Burst
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Post by Burst on Mar 10, 2022 21:53:02 GMT -5
IIRC a lot of the complaints about the D were related to it being a very unbalanced design and subsequently the models being a comparative pain in the ass to work with in the pre-CGI era. Still, I'll definitely admit it cleaned up very well for the big screen as well as for the HD remaster of TNG.
In hindsight, there's just something very 90s about the Enterprise-E that I can't really elucidate, though I think a lot is the triangle of greeblies on the saucer section that are seemingly there just to make the ship look more aggressive.
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CMWaters
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Post by CMWaters on Mar 10, 2022 21:54:17 GMT -5
Not sure if you're referencing an actor or someone else with that... {Spoiler}{Spoiler}Meanwhile, wondering if this is actually Benjamin (ranking would work yes) or if in this timeline Jake was actually forced into service and actually did pretty well. And if the former, I wonder what The Prophets thought about all this... "In the Pale Moonlight" reference. {Spoiler}{Spoiler}Apparently someone involved with the show has confirmed it was Benjamin. Haven't confirmed that, myself, but as you say, the rank checks out.
Plus they're going back in time to the same year and same state as the Bell Riots from the DS9 two-parter "Past Tense". Could be some foreshadowing. Ah, missed that. {Spoiler}I would think he'd be upset though that he wasn't the one to kill Dukat instead of Picard, even if it's just a subtle timestream awareness similar to what the Borg Queen has here. |
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CMWaters
Ozymandius
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Post by CMWaters on Mar 10, 2022 21:59:50 GMT -5
In hindsight, there's just something very 90s about the Enterprise-E that I can't really elucidate, though I think a lot is the triangle of greeblies on the saucer section that are seemingly there just to make the ship look more aggressive. It makes sense though for the time period it was made. D's Galaxy Class was when, for the most part, the Federation was at peace. Hence you could have the, as I've heard it nicknamed, space mall plaza wandering around (and the Season 1 and 2 versions of the crew kinda reflected that 80s affluence as well). The E's Sovereign class came after one Borg incursion and the start of the Dominion War, and aggressive design had started to come up as early as the Defiant. Not saying you're wrong for not liking the design, but there is a method to the madness there, I would think. |
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Mar 10, 2022 22:10:24 GMT -5
{Spoiler}I would think he'd be upset though that he wasn't the one to kill Dukat instead of Picard, even if it's just a subtle timestream awareness similar to what the Borg Queen has here. {Spoiler}Given that even after forgiving Picard for his actions as Locutus Sisko wasn't exactly Picard's biggest fan, I'd like to think that there would be a general dislike of him in this reality, too. |
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Post by Limity (BLM) on Mar 10, 2022 22:51:34 GMT -5
In hindsight, there's just something very 90s about the Enterprise-E that I can't really elucidate, though I think a lot is the triangle of greeblies on the saucer section that are seemingly there just to make the ship look more aggressive. It makes sense though for the time period it was made. D's Galaxy Class was when, for the most part, the Federation was at peace. Hence you could have the, as I've heard it nicknamed, space mall plaza wandering around (and the Season 1 and 2 versions of the crew kinda reflected that 80s affluence as well). The E's Sovereign class came after one Borg incursion and the start of the Dominion War, and aggressive design had started to come up as early as the Defiant. Not saying you're wrong for not liking the design, but there is a method to the madness there, I would think. A youtuber called the Galaxy-class ship a glass cannon, which I think is a very good description. And while it and the show at the time was very peace minded in its thinking and presentation, the D could do some damage. Unfortunately we only saw it twice, in Best of Both Worlds and when the D fired on the Husnock warship, the true firepower it could unleash. One salvo like that and the BoP from Generations is history. |
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CMWaters
Ozymandius
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Post by CMWaters on Mar 10, 2022 22:56:14 GMT -5
It makes sense though for the time period it was made. D's Galaxy Class was when, for the most part, the Federation was at peace. Hence you could have the, as I've heard it nicknamed, space mall plaza wandering around (and the Season 1 and 2 versions of the crew kinda reflected that 80s affluence as well). The E's Sovereign class came after one Borg incursion and the start of the Dominion War, and aggressive design had started to come up as early as the Defiant. Not saying you're wrong for not liking the design, but there is a method to the madness there, I would think. A youtuber called the Galaxy-class ship a glass cannon, which I think is a very good description. And while it and the show at the time was very peace minded in its thinking and presentation, the D could do some damage. Unfortunately we only saw it twice, in Best of Both Worlds and when the D fired on the Husnock warship, the true firepower it could unleash. One salvo like that and the BoP from Generations is history. While more a curb stomping, another show of Enterprise-D's power was in "Conundrum" where the crew's memory was wiped and they were sent to destroy a far inferior technologically race (stopping at the last minute from crippling them and giving the opposing race an advantage in a long war). Regular sci-fi reviewer SFDBebris has said it was like a reenactment of The Borg entering our Solar System and easily obliterating planetary defenses...but with the Enterprise-D playing the role of the Borg Cube. |
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Post by The Captain on Mar 11, 2022 0:52:51 GMT -5
I'll always have a warm and fuzzy nostalgia feeling regarding Generations, but yeah your criticisms are very valid. The one I'd argue is that Picard only rejected his family when he realized they weren't real. And while the movies always played fast and loose with reusing visual effects shots, I think the worst was reusing a shot of the Enterpise from the television show, in the transition to the stellar cartography scene. I just take that as a few things why they didn't splurge for a new shot for that: 1)The ship was done after this episode anyway. 2)Short scene and it took place of an actual scene with Beverly and Data 3)A lot of new shot stuff was already taken up by the destruction of D (keep in mind this was still in the models days before CGI ships) 4)IIRC, and this could be misinformation I admit, but I heard that Berman HATED the Enterprise-D design and probably want as little to do with it as possible. Maybe even had a bit of glee (depending on how closely he followed the series at the time) at destroying a Galaxy-Class on Deep Space Nine shortly after TNG's end. Sounds like Rick Berman hated the Galaxy class design almost as much as he hated the concept of treating Trek's female actors with respect.
I guess that makes sense given the Academy is there. Though might get crowded after a bit if they have whole Starships I get that San Francisco is pretty much iconic for Trek, but I swear they go back to that well as badly as Star Wars keeps going back to Tatooine. Just for once I'd like to see something significant in Federation-era Earth, Starfleet-related or otherwise, based somewhere that's -not- in California.
Well, the office of the Federation President is in Paris, at least. And they used New Orleans a few times in DS9 because that's where Sisko is from.
Or it replaced the state of New Jersey, since it's canonical that Jersey doesn't exist by the 24th century.
New Jersey still exists, even if it isn't as a separate political entity because of the consolidation of Earth nation-states into the United Earth government. The Doctor's creator, Lewis Zimmerman is from there and the Jersey shore is still apparently a popular resort destination in some 24th C-set Trek books (which aren't canon, though it does seem like more stuff is being taken from them as canon).
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Mar 11, 2022 11:55:12 GMT -5
A few more bits of background info snuck into the show: {Spoiler}According to President Hanson's reports, the Andorian rebellion was being cleaned up by Lt. Col. Tasha Yar, the Dominion War was being led by General Miles O'Brien, and Col. Rios was facing a Vulcan fleet led by Tuvok. |
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CMWaters
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Post by CMWaters on Mar 11, 2022 14:28:23 GMT -5
A few more bits of background info snuck into the show: {Spoiler}{Spoiler}According to President Hanson's reports, the Andorian rebellion was being cleaned up by Lt. Col. Tasha Yar, the Dominion War was being led by General Miles O'Brien, and Col. Rios was facing a Vulcan fleet led by Tuvok. {Spoiler}For some reason I'm thinking that Tasha personally killed Worf in this timeline. |
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Post by The Captain on Mar 11, 2022 16:20:02 GMT -5
It's interesting seeing a different take on an authoritarian human government compared to the Terran Empire in the Mirror Universe. Especially since this one doesn't claim to be the successor state to the Roman Empire and is based more on modern dictatorships pretending to be democracies instead of a monarchy.
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CMWaters
Ozymandius
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Post by CMWaters on Mar 11, 2022 16:28:43 GMT -5
It's interesting seeing a different take on an authoritarian human government compared to the Terran Empire in the Mirror Universe. Especially since this one doesn't claim to be the successor state to the Roman Empire and is based more on modern dictatorships pretending to be democracies instead of a monarchy. Especially since there's a lot less (at least from what was seen) attempted backstabbing between humans than the original Mirror Universe. Stabbing someone not of Earth in the back, no problem. |
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Post by The Captain on Mar 11, 2022 16:37:31 GMT -5
It's interesting seeing a different take on an authoritarian human government compared to the Terran Empire in the Mirror Universe. Especially since this one doesn't claim to be the successor state to the Roman Empire and is based more on modern dictatorships pretending to be democracies instead of a monarchy. Especially since there's a lot less (at least from what was seen) attempted backstabbing between humans than the original Mirror Universe. Stabbing someone not of Earth in the back, no problem. Yeah, like the Terran Empire and the Mirror Universe in general are almost cartoonishly violent and aggressive. This Confederation feels like a more realistic take on it, especially since it uses similar imagery to the Federation and Starfleet. Granted, a ship being called the World Razer is a bit on the nose about it. |
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CMWaters
Ozymandius
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Post by CMWaters on Mar 11, 2022 16:43:47 GMT -5
Especially since there's a lot less (at least from what was seen) attempted backstabbing between humans than the original Mirror Universe. Stabbing someone not of Earth in the back, no problem. Yeah, like the Terran Empire and the Mirror Universe in general are almost cartoonishly violent and aggressive. This Confederation feels like a more realistic take on it, especially since it uses similar imagery to the Federation and Starfleet. Granted, a ship being called the World Razer is a bit on the nose about it. Naming conventions they found from chronicles of a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away.  |
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Mar 11, 2022 17:48:50 GMT -5
{Spoiler}For some reason I'm thinking that Tasha personally killed Worf in this timeline. I'm thinking otherwise... {Spoiler}  |
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Post by Zombie Mod on Mar 11, 2022 18:14:06 GMT -5
how many previous episode titles did Q namedrop?
yesterdays enterprise.
a mirror darkly.
are two I caught
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CMWaters
Ozymandius
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Post by CMWaters on Mar 11, 2022 19:23:10 GMT -5
how many previous episode titles did Q namedrop? yesterdays enterprise. a mirror darkly. are two I caught While it can be a reference, that second one is a bit more involved and COULD just have been a coincidence. From Memory-Alpha (Star Trek Wiki for all on-screen stuff...Memory Beta also includes novels, comics, etc.) "The title of this episode comes from a passage in the Bible (1 Corinthians 13:12 from the American Standard Version): "For now we see in a mirror, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know fully even as also I was fully known." The same verse (in the King James Bible, the relevant text reads "For now we see through a glass, darkly") is quoted by Captain Picard in Star Trek Nemesis." The second part understandable if forgotten because Star Trek: Nemesis. |
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Post by Zombie Mod on Mar 11, 2022 19:40:56 GMT -5
how many previous episode titles did Q namedrop? yesterdays enterprise. a mirror darkly. are two I caught While it can be a reference, that second one is a bit more involved and COULD just have been a coincidence. From Memory-Alpha (Star Trek Wiki for all on-screen stuff...Memory Beta also includes novels, comics, etc.) "The title of this episode comes from a passage in the Bible (1 Corinthians 13:12 from the American Standard Version): "For now we see in a mirror, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know fully even as also I was fully known." The same verse (in the King James Bible, the relevant text reads "For now we see through a glass, darkly") is quoted by Captain Picard in Star Trek Nemesis." The second part understandable if forgotten because Star Trek: Nemesis. it was also the name of the mirror universe 2 parter for star trek enterprise, I know it's a quote which they named the episodes after. probably just easter eggs for people to pick up on. |
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Mar 11, 2022 19:45:42 GMT -5
probably just easter eggs for people to pick up on. Given the number of massive Trek nerds who were brought into the creative team for this season, it's probably not surprising that a ton of easter eggs have been packed into the first couple of episodes. Presumably the number of easter eggs will dry up a little for the 2024 portion of the season. |
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CMWaters
Ozymandius
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Post by CMWaters on Mar 11, 2022 19:47:53 GMT -5
probably just easter eggs for people to pick up on. Given the number of massive Trek nerds who were brought into the creative team for this season, it's probably not surprising that a ton of easter eggs have been packed into the first couple of episodes. Presumably the number of easter eggs will dry up a little for the 2024 portion of the season. Would get a chuckle if we get some Star Trek IV references. Maybe follow up on the guy who Scotty gave the Transparent Aluminum code to. Also, different city, but 2024 WAS the year of the Bell Riots in DS9. Maybe a TV will show some of that in passing while Picard and company are doing their thing. |
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Mar 11, 2022 19:56:14 GMT -5
Also, different city, but 2024 WAS the year of the Bell Riots in DS9. Maybe a TV will show some of that in passing while Picard and company are doing their thing. While it could just be an easter egg, one of the trailers shows Raffi in a Sanctuary District.   Marc Bernardin is one of the senior producers this season, and given both his outspoken love of DS9 and the fact that he started out his career as an intern on DS9 I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if we see more DS9 ties in coming episodes. |
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