is already packed she's already treated and considered as the #1 woman in the company. Her beating Asuka didn't do shit for her other than adding another accolade that she didn't really need. |
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Bub (BLM)
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Post by Bub (BLM) on May 25, 2018 13:41:29 GMT -5
What a great moment that could have been if it wasn't given to one of the most terminally dull folks on the whole roster. Like, even Carmella would have been better, because at least she'd be able to get some Heyman style heat out of it. I still think Carmella cashing in after the Charlotte match was the way to go. Asuka is still dominant but doesn't have the albatross of ALWAYS needing to win. Carmella gets to have heel heat of being the one to beat Asuka that she can have as a feather in her cap forever... when everyone knows she did it in a cheap way. That's what I was saying the second it happened. Would have done way more for Carmella than it has for Charlotte, and Asuka wouldn't have been made to look so lame. |
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Post by Hit Girl on May 25, 2018 16:31:31 GMT -5
Waste of time. They did nothing with it.
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Cronant
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Post by Cronant on May 25, 2018 16:48:05 GMT -5
Charlotte was very obviously lifted by it. What happens after didnt change that one bit. Was she? She doesn’t feel more special or important at all. I think she does. She very clearly feels like the top woman regardless of her losing afterwards. Keep in mind her move to Smackdown followed by months of blahness hurt her a bit, like how every woman there was seemingly not doing much between WM 33 and 34. The spotlight and hype from that Mania match put her back where they wanted her, as someone who could plausibly be considered one of the top 4-5 stars on the brand. The point of someone ending the streak in the first place is for WWE to say that that person is at the top of the division, so it doesn't make sense for 'someone new' to be elevated unless WWE is actually going to push them as the top. As much as as people are saying "it led nowhere", thats exactly what you're advocating for by saying it should have been for elevating someone else. IF Ronda and Charlotte are actually going to main event next years Mania then there's only 2 choices to end Asukas streak, otherwise its a waste. That is historically how wrestling streaks have gone. Cena ended Umagas streak, and Rusevs. Brock was the one to end Takers streak. Hogan beat Andre. Its an confirmation of someone whos already at the top. |
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2018 17:01:51 GMT -5
What is funny about how they ended it was that the PERFECT scenario stared them right in the face to automatically shoot someone right to to the top of the division.
because THEY DEBUTED EMBER THE VERY NEXT NIGHT!! All that had to happen is have Asuka cut a not heel but an arrogant promo and have Ember debut and challenge her to a non title match.....think of it in the same way Paige debuted against AJ.
It was such an easy layup that even stevie wonder and a def monkey could have done it.
This was simply about padding out Charlottes list of forced accomplishments because she is pretty much locked in to face Ronda next year....it did nothing for charlotte IMO she is the same woman and Asuka has become just another woman.
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Cronant
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Post by Cronant on May 25, 2018 17:13:27 GMT -5
What is funny about how they ended it was that the PERFECT scenario stared them right in the face to automatically shoot someone right to to the top of the division. because THEY DEBUTED EMBER THE VERY NEXT NIGHT!! All that had to happen is have Asuka cut a not heel but an arrogant promo and have Ember debut and challenge her to a non title match.....think of it in the same way Paige debuted against AJ. It was such an easy layup that even stevie wonder and a def monkey could have done it. This was simply about padding out Charlottes list of forced accomplishments because she is pretty much locked in to face Ronda next year....it did nothing for charlotte IMO she is the same woman and Asuka has become just another woman. But then the same argument can be used for Ember. What does it do for her if Nia is still champion and she's not getting near it anytime soon? She's going to be on RAW wrestling normal matches, sometimes losing, except "hey she beat Asuka on RAW with no build that one time". Its not just the big win that makes someone. There's got to be something afterwards, and if WWE has a long term plan for 2 women then one of those 2 should end Asukas streak. |
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Post by theironyuppie on May 25, 2018 22:35:18 GMT -5
I think they booked themselves into a corner with waiting so long to have Carmella cash in, and that what they did was the best choice given that they were going to have Carmella win the title no matter what. Carmella has an unfortunate pattern of being unable to retain heat for more than a week (see after the MITB match and after winning the title), and I think fans would have felt cheated if Asuka lost her streak via a Carmella run-in. Better to do so through a great match on the biggest stage of all, I say. Similarly, I think doing the cash-in on the post-Mania SDL was the right time in the circumstances--Carmella running in at Mania would have felt really jarring given the way the Asuka/Charlotte match was presented as a fast-paced technical contest. That match also got a lot of positive buzz, and rightly so--it and the Ronda match from what I've seen were the two most praised matches of the night. I know some didn't like the post-match, but I thought it was an earned moment given how well they performed, and it also helped set up expectations for the AJ/Naka ending that of course ended in a heel turn instead.
As for Carmella's reign itself, while its nice to see her getting a run, I'm guessing that by the time they seriously build to Mania (maybe even SummerSlam), people aren't going to remember it as its essentially filler. I don't think they're doing an Alexa thing with her as she isn't getting an accompanying merch blitz.
And yes, they should have done the Cena running bit after the US Title match instead, but whatever.
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Allie Kitsune
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Post by Allie Kitsune on May 25, 2018 22:56:21 GMT -5
Charlotte was already at the top of the division though! She's a six-time champion after having been on the roster for three years, is one of the first two women to have ever main evented a WWE PPV, and has a whole bunch of other bullshit resume-padding accolades to her name. I understand what WWE's intentions were but their intentions were really short-sighted and stupid. Asuka's win would've benefited literally anyone else more. Yeah... can't agree that Charlotte was at all lifted by beating Asuka. Her resume is already packed she's already treated and considered as the #1 woman in the company. Her beating Asuka didn't do shit for her other than adding another accolade that she didn't really need. I didn't mind Asuka losing, but for the world, I'll always think that Ember should have been the one to do it. |
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Post by theironyuppie on May 25, 2018 23:56:29 GMT -5
Yeah... can't agree that Charlotte was at all lifted by beating Asuka. Her resume is already packed she's already treated and considered as the #1 woman in the company. Her beating Asuka didn't do shit for her other than adding another accolade that she didn't really need. I didn't mind Asuka losing, but for the world, I'll always think that Ember should have been the one to do it.
That would have been a great moment, but I think to do that they would have had to change a lot of booking, including having Asuka rather than Nia beat Alexa at Mania.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on May 26, 2018 11:18:43 GMT -5
Yeah... can't agree that Charlotte was at all lifted by beating Asuka. Her resume is already packed she's already treated and considered as the #1 woman in the company. Her beating Asuka didn't do shit for her other than adding another accolade that she didn't really need. I didn't mind Asuka losing, but for the world, I'll always think that Ember should have been the one to do it. I don't even like Ember, but you're right. Asuka always had Ember's number and I feel like it's made Ember's subsequent character weak as shit. Didn't Asuka even kick her out of the Rumble? I mean, personally speaking, I get a great deal of schadenfraude out of Ember never being able to get over Asuka even in the Rumble, but her character is basically a writeoff to me now. |
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Post by Hobby Drifter on May 27, 2018 0:33:55 GMT -5
Full-on undefeated streaks become an albatross if they go on too long. Undertaker wasn't "undefeated"; he was "undefeated at one particular yearly show". Having a full-stop NO LOSSES streak, on a weekly show, puts a huge limit on storytelling options and progression, especially when the holder of that streak is a babyface.
She lost it to the biggest name in WWE, on the biggest show in WWE, before it became too much of a problem. No problems with the booking decision.
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Post by Jedi-El of Tomorrow on May 27, 2018 1:17:57 GMT -5
I didn't mind Asuka losing, but for the world, I'll always think that Ember should have been the one to do it. I don't even like Ember, but you're right. Asuka always had Ember's number and I feel like it's made Ember's subsequent character weak as shit. Didn't Asuka even kick her out of the Rumble? I mean, personally speaking, I get a great deal of schadenfraude out of Ember never being able to get over Asuka even in the Rumble, but her character is basically a writeoff to me now. Yeah, Asuka eliminated her at Rumble. The story of their rivalry was that Ember was the one that gave Asuka the most trouble, the one that would come the closest to dethroning Asuka. She lost their first match due to Asuka shoving the ref into the ropes, she made one mistake in the second one and that cost her the match, and at Rumble she was hurt and still hit Asuka with her finisher before the injury allowed Asuka to toss her. They had the perfect angle for Asuka's streak to end, Ember finally does it, the one person that has been the biggest challenge for Asuka, gets the win. It had the perfect storyline, and it would have vaulted Ember to the top. Hell, Asuka saying "Ember, you were ready for Asuka", would have made a lot more sense than her saying it Charlotte, due to their feud. |
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Post by Chestnutrice on May 27, 2018 2:28:26 GMT -5
I will never understand this idea that they "needed to end it." She was different from any other woman on the roster, now she's as much as a geek as the rest of them.
It's their fault for not doing anything with it. In NXT, she slowly started using heelish tactics because she felt that she needed to win. That's interesting and different. On the main roster, they never did, and then they booked her streak as the same corny "I like this person" feud. I get that it's two different shows, but why stop something that was working and made someone stand out, just to make them part of the 50/50 club.
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on May 27, 2018 4:18:43 GMT -5
Asuka's still plenty credible. Yeah, she lost clean, but it's still her only pin/submission loss in her entire nearly three year run in the company, and I think it's a bit fickle that some of us are writing her off after one loss.
The weird thing to me is more of how it's only just now where it looks like she's back in the title mix, and even then it's overshadowed by a more high-profile women's title match on the other brand and an all-women MITB match.
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repomark
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Post by repomark on May 27, 2018 5:55:35 GMT -5
I am concerned for Asuka in terms of the momentum she has now lost, but certainly I wouldn’t say her credibility is completely gone after only one loss to the most successful woman on the roster. I still think it was the wrong time to do it though, simply because it rendered the first Women’s Rumble match meaningless and now takes away one of the more obvious aspects of Asuka’s mystique before it needed to be. A lot of money left on the table.
Unbeaten streaks can be an albatross - but they can also add real intrigue into who will be the one to finally end it. That is now gone when they could have have gone till at least Summerslam - where Ronda dethrones her and becomes the new alpha female. It would have made so much sense in terms of continuity if up until that point Asuka had feuded with Ember Moon.
Carmella and the briefcase are where a lot of the booking headaches stemmed from - but I am afraid I have much less interest in Asuka v Carmella now than I would have done had they played this differently. Have her cash in on Nia Jax if they really didn’t want Carmella to lose her cash in, or even have her cash in before mania on Charlotte. Plenty of options around it that don’t mean ending Asuka’s streak quite yet.
This 50/50 booking is badly hurting the product and I hope was not part of the steak ending decision. Yes there is more tv time to fill than back in the day when all there was on TV for the most part was jobber squashes, but I don’t believe that everyone should be wrestling matches every week. Making the outcome of matches meaningless is one of their biggest current issues.
I like the idea that New Orleans is where streaks go to die - but I don’t think the city needed the push as much as Asuka did.
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Post by abjordans on May 27, 2018 8:54:26 GMT -5
Great match, but they fumbled the aftermath with Charlotte so bad that it is a mistake in retrospect. And I swear it doesn’t even seem like Asuka is on tv anymore.
Also, Mania is getting close to not even being canon anymore. It is almost like an exhibition of all they key components of WWE to lure investors and casual eyes who don’t normally watch. So, that match was essentially “Look! Ric Flair’s daughter! And she is badass!”, but had no real narrative in any story WWE is actually attempting to tell. Because that story was and is “sneaky Carmella sneaks passed Charlotte” and somehow Asuka got sacrificed in the middle.
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Post by Chestnutrice on May 27, 2018 14:29:23 GMT -5
Great match, but they fumbled the aftermath with Charlotte so bad that it is a mistake in retrospect. And I swear it doesn’t even seem like Asuka is on tv anymore. Also, Mania is getting close to not even being canon anymore. It is almost like an exhibition of all they key components of WWE to lure investors and casual eyes who don’t normally watch. So, that match was essentially “Look! Ric Flair’s daughter! And she is badass!”, but had no real narrative in any story WWE is actually attempting to tell. Because that story was and is “sneaky Carmella sneaks passed Charlotte” and somehow Asuka got sacrificed in the middle. Yeah ever since they LockBox thing, they just stopped giving a shit about stipulations and ramifications. Mania is just a bunch of exhibition matches, with Reigns main eventing. |
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Post by BatPunk on May 27, 2018 14:54:34 GMT -5
This whole Asuka loss meaning nothing just shows how WWE are not thinking about the easy ways to build characters and make their stars bigger names. It’s sad.
The funny thing is, as much as we bitch and moan about the person who won, Brock’s win over the Undertaker meant something. He went in to being absolutely dominant and it’s something wrestling fans will remember forever because it was done the right way.
Asuka’s loss meant nothing in retrospect. In years to come this conversation will be more like. “Oh yeah. I remember Asuka having a decent streak.......”
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on May 27, 2018 15:13:30 GMT -5
Charlotte is awesome, but she is treated like a big deal anyway most of the time. If I was booking WM34 I would have Asuka take the title, then have Mella snap the streak at Backlash. (Asuka would need a few weeks with the belt just for the sake of promotion.)
I don't feel Asuka was irreparably damaged by the Mania loss, but if they had gone all the way with her they could have a major star alongside Charlotte, and an intriguing three-way program right now.
Still, it's not like Asuka's Barry Horowitz now all of a sudden.
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