BorneAgain
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Post by BorneAgain on Oct 6, 2019 17:41:17 GMT -5
Voyager falls into more of the beige category of rarely reaching Enterprise's lows (Threshold & Tattoo aside), but not really reaching the latter's better consistency in season's 3/4 either. Janeway and company were the TV dinner of Trek; you always knew what you were getting and it wasn't much for surprising you with its choices or directions. Agreed. Voyager was never as bad as its most vocal detractors made it out to be, but was never that good either. The most frustrating thing for me was that it never truly made the most of its premise. Rarely did it feel like a show about a crew stranded on the other side of the known universe, struggling to get home with limited resources and a ragtag crew made up of rookies and wanted criminals. For the most part it felt like any other Trek show. Voyager might be one of the few shows that had showrunner changes, conflicts between producers about stories, different writer interpretations about characters... and somehow across 7 seasons still felt like the Trek show most made by assembly line. Its almost as if the behind the scenes issues somehow collectively sanded down any prominent edges the series could have had. |
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Oct 6, 2019 17:45:28 GMT -5
Agreed. Voyager was never as bad as its most vocal detractors made it out to be, but was never that good either. The most frustrating thing for me was that it never truly made the most of its premise. Rarely did it feel like a show about a crew stranded on the other side of the known universe, struggling to get home with limited resources and a ragtag crew made up of rookies and wanted criminals. For the most part it felt like any other Trek show. Voyager might be one of the few shows that had showrunner changes, conflicts between producers about stories, different writer interpretations about characters... and somehow across 7 seasons still felt like the Trek show most made by assembly line. Its almost as if the behind the scenes issues somehow collectively sanded down any prominent edges the series could have had. The behind the scenes squabblings over the length of Voyager's run may well be more interesting than Voyager itself. You could probably get a season's worth of material from the Kate Mulgrew-Jeri Ryan feud alone. |
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BorneAgain
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Post by BorneAgain on Oct 6, 2019 17:56:22 GMT -5
I didn't think Tattoo was that bad; an average episode of Voyage (which admittedly isn't great, but). But I thought the S2 episode with Tuvok crash-landed on a world with a bunch of apparent alien children was a lot worse just because the writing was pants-on-head stupid. The problem with Tattoo is mostly when you stop and really think about it - it's effectively about how Chakotay's people (who are already an awful sludge of stereotypes and inconsistent traits from many tribes as it is) were a bunch of mindless savages until space men (who happen to be white) came and gave him their culture. The only defense one could make about Tattoo is that (much like its dogmatic Prime Directive episodes) its core idea comes less from an ugly belief by the writers and more that they were too dim to realize how awful the implications of its story was. That's the Voyager writers at their worst for you: "Hey, we're not bigoted, we're just grossly incompetent." |
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Dr. T is an alien
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Post by Dr. T is an alien on Oct 6, 2019 19:21:52 GMT -5
Voyager falls into more of the beige category of rarely reaching Enterprise's lows (Threshold & Tattoo aside), but not really reaching the latter's better consistency in season's 3/4 either. Janeway and company were the TV dinner of Trek; you always knew what you were getting and it wasn't much for surprising you with its choices or directions. Agreed. Voyager was never as bad as its most vocal detractors made it out to be, but was never that good either. The most frustrating thing for me was that it never truly made the most of its premise. Rarely did it feel like a show about a crew stranded on the other side of the known universe, struggling to get home with limited resources and a ragtag crew made up of rookies and wanted criminals. For the most part it felt like any other Trek show. The worst part is that some of the paperback novels for Voyager covered the concept so much better. They had people involved in the brand that did much better than the show’s actually involved in writing the show. |
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Post by The Captain on Oct 6, 2019 20:32:09 GMT -5
Voyager might be one of the few shows that had showrunner changes, conflicts between producers about stories, different writer interpretations about characters... and somehow across 7 seasons still felt like the Trek show most made by assembly line. Its almost as if the behind the scenes issues somehow collectively sanded down any prominent edges the series could have had. The behind the scenes squabblings over the length of Voyager's run may well be more interesting than Voyager itself. You could probably get a season's worth of material from the Kate Mulgrew-Jeri Ryan feud alone. I had no idea there was a Jeri Ryan-Kate Mulgrew feud. Guess that means the really tense scenes that existed between Seven and Janeway weren't entirely acted?  |
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Oct 6, 2019 20:39:38 GMT -5
The behind the scenes squabblings over the length of Voyager's run may well be more interesting than Voyager itself. You could probably get a season's worth of material from the Kate Mulgrew-Jeri Ryan feud alone. I had no idea there was a Jeri Ryan-Kate Mulgrew feud. Guess that means the really tense scenes that existed between Seven and Janeway weren't entirely acted? The TL;DR version of it is Mulgrew felt threatened by Ryan when she joined the show, because focus shifted away from Janeway and towards Seven, and took issue with the producers at what she saw as little more than a cheap T&A gimmick to entice new viewers. Since she was unable to get the producers to see it her way, she took it out on Ryan... until Ryan started dating Brannon Braga. Ryan has told multiple stories over the years of on-set bullying from a female cast member, never actually naming Mulgrew but giving enough details to make it obvious exactly who it was. Mulgrew herself confirmed it a couple of years ago and admitted she handled things poorly. |
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Post by The Captain on Oct 6, 2019 20:51:05 GMT -5
I had no idea there was a Jeri Ryan-Kate Mulgrew feud. Guess that means the really tense scenes that existed between Seven and Janeway weren't entirely acted? The TL;DR version of it is Mulgrew felt threatened by Ryan when she joined the show, because focus shifted away from Janeway and towards Seven, and took issue with the producers at what she saw as little more than a cheap T&A gimmick to entice new viewers. Since she was unable to get the producers to see it her way, she took it out on Ryan... until Ryan started dating Brannon Braga. Ryan has told multiple stories over the years of on-set bullying from a female cast member, never actually naming Mulgrew but giving enough details to make it obvious exactly who it was. Mulgrew herself confirmed it a couple of years ago and admitted she handled things poorly. Huh, that's certainly interesting. Also had no idea Ryan dated Braga for awhile. I do think Seven was unnecessarily sexed up, though, mostly with the skintight catsuits. It was a weird juxtaposition with Seven's personality, too. But that wasn't Jeri's fault and Kate sounded like a jerk taking it out on her. |
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Post by The Summer of Muskrat XVII on Oct 7, 2019 0:12:21 GMT -5
I cried at the Riker reveal. So did I. I wept like a baby. |
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Post by Limity (BLM) on Oct 7, 2019 0:41:48 GMT -5
Speaking of the backstage Voyager drama, I'll always get a kick out of Ronald D. Moore's one episode tenure after DS9.
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Post by Hit Girl on Oct 7, 2019 14:23:21 GMT -5
Voyager was the weakest of the TNG era shows, because it betrayed its otherwise good concept, which was one of the reasons Ronald Moore felt disillusioned by it, and rightly so. But, it's still a million times better than anything that came after it.
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Post by The Captain on Oct 8, 2019 15:25:19 GMT -5
Interesting scenario: If Ronald D. Moore didn't get shafted by the Trek people for Voyager, we probably would've never gotten the Battlestar Galactica reboot.
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Oct 26, 2019 19:20:54 GMT -5
First look at the Starfleet uniforms for the show:   |
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Post by The Summer of Muskrat XVII on Oct 26, 2019 19:49:54 GMT -5
First look at the Starfleet uniforms for the show: Hope it looks better on the show, doesn’t look bad on the comic cover, but something about it isn’t working for me. Can’t quite put my finger on it |
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CMWaters
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Post by CMWaters on Oct 26, 2019 19:52:40 GMT -5
I kind of like it. Less pieces than the early DS9 and all Voyager as well as the TNG Movies and later DS9 uniforms. However, this is more likely the style for the Admiralty uniform. I'd have to see the Captain and lower uniform to compare. Though I'm guessing the only real difference is the non-Admiral uniforms don't have the gold stripes like this one does (and of course, the division color difference). Hope it looks better on the show, doesn’t look bad on the comic cover, but something about it isn’t working for me. Can’t quite put my finger on it Might be the angle and the lighting. Though with it being a two piece like we see, I'm guessing "The Picard Maneuver" is not going to be a regular thing on the show. |
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Post by The Captain on Oct 26, 2019 20:09:38 GMT -5
Comic looks like it's a throwback to when Picard was an active admiral, especially as it's using the DS9/VGR/TNG movie communication pin and trailer footage of current day Starfleet officers shows them wearing something similar to the the "All Good Things" insignia for their comm pins. Flag officers also wear different uniforms from regular officers.
And judging by the pips on each side of his collar (THERE ARE FOUR PIPS!), Picard was a full admiral when he retired as opposed to vice admiral (three pips) or rear admiral (two pips).
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Oct 26, 2019 20:22:13 GMT -5
And judging by the pips on each side of his collar (THERE ARE FOUR PIPS!), Picard was a full admiral when he retired as opposed to vice admiral (three pips) or rear admiral (two pips). Kirk would be so disappointed in him. |
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CMWaters
Ozymandius
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Post by CMWaters on Oct 26, 2019 20:22:54 GMT -5
Comic looks like it's a throwback to when Picard was an active admiral, especially as it's using the DS9/VGR/TNG movie communication pin and trailer footage of current day Starfleet officers shows them wearing something similar to the the "All Good Things" insignia for their comm pins. Flag officers also wear different uniforms from regular officers. And judging by the pips on each side of his collar (THERE ARE FOUR PIPS!), Picard was a full admiral when he retired as opposed to vice admiral (three pips) or rear admiral (two pips). Random aside about the comm badges, but I kinda liked the ones that were used in the TNG episode "Future Imperfect" and would have liked to have seen them made into a proper thing in the future of Trek series.  |
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CMWaters
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Post by CMWaters on Oct 26, 2019 20:24:24 GMT -5
And judging by the pips on each side of his collar (THERE ARE FOUR PIPS!), Picard was a full admiral when he retired as opposed to vice admiral (three pips) or rear admiral (two pips). Kirk would be so disappointed in him. Kirk never met Janeway, and doesn't know that Picard needed to get promoted fast to balance out her rule. |
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Post by The Captain on Oct 26, 2019 20:40:51 GMT -5
Comic looks like it's a throwback to when Picard was an active admiral, especially as it's using the DS9/VGR/TNG movie communication pin and trailer footage of current day Starfleet officers shows them wearing something similar to the the "All Good Things" insignia for their comm pins. Flag officers also wear different uniforms from regular officers. And judging by the pips on each side of his collar (THERE ARE FOUR PIPS!), Picard was a full admiral when he retired as opposed to vice admiral (three pips) or rear admiral (two pips). Random aside about the comm badges, but I kinda liked the ones that were used in the TNG episode "Future Imperfect" and would have liked to have seen them made into a proper thing in the future of Trek series. I do like how they took the concept of combining the communication pin with rank insignia from that episode for Discovery at least. |
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Post by Hit Girl on Oct 27, 2019 15:34:52 GMT -5
First look at the Starfleet uniforms for the show: Awful. Too busy and cluttered. |
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